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What makes a Church IFB?


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Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

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4 hours ago, mattbennett said:

Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

I guess because the "I" stands for Independent.

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I guess since I spent so much time in Alaska I was out of the "mainstream" all those years, with the exception of missionaries and other pastors who came to hold special services for our church.

I said that simply because I have never heard the term "IFB". In the Alaska churches it was always "Independent Baptist"
The first I ever heard of IFB was when I joined this message board. I say all of this so that folks understand where I'm coming from and why.

I would define "Independent Baptist" as simply Independent from any control outside of the local church, to include any conventions, associations, fellowships, or control by any other church.

If I had to define IFB at this late hour of my Christian life I would have to define it this way:

1. The Independent part would be; Independent of any control outside of the local church an individual belongs to.

2. The "fundamental" part would be; a local church that holds strictly to the teaching and doctrines put forth by Jesus Christ, His Apostles and the first church that He instituted, as inspired by His Holy Spirit and found exclusively in His Word.

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29 minutes ago, Jim_Alaska said:

2. The "fundamental" part would be; a local church that holds strictly to ALL the teaching and doctrines put forth by Jesus Christ, His Apostles and the first church that He instituted, as inspired by His Holy Spirit and found exclusively in His Word.

Emphasis on ALL is mine.  Amen, Brother Jim!

Today's contemporary rock-n-roll churches are not of God but of the devil.  They do not strive to hold to ALL doctrine and teachings of Christ.  They pick and choose to justify their loves in this world.

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IFB churches formed around a hundred years ago by those who sought to remove themselves from the evangelical churches which were drifting. Originally "fundamental" pertained to the five fundamentals of the faith:

The virgin birth and deity of Jesus

The substitutionary death of Jesus

The resurrection of Jesus Christ

The verbal inspiration of the Scriptures

The second coming of Christ

Those are the pillars IFB churches were built upon. Being independent, IFB churches have always had their differences whether in slight matters or more important areas. Rather naturally, over the course of time and with the expansion of more and more IFB churches there grew to be more differences which has brought about various levels of division between IFBs.

For some time now there have been various "camps" within IFB circles and some of these fissures have grown.

Some above have mentioned CCM, doctrine and other factors and these are areas which not all IFB churches agree upon and this is causing more splits and such.

When looking at IFB churches a person really needs to check out the church, the pastor, their positions and such before a person can really know just exactly where they stand because simply having an IFB name doesn't give that answer.

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IFB, stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

Independent means the church is autonomous and independent, not being controlled by a denominational body or hierarchy or headquarters.

Fundamental means believing in the fundamental doctrines, like Deity of Christ, Inspiration of Scriptures, Salvation by Faith alone, Redemption through Christ's Blood, Second Coming of Christ.

Baptists refers to Baptist Doctrine, which would be Believers Baptism only as opposed to Infant Baptism, Baptism by immersion as opposed to sprinkling or pouring. Some would add the doctrines of Two ordinances, Baptism and Lord's Supper, Two Offices Pastor/Elder/Overseer/Bishop and Deacon, the Doctrine of the Priesthood of the Believer.

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IFB used to also stand for the premillennial return of Christ, the catching away of the Church, IE the rapture. Until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and the reformers.

In addition it used to stand for the prayerful power of the Spirit in witnessing until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and their easy, repent-less gospel and the calvinistic apostasy of the reformers.

Now they just say the second coming and they just say whosoever will 1-2-3 repeat after me.

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

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2 hours ago, Jordan Kurecki said:

IFB, stands for Independent Fundamental Baptist.

 

Independent means the church is autonomous and independent, not being controlled by a denominational body or hierarchy or headquarters.

Fundamental means believing in the fundamental doctrines, like Deity of Christ, Inspiration of Scriptures, Salvation by Faith alone, Redemption through Christ's Blood, Second Coming of Christ.

Baptists refers to Baptist Doctrine, which would be Believers Baptism only as opposed to Infant Baptism, Baptism by immersion as opposed to sprinkling or pouring. Some would add the doctrines of Two ordinances, Baptism and Lord's Supper, Two Offices Pastor/Elder/Overseer/Bishop and Deacon, the Doctrine of the Priesthood of the Believer.

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

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1 hour ago, beameup said:

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

Problem is, the Jesus that the Catholics embrace and teach is one whose mother is a perpetual virgin and is the queen of heaven who allegedly hears and answers their prayers.

 

of course, their Jesus is not the Jesus that can save..

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22 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

 

of course, their Jesus is not the Jesus that can save..

There are some true believers in the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.  Jesus is Jesus.  There are is an atrocious amount of false-teaching here in the P.I. (yes, even among some IFB churches).  Any deviation from the Pauline Gospel of Grace (through Faith, without Works) is false-teaching. Apostasy was already prevalent when the Holy Spirit inspired the "Gentile Apostle" Paul to write his Epistles...

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2 hours ago, beameup said:

There are some true believers in the Catholic Church here in the Philippines.  Jesus is Jesus.  There are is an atrocious amount of false-teaching here in the P.I. (yes, even among some IFB churches).  Any deviation from the Pauline Gospel of Grace (through Faith, without Works) is false-teaching. Apostasy was already prevalent when the Holy Spirit inspired the "Gentile Apostle" Paul to write his Epistles...

Saved in the Catholic church?  If they never come out of that den of iniquity and idolatry, I highly doubt the authenticity of their Salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

It appears that if one does not separate from idolatry and idolaters, one will not be received by the Father and will not be a son or daughter.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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3 minutes ago, Standing Firm In Christ said:

Saved in the Catholic church?  If they never come out of that den of iniquity and idolatry, I highly doubt the authenticity of their Salvation.

2 Corinthians 6:17 (KJV) 17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean [thing]; and I will receive you,

2 Corinthians 6:18 (KJV) 18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

 

It appears that if one does not separate from idolatry and idolaters, one will not be received by the Father and will not be a son or daughter.

The Filipino Culture's "foundation" is derived from Medieval Spanish-Catholicism.  The entire culture is virtually built around this.  Think of it as the dilemma that a Jew faces when he/she becomes a "Christian" (believer in Yeshua Messiah).  Often the "family" of a Jew will hold a "funeral" for that member, and will consider them as good as dead.  You have to actually LIVE in and deeply STUDY the Philippines to understand this.  

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10 hours ago, wretched said:

IFB used to also stand for the premillennial return of Christ, the catching away of the Church, IE the rapture. Until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and the reformers.

In addition it used to stand for the prayerful power of the Spirit in witnessing until the infiltration of the emerging rock n roll churches and their easy, repent-less gospel and the calvinistic apostasy of the reformers.

Now they just say the second coming and they just say whosoever will 1-2-3 repeat after me.

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

So sad

The reformation was prophesied in Rev 10.  It was a mighty work of God that broke the power of the Catholic church.

Verse 2  The first thing we see is a little book.  About the time of the reformation printing presses were invented and books were much reduced in size, especially the Word Of God.  From that we notice that the reformers were responsible for translating the scripture into vernacular languages, Luther into German, Olivetan with the help of Calvin into French, various reformers, ending with King James into English, and others into Dutch, various Scandinavian languages etc.

Verses 3,4.  The next thing I notice is that the angel tells John acting for the church, to ignore the thunders from the seven hills of Rome, Papal Bulls etc. Remember that when he received the Papal Bull of excommunication, he was shocked as he thought the Pope was head of the church, and no doubt he went and prayed about i and studied the scripture futher.  Some month later, he burnt the Papal  Bull , declaring it to be the execrable bull of Antichrist.  he coiuld not have said that unless it was revealed to him from the scriptures. Along with that he burnt the canons and laws of the RCC.  At the same time he excommunicated the Pope. A complete fulfillment of those verses.

Verses 8-10 They had to inwardly digest the Word of God and this resulted in a revival of gospel preaching in

Verse 11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The gospel was preached again "before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."  From that time Luther rejected all the honours of the RCC and just claimed the title of Evangelist.

Chapter 11 verses 1-2, Again we see the excommunication of those who refused to come out of the RCC.
 

I repeat, the reformation was a mighty work of God. One might say the greatest revival of all time.  

 

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6 hours ago, beameup said:

The Filipino Culture's "foundation" is derived from Medieval Spanish-Catholicism.  The entire culture is virtually built around this.  Think of it as the dilemma that a Jew faces when he/she becomes a "Christian" (believer in Yeshua Messiah).  Often the "family" of a Jew will hold a "funeral" for that member, and will consider them as good as dead.  You have to actually LIVE in and deeply STUDY the Philippines to understand this.  

But the Jew comes out of that culture into the church.  I knew a Jew around here who became a Christian and his family held a funeral for him He became a member of the church.  After his demise I heard that later he and his parents were reconciled but he never told me that.  I was speaking to him once and he mentioned the dead sea scrolls.  He had some prints of them in the notes in the rear of his bible, and he translated one for me. It was more or less word for word with the KJV.

 

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

So sad

The reformation was prophesied in Rev 10.  It was a mighty work of God that broke the power of the Catholic church.

Verse 2  The first thing we see is a little book.  About the time of the reformation printing presses were invented and books were much reduced in size, especially the Word Of God.  From that we notice that the reformers were responsible for translating the scripture into vernacular languages, Luther into German, Olivetan with the help of Calvin into French, various reformers, ending with King James into English, and others into Dutch, various Scandinavian languages etc.

Verses 3,4.  The next thing I notice is that the angel tells John acting for the church, to ignore the thunders from the seven hills of Rome, Papal Bulls etc. Remember that when he received the Papal Bull of excommunication, he was shocked as he thought the Pope was head of the church, and no doubt he went and prayed about i and studied the scripture futher.  Some month later, he burnt the Papal  Bull , declaring it to be the execrable bull of Antichrist.  he coiuld not have said that unless it was revealed to him from the scriptures. Along with that he burnt the canons and laws of the RCC.  At the same time he excommunicated the Pope. A complete fulfillment of those verses.

Verses 8-10 They had to inwardly digest the Word of God and this resulted in a revival of gospel preaching in

Verse 11  And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.

The gospel was preached again "before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."  From that time Luther rejected all the honours of the RCC and just claimed the title of Evangelist.

Chapter 11 verses 1-2, Again we see the excommunication of those who refused to come out of the RCC.
 

I repeat, the reformation was a mighty work of God. One might say the greatest revival of all time.  

 

One who is completely WRONG might say this Invicta. The actual reality is that reformers fail to understand that the real Church DID exist from the 3rd through the 15th centuries. Christ's church was never, ever under the bondage of satan's false church. A political revolution perhaps, a revival - hardly.

All the reformation really did was take man worship from the pope and his priests to protestant heroes whom are questionable from a Bible standpoint at best. Even after this reformation, the real church remained persecuted by these protestants. Protestants have been from their beginnings until now simply the religious lost, they just don't want to worship a man in a dress, they prefer to worship men in robes.

A real Christian needs no human hero, only Christ. Burn your hero books friend and stick to the Bible

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12 hours ago, beameup said:

Could you guide us to Paul's Epistles where he informs us (the Body of Christ) that we are "Priests"?

BTW: I'm in an 85% Catholic country in Asia, and I can assure you that they pretty much agree with the IFB "beliefs" that have been noted in this post.  Their "foundational" scriptures are "the teachings of Jesus" found in the Four Gospels (most notably the "Sermon on the Mount").

What I mean by that, is that the believer does not need to go through a priest to get to God, because in one of the epistles to Timothy, Paul states that Christ is the only mediator between God and man.

The idea is that each believer has access to God through Jesus Christ, there is no need for any priesthood such as what the Catholic Church. has. I can pray directly to God through Jesus Christ, I Don't have to go though a clergy man, or Mary or some dead Saint. I can have my prayers directly go to God through the Lord Jesus Christ. This doctrine is taught clearly in the scriptures.

I think the Doctrine is sometimes called the "Universal Priesthood of every believer"

Edited by Jordan Kurecki
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6 hours ago, wretched said:

One who is completely WRONG might say this Invicta. The actual reality is that reformers fail to understand that the real Church DID exist from the 3rd through the 15th centuries. Christ's church was never, ever under the bondage of satan's false church. A political revolution perhaps, a revival - hardly.

All the reformation really did was take man worship from the pope and his priests to protestant heroes whom are questionable from a Bible standpoint at best. Even after this reformation, the real church remained persecuted by these protestants. Protestants have been from their beginnings until now simply the religious lost, they just don't want to worship a man in a dress, they prefer to worship men in robes.

A real Christian needs no human hero, only Christ. Burn your hero books friend and stick to the Bible

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Edited by Invicta
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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Even if the USA were Anglo it would still be under Romish rule as without the Reformation Rome would have dominated England and whatever colonies she put forth.

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1 hour ago, Invicta said:

I don't have hero books, but I do know that if it wasn't for the Reformation, there would be no USA today   It would be just another Hispanic state ruled from Rome..

Yes, yes...on that vein, you and I could have been born starving black babies in Africa and wouldn't be on a forum.

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21 hours ago, wretched said:

Nowadays finding an IFB church that resembles anything in the Book of Acts is like finding a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow.

I just returned home from my pot of gold where we heard the gospel preached from one of our beloved missionaries and sweet sweet fellowship with the saints afterwards at dinner.  Thank you Lord for my New Testament Church!

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5 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

I just returned home from my pot of gold where we heard the gospel preached from one of our beloved missionaries and sweet sweet fellowship with the saints afterwards at dinner.  Thank you Lord for my New Testament Church!

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

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1 hour ago, wretched said:

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

I know of a few churches in other countries like this but none in America.

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56 minutes ago, wretched said:

That sounds great it really does. So tomorrow you will be back after work with your whole family for more fellowship and Bible study and going out witnessing house to house and then again every other day of the week, correct. All your income over your family basic necessities will be donated to the other members that have need too, correct?

I didn't think so.

Are you so foolish to think that the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem operated exactly in that manner all throughout its existence?

The saints at our local church are very generous.  They satisfied my family's every need when I was hospitalized.  They/we give sacrificially to our members and ministries and missionaries and church plants.  Our men donate their time, talents and money at least 1 Saturday per month helping people of the community in need, such as new roofs, car engines, clearing land, etc.  Well, it wouldn't be fair to say it is only the men, the wives and children are there too.  Over 31 missions around the world count on and receive from our storehouse abundantly, and they too plant churches and help the needy.  The members gave sacrificially to replace our old and tired piano with one costing more than my annual salary.  Then sold the old one for more than my car is worth by 3X!  The members give sacrificially of their time and talents in our very own K-12 School and large bus ministry.  Our church has set a different schedule when it comes to uniting, as our membership covers a much larger area.  And her saints love to unite for Sunday School, Morning Service and Bible Study twice a week.  They love it so much that attendance for the evening services differs by only about 15%.  Our choir makes beautiful sounds and our church is blessed with many beautiful voices for singing unto the Lord and nearly as many it seems accomplished pianists.  Their singing never fails to impart a smile and help set my thoughts on things on high.  We are not a mega church, just a small country church of probably less than 500 souls.

The members of our local, visible, New Testament Church know and live the promise of Luke 6:38:

“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” 

 

So yes, they are like the members of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, except we have cars, air conditioning, probably more horses and livestock, and humbly stand on their shoulders and strive to follow their examples of faith.

If you ever come down to Florida's Treasure Coast, stop on by and experience a biblical, New Testament Church of the kind that Jesus Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry. 

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On ‎2016‎-‎01‎-‎09 at 8:15 AM, mattbennett said:

Hi all, I am not trying to start any disagreement, but this is something that I have struggled with for a while. What really make a church IFB? It seems that there are a lot of churches that take very different posisitions on a lot of issues and still consider themselves IFB. Your thoughts are appreciated. 

Seeing as there isn't truly an agreement on what the Fundamentals are today, basically what makes an IFB is them simply calling themselves one.  In my area we don't have strictly IFB, we are Independent Fundamental Missionary Baptists, as we have an emphasis on missions and evangelization -- each one supports missions and missionaries as well as give out tracts and some even street preach.  In our area, to be considered Fundamental you must believe in the Trinity, Christ's virgin birth, sinless life, death, burial and resurrection, believer baptism, literal 7 day creation, KJV only and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint.

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32 minutes ago, trapperhoney said:

.  In our area, to be considered Fundamental you must believe in the Trinity, Christ's virgin birth, sinless life, death, burial and resurrection, believer baptism, literal 7 day creation, KJV only and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint.

That is exactly what the Brethren used to teach when I was with them, except that some assemblies were not KJV only, some were.  The only onethat remains near here still is.

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13 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Are you so foolish to think that the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem operated exactly in that manner all throughout its existence?

The saints at our local church are very generous.  They satisfied my family's every need when I was hospitalized.  They/we give sacrificially to our members and ministries and missionaries and church plants.  Our men donate their time, talents and money at least 1 Saturday per month helping people of the community in need, such as new roofs, car engines, clearing land, etc.  Well, it wouldn't be fair to say it is only the men, the wives and children are there too.  Over 31 missions around the world count on and receive from our storehouse abundantly, and they too plant churches and help the needy.  The members gave sacrificially to replace our old and tired piano with one costing more than my annual salary.  Then sold the old one for more than my car is worth by 3X!  The members give sacrificially of their time and talents in our very own K-12 School and large bus ministry.  Our church has set a different schedule when it comes to uniting, as our membership covers a much larger area.  And her saints love to unite for Sunday School, Morning Service and Bible Study twice a week.  They love it so much that attendance for the evening services differs by only about 15%.  Our choir makes beautiful sounds and our church is blessed with many beautiful voices for singing unto the Lord and nearly as many it seems accomplished pianists.  Their singing never fails to impart a smile and help set my thoughts on things on high.  We are not a mega church, just a small country church of probably less than 500 souls.

The members of our local, visible, New Testament Church know and live the promise of Luke 6:38:

“Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.” 

 

So yes, they are like the members of the First Baptist Church of Jerusalem, except we have cars, air conditioning, probably more horses and livestock, and humbly stand on their shoulders and strive to follow their examples of faith.

If you ever come down to Florida's Treasure Coast, stop on by and experience a biblical, New Testament Church of the kind that Jesus Christ built and died for during his earthly ministry. 

Yes but I am also foolish enough to realize that the example in Acts was put there for a reason. God did not provide it with qualifiers, this is how His Church MUST be else it become the last days lacodicean mess it is now regardless of how many lovely voices are in the choir. I am sure it is all quite nice.

You are so right about how that the Church in Jerusalem must have changed over time. I am certain that it held firmly all the way up until satan installed the first elder who thought coming there and worshipping everyday was too inconvenient and how would they keep up with the Disney channel and the Jerusalem football league if they were there every day. Next those new elders then thought every man sharing all they he had equally with his brothers so that no one lacked would not allow for covetousness and idolatry so they implemented a fake tax and put a OT name on it so the unlearned would believe in it and lost religious tares would stay faithful to it.

That is exactly how it played out you see, satan wanted to make sure that people never really sold out for Jesus any more because it turned "his" world upside down. So now we have churches full of sell outs but very few whom are "sold out".

Not ragging on you or yours personally and have no reason to except to show you how far off we really are.

If we spent all of our time with the church and studying, praying, witnessing and worshipping; we would not be of the world as we are now. Every second thinking about the world is a second wasted for God and eternity. 6 hours a week with God and 162 hours a week with the world is not the formula God intended for a reason.

Sorry friend, no matter how much the flesh wants to believe it, sport hunting and fishing and golf and football and Disney and the family channel and on and on; are all of the world. It detracts from God just as if it were Hollywood and porn, zero difference. Replaced one worldly activity with another is not separation from the world friend.

Our religious tares are the ones who thought all that up, not God.

6 hours a week won't do it and God knew it but He of course also knew that the unqualified would assume leadership and we would become the lukewarm, increased with goods, having need of nothing church (same passage my name came from btw). Just so you know that I am not above it because I am just as neck deep in it as the rest. I just won't concede that it is ok to be lukewarm. With a sugarcoated gospel that promises one foot remaining the world and preachers who fear having "want" more than God to keep the money coming in and overly administered programs a rolling whether they make a bit of Scriptural sense or not.

What is troubling is why most can't see it? Could it be the tare thing? Could it be too new and still on milk? What, that is the mystery.

If a preacher with guts would actually preach the Acts in church, we would then be able to see the tares as they leave but that will never happen anyway and God knew it would not.

If a true NT church did raise up in 2016 in America, most IFB pastors would label it a cult. That is how far off the course we really are.

 

 

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Wretched, you keep saying "we" but my church is not yours and yours is not mine.  Is my local church perfect?  Absolutely not!  I'm a member of it, a depraved sinner with the old man fighting the new man.  There is liberty on enjoying what God's green earth has to offer.  It is not a sin to go fishing for fun or to spend an afternoon in the woods hunting or camping; the analogy you used is quite silly Wretched.  It would be a sin however, if one stayed home from Sunday (if that if your church's appointed time) services to watch football.  But if the pastor cancels a service so the men can hunt, who are we to judge?  

More often than not, I'm little different than Jonah, I should be preaching to the lost, sharing that glorious gospel, and I don't.  Does that mean I'm out of fellowship with God?  No, I walk with him daily and He graciously answers my prayers.  I should be volunteering more, doing what the Holy Spirit has burdened my heart to do, and I don't.  Instead, I read my bible, read about colonial and victorian americana, make things from wood and stew over my infirmities which I have little control over.  Thankfully, most of the members of my local church are not as wretched as I.

Each time I've taken over a business, there is a flurry of activities over a course of time to get it up to speed.  A missionary spends nearly all waking hours to establish his mission in a foreign land, only resting slightly, when the local men have been trained up to help him.  Work was endless for the settler who staked his claim on virgin land and worked beyond exhaustion to establish his homestead.  A ship's crew works around the clock to get the ship out of the shipyard and into fighting trim, then things settle down into a routine.

The First Baptist Church of Jerusalem was started on the shores of Galilee by Jesus Christ himself.  During his earthly ministry, the members were trained up, the church was fully functioning and on the day of Pentecost, it was commissioned by the Holy Ghost, just as he had done with the alter and tabernacle, just as a US Navy does when a ship officially enters the fleet.

 

As to your points about people not getting it, well many do.  But we're wretched, depraved sinners man.  That's why.  Those hellavisions in our home, those women out there dressed as harlots, all the distractions in our "smart phones" only serve to separate us from God.  It's amazing that local, visible, New Testament Churches still exist.  But that was God's promise wasn't it?  That they would continue to exist, and the gates of hell would never prevail against them.  It's only going to wax worse until Christ's return.  But that doesn't mean revival in your area cannot happen, or revival in my church cannot happen.  That doesn't mean that when my church turns worldly that the Lord won't stand up another NT church in its place.  That doesn't mean we're to rest on our laurels or quit.  Gotta run...    

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3 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Wretched, you keep saying "we" but my church is not yours and yours is not mine.  Is my local church perfect?  Absolutely not!  I'm a member of it, a depraved sinner with the old man fighting the new man.  There is liberty on enjoying what God's green earth has to offer.  It is not a sin to go fishing for fun or to spend an afternoon in the woods hunting or camping; the analogy you used is quite silly Wretched.  It would be a sin however, if one stayed home from Sunday (if that if your church's appointed time) services to watch football.  But if the pastor cancels a service so the men can hunt, who are we to judge?  

More often than not, I'm little different than Jonah, I should be preaching to the lost, sharing that glorious gospel, and I don't.  Does that mean I'm out of fellowship with God?  No, I walk with him daily and He graciously answers my prayers.  I should be volunteering more, doing what the Holy Spirit has burdened my heart to do, and I don't.  Instead, I read my bible, read about colonial and victorian americana, make things from wood and stew over my infirmities which I have little control over.  Thankfully, most of the members of my local church are not as wretched as I.

Each time I've taken over a business, there is a flurry of activities over a course of time to get it up to speed.  A missionary spends nearly all waking hours to establish his mission in a foreign land, only resting slightly, when the local men have been trained up to help him.  Work was endless for the settler who staked his claim on virgin land and worked beyond exhaustion to establish his homestead.  A ship's crew works around the clock to get the ship out of the shipyard and into fighting trim, then things settle down into a routine.

The First Baptist Church of Jerusalem was started on the shores of Galilee by Jesus Christ himself.  During his earthly ministry, the members were trained up, the church was fully functioning and on the day of Pentecost, it was commissioned by the Holy Ghost, just as he had done with the alter and tabernacle, just as a US Navy does when a ship officially enters the fleet.

 

As to your points about people not getting it, well many do.  But we're wretched, depraved sinners man.  That's why.  Those hellavisions in our home, those women out there dressed as harlots, all the distractions in our "smart phones" only serve to separate us from God.  It's amazing that local, visible, New Testament Churches still exist.  But that was God's promise wasn't it?  That they would continue to exist, and the gates of hell would never prevail against them.  It's only going to wax worse until Christ's return.  But that doesn't mean revival in your area cannot happen, or revival in my church cannot happen.  That doesn't mean that when my church turns worldly that the Lord won't stand up another NT church in its place.  That doesn't mean we're to rest on our laurels or quit.  Gotta run...    

That is fair enough and just so you know, none of this is to be one up on anyone. I maybe the worse of the worse in reality but the ideas I put forth on here truly gnaw at me.

I will drop it.

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As we've seen since the creation of America, generally speaking, nearly every generation to come has been more worldly and further away from the things of God.  It's because of man's depravity.  Look at Israel, they were on the doorstep to the promised land and because of their sin, wandered in the desert for forty years, most of the adults never saw it.  All throughout their history, they turned from the Lord to idols and were taken captive, and when they had enough, cried out to God for mercy, he graciously gave it to them and they soon turned away again.  What knuckleheads!  Their children failed to learn from history didn't they?  Same here in America right?  Look at the damage done to America because her children were not grounded enough in God's Word to reject Elvis the Pelvis and send the Beatles back across the Atlantic.  And their offspring were even more depraved, as they made superstars out of Madonna, Dolly Parton and U2.  And if that weren't sick enough, they've turned their churches into rock-n-roll venues that look little different from a 1970s KISS concert.  Depravity my man, depravity.

One of our missionaries has their church next door to a bar and a few doors down from the Catholics.  In the lobby of the popery is a beer stand and cooler, I kid you not!  So as you walk in, you can pick up a brew in each hand and head for the pew!  Sick, ain't it? 

We have to run our homes for God, teach our wives and children about the things of God, nurture their hearts to love God, all attend church, all serve/work in the church, reprove and rebuke sin around us and pray, all day long, pray.  An effort is being made for Christians to serve in public office more at all levels of government.  If enough begin to serve, they can begin to change public policy from being bigoted towards Christians and against God to honoring God and the things of God.  Then we'd see a big change back towards people living according to the scriptures instead of doing what they think is right.

Edited by swathdiver
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Hello "MattBennet" and welcome!  I want to answer your original question with what I have seen (and read) from various IFB churches statements of faith.  First off... independent means 2 things here, they are independent from any council/governing authority with which they do not want to join (for instance the SBC churches have a "convention" to whom they answer to for all doctrine taught in their SBC churches, so if an SBC church pastor wanted to teach on a particular subject, let's say "the rapture", he would first have to make sure he wasn't breaking any rules of the convention to preach on it). But IFB churches want to be free of that governing type of body who could and would likely force them to preach something they didn't believe. And 2nd independent means that not every single IFB is teaching ALL of the same things (I can attest to this as a fact). Here are the things I've seen in person, heard in person, or read in person regarding any IFB church I have heard a sermon from:

SALVATION: personal salvation is by God's grace through faith in Jesus... the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, His death, His blood, and His resurrection from the grave.
 all mankind are born into sin, all have sinned
 each person (individually) must recognize they are a sinner in need of salvation
 each person (individually) must recognize there's no works you can do to "save yourself"
    nor are there any works a person can do to "help" God save you in any way.
 Jesus is the one and only way of salvation, Jesus is the one mediator between God and man
 eternal security of the believer
 when saved we are immediately spiritually placed into the body of Christ

GODHEAD:
 One God revealed in the trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost),
 the virgin birth (and NOT that Mary supposedly remained a virgin)
 not to worship Mary, saints, (nor any other humans or false "gods"/idols) 
 Jesus' eternal Sonship and deity -   born of a virgin, lived a sinless life, died in place of sinners on a cross, rose from the grave victoriously, ascended on high, sits on the Father's right hand, and is the believer's mediator

ESCHATOLOGY:
 the pre-trib rapture
 a 7 year tribulation 
 the second coming of Christ
 the millennial kingdom is a real, physical kingdom which will be on earth, and will last a thousand years
 after the millennial reign, God will create a new heaven and a new earth

VARIOUS DOCTRINE:
 the inerrancy of the Bible- God's word to mankind, written by man who were under direct inspiration of Holy Spirit
 the literal interpretation of the Bible
 don't subscribe to replacement theology, but instead hold to the interpretation that God is not finished with Israel (as Romans 11 and others show), 
 dispensationalist (each seem to be of varying degrees)
 hell is a literal place and not just a "symbolic" place (as others wrongly teach)
 separation from ungodliness in the world (varying degrees)
 autonomy/independence from hierarchy (such as conventions/mandates/creeds/confessions/church councils etc) and the right to remain free from the regulations of such hierarchy
 creationism- God created the heavens and earth in 6 literal days (I should add that some hold to a "gap" theory, but they also believe God created the heavens and earth... I am unsure exactly how they calculate the 6 days of creation?)
 giving by free will (offering), not of necessity (tithing)
 believe the sign gifts were temporal in nature (tongues/prophest, etc have ceased, now remains faith/hope/charity(love)
 baptism (immersion baptism) of believer is of believer's own free will, but is in no way a part of salvation. Also only after salvation (no infant baptism), also that baptism of the Holy Spirit already had been given at time of salvation (not during water baptism)
 model of congregationalism -Pastor is established leader of church but each church member can vote on decisions made in regard to the church
    (also most reject the use of boards and associations, unless it's a large church)
 most reject liberalism and modernism
 male-only pastorate
 Israel- blessed by God - Jews were given the land of Israel (and will see literal culmination of promises given in millennium)


DOCTRINE SOME IFB have/don't have:
 King James Bible version preference 
 Biblicists - not legalists, or religionists, or traditionalists
 Conservative nature in dress, actions, music, etc. - not to act/live as the ungodly
 Evangelization (both personal and support of ministries, church planting)
 Separation from worldiness (another area with MUCH varying degrees, some expect complete separation... no TV, no sports, no worldly music-not contemporary Christian music (as it mimics the world), some reject the use of drums and recorded music,  some require dress codes: eg.  below-knee-length skirts, and the men wear collared shirts, etc. Some keep their social interaction within the IFB circles only 
 Some won't accept a baptism from any other church (some even within the IFB churches- from one church to another)
 Some IFB churches believe that ONLY IFB congregations can be called "churches"
 Some departures from traditional IFB eschatology (such as: a few believe only IFB are the bride of Christ), etc
 Some allow only church members to take part in communion services
 

I'm sure there are many other things I haven't thought of for that list... those are just the ones I thought of right now. 
 

Edited by Ronda
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 What is IFB?

Born again, rejoicing, loving, praying without ceasing, thanks-giving, spirit filled people, rightly dividing the Word of God (King James Bible) and obeying the Great Commission.....or at least should be.    Heaven and earth, and even "IFB" will pass away, but the Word of God will not.

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On ‎2016‎年‎1‎月‎11‎日 at 0:16 AM, trapperhoney said:

Seeing as there isn't truly an agreement on what the Fundamentals are today, basically what makes an IFB is them simply calling themselves one.  In my area we don't have strictly IFB, we are Independent Fundamental Missionary Baptists, as we have an emphasis on missions and evangelization -- each one supports missions and missionaries as well as give out tracts and some even street preach.  In our area, to be considered Fundamental you must believe in the Trinity, Christ's virgin birth, sinless life, death, burial and resurrection, believer baptism, literal 7 day creation, KJV only and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint.

Trapperhoney is correct.

A fundamentalist believes in the literal fulfillment of the book of Revelation. If a person believes in the "Historical" view of Revelation, or that the events are allegorical, symbolic or otherwise not literal, or an A-millenialist, than he is not a fundamentalist.

Furthermore, as Tapperhoney stated, "and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint." That statement is also correct. A person, or church, or organization, or some internet theologian, who does not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture and the pre-millenialist viewpoint, is not a fundamentalist.

When an individual, or a church, or a school, disbelieves in the the literal viewpoint of the Book or Revelation, or the pre-tribulation rapture, or the pre-millenial coming of Christ, than he is not a true fundamentalist.

 

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On 18/01/2016 at 11:10 AM, Alan said:

Trapperhoney is correct.

A fundamentalist believes in the literal fulfillment of the book of Revelation. If a person believes in the "Historical" view of Revelation, or that the events are allegorical, symbolic or otherwise not literal, or an A-millenialist, than he is not a fundamentalist.

Furthermore, as Tapperhoney stated, "and Dispensationalism from the pre-mil, pre-trib standpoint." That statement is also correct. A person, or church, or organization, or some internet theologian, who does not believe in the pre-tribulation rapture and the pre-millenialist viewpoint, is not a fundamentalist.

When an individual, or a church, or a school, disbelieves in the the literal viewpoint of the Book or Revelation, or the pre-tribulation rapture, or the pre-millenial coming of Christ, than he is not a true fundamentalist.

 

The literal fulfillment is the one the author intended it to be.  If that was by signs or symbols then that is a literal fulfillment. As Rev 1:1 says it was signified, i.e. given by signs or as other scriptures say "in figure" any interpretation other than that is not fundamentalist.

Edited by Invicta
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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

The literal fulfillment is the one the author intended it to be.  If that was by signs or symbols then that is a literal fulfillment. As Rev 1:1 says it was signified, i.e. given by signs or as other scriptures say "in figure" any interpretation other than that is not fundamentalist.

That statement is a partial truth that is used to twist the literal interpretation of the book of Revelation. And, to try and  make the words in the book of Revelation to mean symbols of the figment of somebodys imagination or false teaching. Invicta, again, you take a partial meaning of a word to take away the real meaning of the word to twist the interpretation of the scriptures.

The Noah Webster 1828 Dictionary in the meaning of Signify says;

1. To make known something, either by signs or words; to express or communicate to another any idea, thought, wish, purpose of command,either by words, by a nod, wink, gesture, signal, orother sign. A man signifies his mind by his voice or by written characters; he may signify his mind by his mind by a nod or other notion, provided the person to whom he directs it, uderstands what it is intended by it.

2. To make known; to declare.

The Lord Jesus signified His words to the apostle John to give us the prophectic (future), events of the book of Revelation that are the literal fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets. John further signified the literal events of the future as depicted in the book of Revelation in writing using characters: i.e., printed words.

False teachers, in order to promote their false teaching, will only give a partital meaning of a word in order to twist, or take away, the true meaning of the scriptures. One of the reasons why so many people are confused with the literal events taking place in the book of Revelation is the many false teachers who take away the meanings of words and make them symbolic or signs.

 

 

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