How to Square Eternal Hell with Eternal Love?

[questioning]

How can we truly believe that God is a God of love, mercy and grace when He sentences a helpless and enslaved person to an eternity of the worst punishment there is with no hope of parole or ever getting out?

The Bible states that God is love. The Bible states that God is both longsuffering and full of mercy ... that His mercy endures forever. The Bible states that God desires that NONE should perish and that ALL should come to repentance. However, the Bible also declares that there is a hell (followed by the lake of fire) and that all who go there will never be released and that the smoke of their torment arises before God forever. Now, I realize that God is more than love, mercy and grace. There are also the aspects of holiness, justice, judgment, wrath and many other attributes. However, God, according to the Scriptures, is infinitely all of these things all at once. How is the love of God balanced (if you will) against His wrath? How is His mercy balanced against His holiness? How is grace balanced against justice and judgment?

How can God, in good conscience, punish a man or woman for all of eternity ... and for what? According to the Bible, the last man, Jesus, paid for the sin of Adam. All that is left is to accept the Messiah and His finished work on the cross. Those that reject Him find that they will be punished eternally. Therefore, mankind will go to eternal punishment because, ultimately, they rejected the One, True God (as we see in Romans 1 and other passages of the Bible).

Human beings, as flawed as we are, do not even want to see a dog suffer for very long (even a bad dog that has harmed people) and will put it out of its misery. We do not go to great lengths to ensure that that dog lives on for a long period of time and suffers to the fullest extent of suffering. And, yet, our "loving" God goes far beyond that and takes people who do not accept Christ and forces them to bow the knee to Him before casting them away to a torment unparalleled for the pain it can cause and then ensures that those who find themselves there will be there, aware of their awful punishment for an infinite amount of time.

In the mean time, those that do not reject this God will find the exact opposite: love, joy, peace and no suffering whatsoever. Quite the cosmic balance, don't you think?

If I were to murder one of my children, no one would believe that I love them. But God says He loves He loves the world, casts the vast majority of them into hell (destined for the lake of fire) and we still say He is loving. Is this not a double standard?

Oh, and if you think that God is grieving over casting these souls into hell,I would encourage you to read sections of the Bible like Psalm 2 (God laughs at His human enemies as He plans their destruction).

[zealyouthguy]

If I were to murder one of my children, no one would believe that I love them. But God says He loves He loves the world, casts the vast majority of them into hell (destined for the lake of fire) and we still say He is loving. Is this not a double standard?

No it's not, but it's not a double standard, because you have built a straw man argument. You've set up conditions, situations and predicaments, and then (illogically) assume that those are right and then attempt to knock them down.

First God is Love meaning that love is God. That isn't God's only characteristic. God is holy, God is righteous, God is eternal, God is truth, God is life, and a plethora of other things. Included in these aspects of God's character is the fact that God is just.

By you comparing God condemning someone to hell, to murder, you have been unjust. At least, if you truly have put as much thought into these questions as I hope you have before making such an accusation.

See, when we sin, it affects others, it affects ourself and it affects God. Let's just take the sin of murder for now. When we murder, we are usurping God's authority, substituting our own, and sinning against a fellow man.

So let's switch up your little visual a bit, to better represent (although being that we are sinful men, I am sure it won't be an exact representation, but far better than "murdering your child") the situation.

You are a judge. You've laid down the law that murdering is wrong. People are expected to live by this law. This law is a good and just law, because we don't have the right to murder and take someone's life. The penalty for the broken law is death. Your son, who you love, and who you've taught and tried to raise better than that, breaks this law. He murders, your daughter. She is innocently murdered by her brother. You, being a just judge, must exact the penalty for this murder. The penalty of death to bring justice to your daughter (perhaps her husband, your wife, her children, etc.). But because you love you son AND your daughter you say... Son, the penalty is death, right at that time, the older brother speaks up and says, Father... I will pay the penalty, I will die for him. And he does. The penalty has been paid, but the murdering son, steps over the body of his brother, who paid for the murder and says... Father, I don't care about his death, I didn't do anything wrong, I refuse my older brother's payment.

How is the judges love diminished for his son, when justice needs to be served? How is justice not given to the sister if the penalty is not paid?

Sin doesn't happen in a bubble, it affects everyone around us.

[Guest Guest]

First God is Love meaning that love is God. That isn't God's only characteristic. God is holy' date=' God is righteous, God is eternal, God is truth, God is life, and a plethora of other things. Included in these aspects of God's character is the fact that God is just.[/quote']


Very well, said...brother! :smile

[Madeline]

People who end up in Eternal Hell end up there because they CHOSE to be there, and chose NOT to REPENT. In the story of Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man neither repented nor chose to ask God for forgiveness, but rather asked to be comforted by someone other than God.

We see other examples of those who CHOSE not to repent and chose to be separated from God. These wicked men and women love their sinful lives and detest the righteousness of GOD ALMIGHTY.

Revelation 2:21 - And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Revelation 9:20 - And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Revelation 16:9 - And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Revelation 16:11 - And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Instead of giving God the Glory and accepting His free gift of eternal life and repenting of their wicked ways...they BLASPHEME the God of the universe who gave them LIFE.

All those who end up in eternal fire end up there because they CHOSE to be there.

Revelation 22:17 - And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Love,
Madeline

[Guest Guest]

God's ways are not our ways, nor His thoughts our thoughts. He can be pure love and pure hatred; pure grace and pure wrath, all at once. We cannot, since we are but frail humans. God is perfect and just and holy, which are things that we cannot be. It's important not to attribute our own weaknesses to God when it comes to these things. God can hate sinners (Ps. 5:5) and yet love the world as a whole at the same time. (Notice that John 3:16 IS in the past tense though) We have to keep things in perspective. :smile

[Guest Guest]

This is a wonderful scripture to me...

Proverbs 26:10...The great God that formed all things both rewardeth the fool, and rewardeth transgressors. KJV 1611 AV.


Now, how AWESOME is that! :thumb

[Anon]

I believe we in the world today are so used to sin that we fail to see the seriousness of it. Hell actually is an object lesson to the seriousness of sin, the hatred that God has for it. He created Hell for Satan and his angels...NOT humans. But when humans chose to follow Satan, they will naturally have to join Satan in his final "home".

God makes it simple...in the OT, the object lesson for salvation was the serpent Moses lifted up in the wilderness, with the instruction to simply "look and live". We only have to do that today for salvation too. However to not do that, is to embrace the sin God hates, and we remain the children of Satan, and must go to where Satan must go someday.

Sin is MUCH worse than any of us think it is, really. Sin put Jesus on the cross...I don't think God takes very kindly to it.

[deafnva77]

kitagrl, your post made me think of some of people I know...

They say they rather go to hell and party (but of course, they don't believe in hell)

They know very well they are following satan, but they don't care.

[Guest Guest]

I believe we in the world today are so used to sin that we fail to see the seriousness of it. Hell actually is an object lesson to the seriousness of sin, the hatred that God has for it. He created Hell for Satan and his angels...NOT humans. But when humans chose to follow Satan, they will naturally have to join Satan in his final "home".

God makes it simple...in the OT, the object lesson for salvation was the serpent Moses lifted up in the wilderness, with the instruction to simply "look and live". We only have to do that today for salvation too. However to not do that, is to embrace the sin God hates, and we remain the children of Satan, and must go to where Satan must go someday.

Sin is MUCH worse than any of us think it is, really. Sin put Jesus on the cross...I don't think God takes very kindly to it.

kita. I don't take kindly to sin putting Jesus on the cross. I can't even imagine how God feels about it?? Sin is horrible. YES!!! And, we are very used to it, indeed. It is pathetic that we "fail to see the seriousness of it." When people say we are given a second chance in life, I shake my head. What about a million chances?

[HappyChristian]

A loving God sent His Son into a world filled with hatred of God to die for the people of that world, so that those people who hated God could have an opportunity to repent and be saved. That's love, by anyone's standards.

"God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that ALL should come to repentance." God wants all men everywhere to be saved. He won't force them to, though. As has been mentioned, we come to God by choice.

[trc123]

God's chosen, the Israelites did not come when bidden, what makes one think that God will over look the entire Gentile world when they have turned their back on the Son?

Mat 21:33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
Mat 21:34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
Mat 21:35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Mat 21:36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
Mat 21:37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
Mat 21:38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
Mat 21:39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
Mat 21:40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?

[5dumplings@home]

Ezekiel 18:32 says, For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the LORD God: wherefore, turn yourselves and live ye.

[heartstrings]

God is love....period. And Love is kind, true, faithful, unselfish, gracious, all powerful, all knowing, eternal, holy, righteous and just.
Some seem to look at the the word "just"only in a negative light when really, it has a positive side and that side is that God always does what's right. Always. I believe that when every sinner stands before God at the Judgement, each and every soul will realize that God is right. He/she will have no excuse. A person goes to hell, because of WHAT he is; a vile, wicked rebel of unspeakable depravity. No, I've never murdered anyone physically, but I have hated. That made me a murderer. Speaking for myself personally, I deserve to go to Hell right now.

[Danny Carlton]

How can we truly believe that God is a God of love' date=' mercy and grace when He sentences a helpless and enslaved person to an eternity of the worst punishment there is with no hope of parole or ever getting out?[/quote']
At the core of your question is the presumption that a situation we find philosophically unappealing, must therefore be false. That is absurd. Our deilicate emotions do not hold reality hostage. What is, is whether we like it or not.

It is also childish to assume we can understand everything about an omniscient God. When my children were young, we took them to get their blood drawn every three months. They have a congenital condition and must have their hormone levels checked. At that age they had no idea what we were doing and cried furiously when we allowed strangers to poke needles in their arm. There was no way to explain it to them, and no way for them to comprehend why. If we can undertsand that it's possible for an immature person to not comprehend the seemingly bad things thrust upon them by someone in power, then isn't in conceivable that we may be able to comprehend all of what God does, and why?

[BibleBeliever123]

How can we truly believe that God is a God of love, mercy and grace when He sentences a helpless and enslaved person to an eternity of the worst punishment there is with no hope of parole or ever getting out?

The Bible states that God is love. The Bible states that God is both longsuffering and full of mercy ... that His mercy endures forever. The Bible states that God desires that NONE should perish and that ALL should come to repentance. However, the Bible also declares that there is a hell (followed by the lake of fire) and that all who go there will never be released and that the smoke of their torment arises before God forever. Now, I realize that God is more than love, mercy and grace. There are also the aspects of holiness, justice, judgment, wrath and many other attributes. However, God, according to the Scriptures, is infinitely all of these things all at once. How is the love of God balanced (if you will) against His wrath? How is His mercy balanced against His holiness? How is grace balanced against justice and judgment?

How can God, in good conscience, punish a man or woman for all of eternity ... and for what? According to the Bible, the last man, Jesus, paid for the sin of Adam. All that is left is to accept the Messiah and His finished work on the cross. Those that reject Him find that they will be punished eternally. Therefore, mankind will go to eternal punishment because, ultimately, they rejected the One, True God (as we see in Romans 1 and other passages of the Bible).

Human beings, as flawed as we are, do not even want to see a dog suffer for very long (even a bad dog that has harmed people) and will put it out of its misery. We do not go to great lengths to ensure that that dog lives on for a long period of time and suffers to the fullest extent of suffering. And, yet, our "loving" God goes far beyond that and takes people who do not accept Christ and forces them to bow the knee to Him before casting them away to a torment unparalleled for the pain it can cause and then ensures that those who find themselves there will be there, aware of their awful punishment for an infinite amount of time.

In the mean time, those that do not reject this God will find the exact opposite: love, joy, peace and no suffering whatsoever. Quite the cosmic balance, don't you think?

If I were to murder one of my children, no one would believe that I love them. But God says He loves He loves the world, casts the vast majority of them into hell (destined for the lake of fire) and we still say He is loving. Is this not a double standard?

Oh, and if you think that God is grieving over casting these souls into hell,I would encourage you to read sections of the Bible like Psalm 2 (God laughs at His human enemies as He plans their destruction).

All the heathen are God's enemies by their wicked works, they are not His children. You seem to have a very low view of sin.

Romans 8:7
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
(All heathens are friends of the world)



If you saw someone killing an insect, you would have no concern for the insect, because the insect is of little value.
If you saw a someone torturing and killing a cat, you would be concerned, that beast has some value.
If you saw someone kill a child, you would be furious, because the child has much more value than the former two.

The greater the value the greater the offence.

How much more valuable is God?

God is infinte, He deserves all worship and adoration forever. Sin is against an infinitely holy God.

The offence is infinite. Deserving infinite punishment.

Here is a compilation sermon I heard the illustration from http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=16926&forum=35

(I do not endorse everything from that website)


Here is a decent link about your question:

http://www.carm.org/evidence/sendtohell.htm

(I do not endorse everything on this website)


The heathen do not just go to hell for unbelief, but for their other sins as well.

1 Cor 6:9,10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.


Rev 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.


Everyone deserves to be tortured forever for their great sin against God.

If you love what is good you hate what is evil. If you love babies, you hate abortion.
God loves that which is right and therefore hates that which is wrong.

Psa 5:5
5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: thou hatest all workers of iniquity.

Heb 1:8,9
8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.


Until you understand that YOU deserve to be tortured forever in hell for your sins against God, you will not be able to understand God's love.

Luke 19:10
For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost.


Psa 14:1-4
1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.
2The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, and seek God.
3They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
4Have all the workers of iniquity no knowledge? who eat up my people as they eat bread, and call not upon the LORD.


I am pure evil and yet God died for me. The greatest love I can and will ever know.

Rom 5:8
8But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.


I will pray for you.