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The following is a copy and paste of a conversation I had with the female pastor of a Baptist Church on another message forum. I post it to show how far association Baptists are drifting from traditional Baptists. What follows is the actual conbversation.

 

PastorCindyA 

Praying With Color
The First Baptist Church in Gloucester, located at 38 Gloucester Avenue, will begin a 5-week experience combining Lectio Divina and an art component based on the book Praying In Color by Sybil MacBeth. Lectio Divina is a Benedictine model for reading, praying and contemplating Scripture as the living Word of God. Beginning on Thursday, October 8 from 6:30pm-7:30pm we will gather in the church Sanctuary to pray and meditate using paper and colored pencils or pens. All instruction and materials are provided and this experience is free and open to the public. No experience necessary. If you can draw a line and a dot and you are open to the leading of the Spirit, you can participate. Young people who can be meditative for the hour are also welcome. Come and experience the Word in a new way. Please call the church office to sign up. 

Jim Alaska 

So, if I read this right a Baptist Church is going to take instruction from a Roman Catholic Order of Monks regarding reading, praying and contemplating Scripture? Why can't the leadership of this church teach these things from a Baptist doctrinal standpoint without resorting to heretical outside influence? 

PastorCindyA 

Jim, Baptists don't have doctrine. That's why we're Baptists. 

Jim Alaska 

I have been a Baptist preacher and teacher for forty years Cindy. This is certainly new news to me, would you care to elaborate, or at least explain why you said what you said? 

PastorCindyA 

Jim, on this thread, no. This is about an event my church is holding. If you want to debate the meaning of the word "doctrine" and how, as American Baptists, we don't subscribe to any, I would be delighted to do that elsewhere.

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Jim,

Thanks. Oh well, I guess to attact folks to church contemporary christian music (please notice the small 'c' on Christian), is not enough to attract folks to church and now the worldly churches must use crayons and mysticism (in the guise of the Holy Spirit), to attract folks to church. Sounds like a seular business to me.

Sounds like that Baptist Church, if it ever was a Baptist church, has already gone to bed with the, "MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT."

Reminds me of  2 Timothy 3:1 and 5, "This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come... Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away."

And, "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devil." 1 Tmothy 4:1

 

 

Edited by Alan
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Sounds like American Baptist doctrine to me.  I made the mistake of attending an American Baptist affiliated church a number of years ago . . . . yeah sounds a lot like what I experienced.  Their doctrine was pretty much nothing . . . . do what pleases you . . . . as long as it is PC and not biblical.

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A lot of things are wrong with Cindy and the church there as is evidenced in the above conversation. The jumping on the phrase "my church" always causes my eyes to do at least 4 revolutions before the momentum decays. Are there cases of pastors saying "my church" in the same way as "my hammer" ie. It's my personal property, I control it, etc? Certainly, and they're wrong.

However, I believe you'll find in talking to people that most of them (be it pastor or any other member) use it in the same way as "my country" (the one I belong to), "my case" [as in a legal case] (the one I'm responsible for), "my [company owned] Sawzall" (the one I'm utilizing at this time). This is not an improper usage of the possessive.

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A lot of things are wrong with Cindy and the church there as is evidenced in the above conversation. The jumping on the phrase "my church" always causes my eyes to do at least 4 revolutions before the momentum decays. Are there cases of pastors saying "my church" in the same way as "my hammer" ie. It's my personal property, I control it, etc? Certainly, and they're wrong.

However, I believe you'll find in talking to people that most of them (be it pastor or any other member) use it in the same way as "my country" (the one I belong to), "my case" [as in a legal case] (the one I'm responsible for), "my [company owned] Sawzall" (the one I'm utilizing at this time). This is not an improper usage of the possessive.

Yes, I realize its common use as you described...and considered that as her meaning; however, given all of the dialog, the false doctrine promoted, and the lack of biblical discernment regarding the position of a pastor (pastorette), it would appear that it is "her" church. Just my opinion...

Edited to correct my phone's autospell "correction". :nuts:

Also, since I typed the original reply on my phone, I tried to keep it short. I hope I didn't come across as a smart-aleck. That wasn't my intention; forgive me if I did come across that way.

Edited by No Nicolaitans
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I am an American Baptist but not that of the so called Cindy pastor American Baptist.  If they do not have doctrines then they are not baptist at all, but rather just american heretical.  They are total liberals for having a woman as a pastor. There are two American Baptist that I know. My in-law parents when they heard that I was an American Baptist they thought I could be heretical.  Those American Baptist are those of National Baptist Convention, Progressive National Convention, and American Baptist Convention (ABC).  The other  is American Baptist Association (ABA) which I am part of. We have doctrines and we are independent local baptist churches.  I guess most people know this since I am in this Independent Fundamental Baptist forum. 

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We all know what the bible says about female "pastors" (1 Tim 2:12).  A local Methodist church in the area has a female "pastor" and she recently announced she was getting married to... you guessed it... another female! Only ONE parishioner quit going there because of this, the rest (I heard) actually applauded! The evil one/the father of lies has quite a grip on the apostate churches. Sadly, "Baptist" doesn't even mean Baptist anymore. There are even many supposed Independent Fundamental Baptists who are anything but fundamental, and have strayed to false doctrine as well. I agree with many of the sentiments above, and believe that many churches now days are all about pleasing the people with popular opinion rather than sound bible teaching (heaping to themselves teachers having itching ears) I also feel that 2 Tim 3:5 is relevant " Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof"... coloring with crayons and being led by a spirit alright, but not the Holy Spirit. 
 

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On 10/11/2015, 10:47:52, Jim_Alaska said:

The following is a copy and paste of a conversation I had with the female pastor of a Baptist Church on another message forum. I post it to show how far association Baptists are drifting from traditional Baptists. What follows is the actual conbversation.

 

 

 

PastorCindyA 

Praying With Color
The First Baptist Church in Gloucester, located at 38 Gloucester Avenue, will begin a 5-week experience combining Lectio Divina and an art component based on the book Praying In Color by Sybil MacBeth. Lectio Divina is a Benedictine model for reading, praying and contemplating Scripture as the living Word of God. Beginning on Thursday, October 8 from 6:30pm-7:30pm we will gather in the church Sanctuary to pray and meditate using paper and colored pencils or pens. All instruction and materials are provided and this experience is free and open to the public. No experience necessary. If you can draw a line and a dot and you are open to the leading of the Spirit, you can participate. Young people who can be meditative for the hour are also welcome. Come and experience the Word in a new way. Please call the church office to sign up. 

Jim Alaska 

So, if I read this right a Baptist Church is going to take instruction from a Roman Catholic Order of Monks regarding reading, praying and contemplating Scripture? Why can't the leadership of this church teach these things from a Baptist doctrinal standpoint without resorting to heretical outside influence? 

PastorCindyA 

Jim, Baptists don't have doctrine. That's why we're Baptists. 

Jim Alaska 

I have been a Baptist preacher and teacher for forty years Cindy. This is certainly new news to me, would you care to elaborate, or at least explain why you said what you said? 

PastorCindyA 

Jim, on this thread, no. This is about an event my church is holding. If you want to debate the meaning of the word "doctrine" and how, as American Baptists, we don't subscribe to any, I would be delighted to do that elsewhere.

 

 

Yeah......she's a liberal and a female pastor and all that.......

But she was right in her way:

By "doctrine" she meant something like: "a certain enforceable set of standard teachings to which all denominationally affiliated congregations must adhere"...........or, a binding confessional statement.

That's what she meant.  She said, (quite rightly I might add)............ "Baptists don't have doctrine. that's why we're Baptists".

You didn't take her meaning obviously.........but her meaning was Ecclessiological and quite frankly, she was right on.

You doubled-down with this:

I have been a Baptist preacher and teacher for forty years Cindy. This is certainly new news to me, would you care to elaborate, or at least explain why you said what you said? 

She (rather graciously I think) simply responded:

Jim, on this thread, no. This is about an event my church is holding. If you want to debate the meaning of the word "doctrine" and how, as American Baptists, we don't subscribe to any, I would be delighted to do that elsewhere.

You were speaking right past her...................

And didn't bother with trying to understand what she meant.

Because her meaning was obvious............and sound from a traditionally "Baptist" perspective.  What she meant was essentially that she is non-confessional.......................(just like you).

I understand and agree with you, that women shouldn't be pastors of congregations.  But, they aren't all idiots.  Some of them genuinely (and wrongly) disagree and are sometimes also otherwise Godly Christians with bad ideas.  But you seem to me simply unable to have seen past the obvious gender issue and knee-jerked into failing to listen to anything she said.

If you could look past her skirt and understood what she meant by the (granted imperfectly clear) phrase:

Baptists don't have doctrine. That's why we're Baptists.  

You might have responded differently.

 

 

Edited by Heir of Salvation
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On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎4‎:‎17‎:‎16‎, Standing Firm In Christ said:

The AB's are actually BiNO's. (Baptist in Name Only)

 

not able to consume either the full meat of the Word, or the sincere milk, they eat their world-processed Pablum and play with their crayons.

Maybe they are American Liberal Baptists In Name Only...ALBINO'sB)

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8 hours ago, Heir of Salvation said:

Yeah......she's a liberal and a female pastor and all that.......

But she was right in her way:

By "doctrine" she meant something like: "a certain enforceable set of standard teachings to which all denominationally affiliated congregations must adhere"...........or, a binding confessional statement.

That's what she meant.  She said, (quite rightly I might add)............ "Baptists don't have doctrine. that's why we're Baptists".

You didn't take her meaning obviously.........but her meaning was Ecclessiological and quite frankly, she was right on.

You doubled-down with this:

I have been a Baptist preacher and teacher for forty years Cindy. This is certainly new news to me, would you care to elaborate, or at least explain why you said what you said? 

She (rather graciously I think) simply responded:

Jim, on this thread, no. This is about an event my church is holding. If you want to debate the meaning of the word "doctrine" and how, as American Baptists, we don't subscribe to any, I would be delighted to do that elsewhere.

You were speaking right past her...................

And didn't bother with trying to understand what she meant.

Because her meaning was obvious............and sound from a traditionally "Baptist" perspective.  What she meant was essentially that she is non-confessional.......................(just like you).

I understand and agree with you, that women shouldn't be pastors of congregations.  But, they aren't all idiots.  Some of them genuinely (and wrongly) disagree and are sometimes also otherwise Godly Christians with bad ideas.  But you seem to me simply unable to have seen past the obvious gender issue and knee-jerked into failing to listen to anything she said.

If you could look past her skirt and understood what she meant by the (granted imperfectly clear) phrase:

Baptists don't have doctrine. That's why we're Baptists.  

You might have responded differently.

 

 

Nonsense. You said "doctrine" meant;  "a certain enforceable set of standard teachings to which all denominationally affiliated congregations must adhere"...........or, a binding confessional statement.

Might I remind you that in the beginning of the church there were no "denominations." But there was certainly doctrine, which is what true Baptists have held to since the days when Jesus walked the earth. Here is just one example; 2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Her skirt has nothing to do with what I said or believe. Her declaration that "Baptists do not have doctrine" is proof positive that she is not a Baptist and knows nothing of Baptist Distinctives.

I did not look past anything, the woman is a heretick, proven by her claim to be a pastor and confirming her disregard of Scripture with her unscriptural declaration.

You speak of me not being able to see past the gender issue; and why should I when she is Scripturally prohibited from the office she claims by her very gender?

If I had it to do over again I would respond the same way because what I said I know to be the truth for true Baptists.

I find it interesting that you would take the side of a heretical, Scripture denying female imposter, and against a brother in Christ. 

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Nonsense. You said "doctrine" meant;  "a certain enforceable set of standard teachings to which all denominationally affiliated congregations must adhere"...........or, a binding confessional statement.

I did not say that's what "doctrine" meant.....I said that that's what she meant when she said "Baptists dont' have 'doctrine' "

Might I remind you that in the beginning of the church there were no "denominations."

That's what she was talking about.

But there was certainly doctrine,

Yes.  Her choice of words was unfortunate.

Her skirt has nothing to do with what I said or believe.

Sure it does, you demonstrate that when you said:

You speak of me not being able to see past the gender issue; and why should I when she is Scripturally prohibited from the office she claims by her very gender?

 

 

Her declaration that "Baptists do not have doctrine" is proof positive that she is not a Baptist and knows nothing of Baptist Distinctives.

I'd bet you she does.....and if you would have spoken to her about it in another forum as she suggested she might have proven that to you.

I find it interesting that you would take the side of a heretical, Scripture denying female imposter, and against a brother in Christ. 

I don't see it as "taking sides"....against one or the other.  You are more Scripturally sound than she.  But, I've no reason to assume that she isn't also a "sister" in Christ who is merely in error on the issue of female pastors.  Jumping down her throat and calling her a "heretic" will likely only alientate her and cause her to circle the wagons.  That's how I saw it.  It doesn't have to be a "you vs. her" issue.  I'm sorry if it bothers you Jim.  Some women pastors are (I believe) genuine Christians struggling to serve the Lord as best they know.   All of us have been in error at at least some point in our lives, and we all probably are on at least a minor issue here or there.  That doesn't make us "heretics".

Edited by Heir of Salvation
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Read my original post again HOS. I never called her a heretic. I spoke to her of outside heretical teaching. But, if she believes that women can pastor, which she surely does, then she could be termed a heretic.

 

So, you think she knows Baptist doctrine when she misses one of the most important and well known doctrines there is? I don't. Females are forbidden to pastor, even a simple literal reading of Scripture reveals this.

By bringing up the issue of her skirt, which points to me being a bigot, you prove that your argument is with Scripture on the issue of female pastors, not with me.

 

You may ramble on about what she "meant", but it serves no purpose because I said what I meant and meant what I said. I choose to not mince my words when dealing with error and especially from a supposed Baptist, which she claims to be.

 

 Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 
 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 
 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 
 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 

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