Members TheSword Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Given the lack of a reliable systematic theology from a fundamental perspective (of which has come up several times on this forum as well), largely because the people who are capable of writing one are wholly engaged in other ministry or are unwilling to commit themselves to do so, I've decided to explore undertaking the task to write one. It's sure to be an extremely long (years if not decades) and arduous process.I'm of the mind that a good systematic theology should start with Theology Proper (Doctrine of God). Unfortunately it's probably my least favorite one to develop, but it is critical for a foundation. My purpose for this post is to canvas you here on OB for what elements you believe is important to cover in developing this doctrine (e.g. existence of God, attributes of God, etc). Even if I disagree on something, I welcome your contributions!***If you are of the mind that one should not read/write books or that developing a coherent theology is a waste of time, I do not want or need your input. Please do not comment on this thread if you're not going to contribute to the above stated goal of this discussion*** trapperhoney and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted October 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2015 Wow-big subject, even just the start with Theology Proper, as you call it-God. Where does one even start? I guess one thing very few bring up is God's origin, so to speak.So often I hear this question, "Where did God come from?" and of course, it is often spoken in a sarcastic manner, but it is still a question many I think don't consider seriously. Of course, we all know, God didn't "come from" anywhere; God IS. People wonder, What was God doing before he began creation? And the difficulty of that question is that, technically-speaking, there was no 'before creation'. The first thing God created on day 1, after the heaven and the earth, was to separate the light from the dark, day and night, so day 1, the concept of time was created, otherwise, there could be no "day 1". So BEFORE that, there was no time, so there was no before. Only eternity, which is, be definition, timeless.The name "YHWH" or "Jehovah" means "I Am That I AM" This is the name He gives Moses for the people of Israel. He IS. He is self-existent, not subject to anything else. before anything else, God Is. He is outside of time and space; Solomon, speaking in God's wisdom, rightly said, that the heaven of the heavens cannot contain God-any aspect of His glory he has allowed anyone to see, whether Moses at Sinai or the High priest in the Holiest place of the tabernacle and temple, even Isaiah as he saw the Lord on His throne in heaven, it was only the smallest peek, because we cannot receive all that God is. God is the Lawmaker, though, while often working within those laws, is not, Himself, subject to those laws, being better and greater than the sum of them.There's a thimble-full of what I have at the moment. Not even a scratch of the surface. This is the biggest issue with such things as systematic theology: an entire book, a set of books, could be written on just God the Father. But I applaud you for making the effort on it. I look forward to seeing it go forward. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 8, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 Mike, thanks for your inputs. I agree that the self-existence of God is a critically important topic to cover. I'm thinking it fits into the attributes of God along with omnipotence, omniscience, etc. One of the things I like lease about Theology Proper is the necessity of diving into the philosophical side of things, but I suppose that's just the nature of the beast.Any thoughts on the necessity of a section devoted to the names of God, or rather interwoven among the various attributes they reveal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted October 8, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 8, 2015 Mike, thanks for your inputs. I agree that the self-existence of God is a critically important topic to cover. I'm thinking it fits into the attributes of God along with omnipotence, omniscience, etc. One of the things I like lease about Theology Proper is the necessity of diving into the philosophical side of things, but I suppose that's just the nature of the beast.Any thoughts on the necessity of a section devoted to the names of God, or rather interwoven among the various attributes they reveal?I think the names of God, including the titles of God, (Jehovah Sabaoth, more name and title?), should be interwoven with His attributes-maybe an entire section just for that, as each would need a separate explanation, I should think. I am thinking this is going to be a series of books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Pastor Scott Markle Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 I myself have put forth some thought toward writing on just this subject. As such, I would present a general thought -- Do not write a systematic theology from the perspective of human philosophy, but write a systematic theology from the perspective of Biblical revelation. If it is not actually revealed in God's Word, then it is not a theological doctrine that matters unto us (regardless of the human questions that we may want answered).Concerning "Theology Proper" --1. Part 1: The Lord our God - The Infinite God2. Part 2: The Lord our God - The Triune God3. Part 3: The Lord our God - The Sovereign God4. Part 4: The Lord our God - The Holy God5. Part 5: The Lord our God - The Gracious God6. ?????Part 6: The Lord our God - The Personal God(Note: Each of these parts contains a series of chapters/sub-points.) John81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 (edited) Your thoughts are commendable and will be hard to obtain. As Ukulelemike brought out, the subject matter is vast and sometimes incomprehensible due to our limited knowledge and understanding.A good, solid Systematic Theology book written from a fundamental, Bible believing prespective would be a noteworthy task. Due to the complexity of the matter, as you said, it would probably take years of arduous work. Due to the time and desk work involved, most fundamentalists do not have the time necessary to do such a work due to the work in the ministry taking precedence.I would like to add one more attribute of God that is inherent in the nature of God you may consider in your work: The Foreknowledge of God. Apart from the foreknowledege of God as written in Romans, in Isaiah 41:4,42:9 and 43:9, God plainly states that due to His ability to know, and to direct, all events in the future that sets Him apart from all men. Whatever path you choose in your endeavor, I want to commend you for your desire to have a good, sound, Systematic Theology book written by a fundamentalist for those who believe in the scriptures as the word of God.May God truly lead and bless you.Alan Edited October 8, 2015 by Alan spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members wretched Posted October 8, 2015 Members Share Posted October 8, 2015 ***If you are of the mind that one should not read/write books or that developing a coherent theology is a waste of time, I do not want or need your input. Please do not comment on this thread if you're not going to contribute to the above stated goal of this discussion***Well, since you said please...ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted October 9, 2015 Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 I myself have put forth some thought toward writing on just this subject. As such, I would present a general thought -- Do not write a systematic theology from the perspective of human philosophy, but write a systematic theology from the perspective of Biblical revelation. If it is not actually revealed in God's Word, then it is not a theological doctrine that matters unto us (regardless of the human questions that we may want answered).Concerning "Theology Proper" --1. Part 1: The Lord our God - The Infinite God2. Part 2: The Lord our God - The Triune God3. Part 3: The Lord our God - The Sovereign God4. Part 4: The Lord our God - The Holy God5. Part 5: The Lord our God - The Gracious God6. ?????Part 6: The Lord our God - The Personal God(Note: Each of these parts contains a series of chapters/sub-points.)I see this as a very important point. Stick to what Scripture actually deals with and says, not speculations of what we (or others) might think certain things may mean or not. One of the main problems with many Christian writings along the lines proposed is the constant interjection of the authors speculations and guesses. Even worse when the author puts forth the speculations and guesses of those he disagrees with and then proceeds to offer his own speculations and guesses as an alternative. Recently I began reading an article online in which the author began by stating his intent to only speak what Scripture actually says with no outside input. Yet a few paragraphs in he began pointing out problems with some others speculations and then, rather than simply pointing out what Scripture actually says on the matter and leaving it at that, he writes a couple of paragraphs offering his own speculations and ends that section by saying his speculations must be right but with not a bit of Scripture to even attempt to back up that claim. I didn't finish reading the article as the author lost credibility just that quick. The point being, I highly recommend following the idea of allowing the Bible to speak for itself and leaving out extra-biblical commentary. TheSword 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 I think the names of God, including the titles of God, (Jehovah Sabaoth, more name and title?), should be interwoven with His attributes-maybe an entire section just for that, as each would need a separate explanation, I should think. I am thinking this is going to be a series of books.What I had in mind was a one-volume work and anticipated Theology Proper covering the first section and containing several chapters. Attributes, person, existence, etc. would all combine in logical succession to formulate a thorough understanding of God before moving onto the next section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members trapperhoney Posted October 9, 2015 Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 My husband is working through something similar given in messages on Wednesday evenings. He started with God. He just scratched the surface, really, but had to keep it simple since you really don't know the spiritual level of the congregation members. He had intended moving to Jesus next, but after we discussed it he is going to cover the Bible next. Kind of decided he probably should have done it first. It's hard to know where to start -- kind of the chicken and the egg situation. Without the Bible we wouldn't be able to know all we do about God, but without God we wouldn't have the Bible....Basically hubby just kind of concentrated on the characteristics of God and simply handed out a list of the names of God with scriptures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 I myself have put forth some thought toward writing on just this subject. As such, I would present a general thought -- Do not write a systematic theology from the perspective of human philosophy, but write a systematic theology from the perspective of Biblical revelation. If it is not actually revealed in God's Word, then it is not a theological doctrine that matters unto us (regardless of the human questions that we may want answered).I 100% agree with this and it is my intent. What I mean by incorporating philosophy into it would be taking the biblical claims about God to their logical ends to extrapolate and explain how those qualities and facts affect both our relation to Him and how it relates to other doctrines. Additionally, when building a systematic theology from the bottom-up, there must be some amount of reasoning for things such as the existence of God, otherwise it will be circular reasoning. Rest assured that it will be minimal and still supported by biblical evidence and principle on every point. trapperhoney 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 A good, solid Systematic Theology book written from a fundamental, Bible believing prespective would be a noteworthy task. Due to the complexity of the matter, as you said, it would probably take years of arduous work. Due to the time and desk work involved, most fundamentalists do not have the time necessary to do such a work due to the work in the ministry taking precedence.Yeah, it's the reason there is a dearth of fundamental literature in general. Truly, it's kind of a great problem to have because it means people are wholly given to the work of God. Right now I am not engaged in full-time ministry and so this will be my main project until I get established in a ministry in my new church and then I suppose will become my "leisure" activity. I would like to add one more attribute of God that is inherent in the nature of God you may consider in your work: The Foreknowledge of God. Apart from the foreknowledege of God as written in Romans, in Isaiah 41:4,42:9 and 43:9, God plainly states that due to His ability to know, and to direct, all events in the future that sets Him apart from all men. Agreed. I think I will actually address this thoroughly in both Theology Proper and Soteriology (salvation) when it comes time to work through the whole Calvinism thing. Well, since you said please...ok Haha, I certainly appreciate your cooperation. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 My husband is working through something similar given in messages on Wednesday evenings. He started with God. He just scratched the surface, really, but had to keep it simple since you really don't know the spiritual level of the congregation members. He had intended moving to Jesus next, but after we discussed it he is going to cover the Bible next. Kind of decided he probably should have done it first. It's hard to know where to start -- kind of the chicken and the egg situation. Without the Bible we wouldn't be able to know all we do about God, but without God we wouldn't have the Bible....Basically hubby just kind of concentrated on the characteristics of God and simply handed out a list of the names of God with scriptures.Trying to decide which one start with is always somewhat of a conundrum. Just like your husband, I intended to do Bibliology in the next section instead of moving on to Christ and the Holy Spirit as most systematic theologies do. Part of where many people fail is in not giving the Bible enough weight and precedence in developing their theologies and as a result they always end up with an inferior product. I think that is exactly why UM and John91 expressed their concerns over it above. Part of the fundamental aspect of what is missing from most systematic theologies I have seen is the lack of due attention and reverence given to the Bibliology up front to establish it as the sole source of divine truth. I would like everyone to rest assured that will not be the case in my work. A major part of the fundamental perspective is the inspiration, inerrancy, preservation, and reliability of the Bible and it is one of my foremost concerns for this endeavor. trapperhoney and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members swathdiver Posted October 9, 2015 Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 Consider the table of contents in the book, "A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine" by Thomas Paul Simmons. TheSword 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members TheSword Posted October 9, 2015 Author Members Share Posted October 9, 2015 Consider the table of contents in the book, "A Systematic Study of Bible Doctrine" by Thomas Paul Simmons.Thanks, I'll check it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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