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On 11/11/2015, 10:35:26, Invicta said:

So how was Abraham saved?  By the law, by circumcision or by faith?

Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

Genesis 15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

Genesis 15:3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

Genesis 15:4 And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

Genesis 15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

Genesis 15:6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.
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Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?

Romans 4:2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.

Romans 4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

God counted Abram’s belief in the LORD for RIGHTEOUSNESS. It really never says that Abraham was saved…but counted as “righteous”.

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How is the Term Israel

Used in the New Testament?

Covenant and reformed theologians believe that New Testament believers, including saved Gentiles, are the true Israel of God. Is it really Biblical to refer to Gentile believers as Israelites? Has God created a “new Israel” that is composed of believing Jews and Gentiles of this present age?

Let us search the Scriptures to see if these things be so. We will examine the 73 times in the New Testament where the term “Israel” is used. How does the New Testament use this term? Is it ever used of the church in general or saved Gentiles in particular?

The following article is taken from the book Israelology–the Missing Link in Systematic Theology, by Arnold G. Fruchtenbaum. It is used with his permission.

CONCLUSION

For Dispensational Israelology, the conclusion is that the Church is never called, and is not, a “spiritual Israel” or a “new Israel.” The term “Israel” is either used of the nation or the people as a whole, or of the believing remnant within. It is never used of the Church in general or of Gentile believers in particular.

The Israel of God of Galatians 6:16

 

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Brother "Invicta," I notice that in such discussions as this, you like to bring forward the above verse - John 18:36.  Concerning t

 Heb 10:11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:   Heb 10:1 For the law having a shad

In Deuteronomy, the law was stated again for those who were about to enter the promised land. Then in chapters 27-30 (especially 27and 28), the results for both obedience and disobedience to th

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Very good study, Linda! Those who attempt to steal the blessings of Israel (yet strangely deny any of the curses) have to twist, spiritualize, and even omit massive amounts of scripture to do so. They pluck out a verse or two, entirely out of context, and apply it to themselves (when the contextual scripture proves their theory wrong). I am amazed by the people who refuse to believe that God said what He meant, and meant what He said.

Romans 11 speaks clearly to the fact that  God has not permanently cast off Israel. He has future plans for them. Not only do the replacement theologists throw out huge chunks of OT scripture, they also have to throw out Romans 11 (and others) as well.  I revere the word of God. What's more, I fear God, and wouldn't knowingly twist scripture to mean something other than what it clearly states. 

Again, Excellent study, Linda!

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17 minutes ago, Alan said:

Your interpretation of the question of Pilate and the answer of the Lord Jesus is not accurate. The context is kingship in a coming kingdom; not salvation. 

Again, when you said, "That has nothing to do with a text of a Bible is missing some words." Whatever the subject matter, whether for salvation or the coming kingdom, that is the issue: the taking out of a word, a very important word, from the mouth of the Lord Jesus as recorded in the scriptures. This is the reason why Ronda responded the way she did and I commend her for it.

Alan

One unfounded opinion, Alan. Sorry to hear this of you.

Just because you want something to be in a text, doesn't mean it is.

 

36 minutes ago, Ronda said:

Very interesting.  God's word doesn't mean what it says? It only means what YOU say it says? Read the verses I quoted. WHY would Matthew 15: 13-16 not have anything to do with Matthew 5:17-18?   If they are supposedly irrelevant to each other, WHY would Jesus have spoken them right afterwards? 

Huh? When did I say that?

But I do find it humorous that you think they do. Once again...read your own reference below please.

Matthew 15 - 

13 But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.

14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.

15 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Declare unto us this parable.

16 And Jesus said, Are ye also yet without understanding?

 

1 minute ago, Ronda said:

Very good study, Linda! Those who attempt to steal the blessings of Israel (yet strangely deny any of the curses) have to twist, spiritualize, and even omit massive amounts of scripture to do so. They pluck out a verse or two, entirely out of context, and apply it to themselves (when the contextual scripture proves their theory wrong). I am amazed by the people who refuse to believe that God said what He meant, and meant what He said.

Romans 11 speaks clearly to the fact that  God has not permanently cast off Israel. He has future plans for them. Not only do the replacement theologists throw out huge chunks of OT scripture, they also have to throw out Romans 11 (and others) as well.  I revere the word of God. What's more, I fear God, and wouldn't knowingly twist scripture to mean something other than what it clearly states. 

Again, Excellent study, Linda!

You have plenty to learn in making statements like this in a public forum.

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34 minutes ago, Alan said:

Your interpretation of the question of Pilate and the answer of the Lord Jesus is not accurate. The context is kingship in a coming kingdom; not salvation. 

Again, when you said, "That has nothing to do with a text of a Bible is missing some words." Whatever the subject matter, whether for salvation or the coming kingdom, that is the issue: the taking out of a word, a very important word, from the mouth of the Lord Jesus as recorded in the scriptures. This is the reason why Ronda responded the way she did and I commend her for it.

Alan

Ok, we are back to the word "now".

You are mixing things up here Alan. I never said Pilate's convo with Christ Jesus had to do with salvation.

Please tell me where I did, I looked over my posts and cannot find such a thing.

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2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

*Please read the bold type that I highlighted...please?

The text is speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue.

That has nothing to do with whether a text of a Bible is missing some words.

 

 

You said the above: "The text is speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue." That, referring to the salvation of our soul, is not the context. The context of the conversation of Christ and Pilate is the coming kingdom.

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14 minutes ago, Alan said:

You said the above: "The text is speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue." That, referring to the salvation of our soul, is not the context. The context of the conversation of Christ and Pilate is the coming kingdom.

I see your confusion. This was in reference to Matthew 5:17,18, not the other reference.

Read Ronda's previous statement with my response, and you will see what I mean.

  2 hours ago, Ronda said:

In reading Matthew 5, Jesus spoke to His disciples in verses 13-16 about being the salt of the earth and the light of the world. Do you not find it interesting (I do) that directly after those verses (13-16) comes verses 17 & 18:
17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18  "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."*

It strikes me as I read this that in order to be the salt and the light, Jesus includes the importance of accuracy. I have studied on "jots and tittles", what I found was not what I expected... the jot (yodh) is the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The "tittle" is a decorative mark drawn on the upper right edge of the "jot" (yodh).
You can see clearly why Jesus wouldn't want the letter (jot) to be taken out, but even more amazingly, He didn't want the "tittle" to be taken out either. Not even the smallest letter or even its decorative spur will ever disappear from the "God Breathed" Word until all is fulfilled. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I see your confusion. This was in reference to Matthew 5:17,18, not the other reference.

Read Ronda's previous statement with my response, and you will see what I mean.

In reading Matthew 5, Jesus spoke to His disciples in verses 13-16 about being the salt of the earth and the light of the world. Do you not find it interesting (I do) that directly after those verses (13-16) comes verses 17 & 18:
17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18  "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."*

It strikes me as I read this that in order to be the salt and the light, Jesus includes the importance of accuracy. I have studied on "jots and tittles", what I found was not what I expected... the jot (yodh) is the smallest letter of the Hebrew alphabet. The "tittle" is a decorative mark drawn on the upper right edge of the "jot" (yodh).
You can see clearly why Jesus wouldn't want the letter (jot) to be taken out, but even more amazingly, He didn't want the "tittle" to be taken out either. Not even the smallest letter or even its decorative spur will ever disappear from the "God Breathed" Word until all is fulfilled. 

 

Genevanpreacher,

Thank you for clarifying the issue and the confusion as to exactly what we are to referring to now.

As you may, or may not have noticed, I did not respond to any of the posts concerning the Matthew 5:13-16 and the 17-18 previous statements. I did this as I felt both of you and Ronda had valid points and I did not want to interfere with that discussion; but just sit back and read.

When the Lord Jesus said, "Think not that I am not come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."  Matthew 5:17 can be applicable to all of the prophecies concerning salvation and future prophecy. So, according to that context, I have no bone of contention with you.

Alan

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The ss, and the Jesuits and many others specialized in death, like the horse of the Apocalypse called death, it was given power over a large part of the earth, death was its sole purpose( the previous horse brought war which included death) hell followed with it to cover the evidence and hide it îf possible, but all will be discovered.

Rome and co do genocide of those whom they perceive to be Gods people, then there academics team work from that point onward to cover it from the face of the earth using every lie under the sun.the Jesuits the ss and skull n bones all have the skull as symbol.

or in other words my interpretation of the rider called death. but its a footnote really.

 

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15 minutes ago, Alan said:

Genevanpreacher,

Thank you for clarifying the issue and the confusion as to exactly what we are to referring to now.

As you may, or may not have noticed, I did not respond to any of the posts concerning the Matthew 5:13-16 and the 17-18 previous statements. I did this as I felt both of you and Ronda had valid points and I did not want to interfere with that discussion; but just sit back and read.

When the Lord Jesus said, "Think not that I am not come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."  Matthew 5:17 can be applicable to all of the prophecies concerning salvation and future prophecy. So, according to that context, I have no bone of contention with you.

Alan

While I do agree that Matthew 5:17 clearly states that YES Jesus has fulfilled the prophesies in salvation in verse 17

I do not agree that "all has been fulfilled" in verse 18. Not one jot or tittle should pass until when? Till heaven an earth pass. AND Till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, and ALL has not been fulfilled, as there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the end days. 

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." 

Here is were I do have (yet another) point of contention:

2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

from the law, till all be fulfilled."*

 

2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

*Please read the bold type that I highlighted...please?

The text is speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue.

Genevan took the phrase:  "from the law, till all be fulfilled"   which is part of verse 18

He then stated that verse 18 is "speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue."

I contend that yes, verse 17 clearly speaks to Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the law to take care of our sin issue.  Jesus came (the first time) as the sacrificial lamb, the perfect blood atonement for the salvation which the law could not do.

However, verse 18 does not. Heaven and earth have not passed away and ALL has not (yet) been fulfilled. 

18  "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." 

SO please clarify for me, Alan, since you said you have no bone of contention with Genevan.... Do you believe that ALL has been fulfilled? And that heaven and earth have passed away? (as shown in verse 18) Because there are SEVERAL prophecies which have not yet been fulfilled.  
 

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54 minutes ago, Alan said:

Genevanpreacher,

Thank you for clarifying the issue and the confusion as to exactly what we are to referring to now.

As you may, or may not have noticed, I did not respond to any of the posts concerning the Matthew 5:13-16 and the 17-18 previous statements. I did this as I felt both of you and Ronda had valid points and I did not want to interfere with that discussion; but just sit back and read.

When the Lord Jesus said, "Think not that I am not come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."  Matthew 5:17 can be applicable to all of the prophecies concerning salvation and future prophecy. So, according to that context, I have no bone of contention with you.

Alan

Ronda,

Please look at my last sentence, I said: " ... Matthew 5:17 can be applicable to all of the prophecies concerning salvation and future prophecy." That is true and in agreement with you Ronda. All of the prophecies have not been fulfilled that were prophesied by the Old Testament prophets, nor by the Lord Jesus in Matthew 24, nor by the Apostle Paul, Peter nor Jude. All of these prophecies are yet to be fulfilled.

With the  context of salvation I have no bone of contention with Genevanpreacher. All of the prophecies concerning Christ and His cross for the redemption of our soul has been fulfilled.

Now, our bone of contention is the coming literal kingdom on the earth. That prophecy has not been fulfilled and was what the conversation with Pilate in John 18:36 is talking about.

I hope this clarifies my posting.

Alan

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43 minutes ago, Ronda said:

While I do agree that Matthew 5:17 clearly states that YES Jesus has fulfilled the prophesies in salvation in verse 17

I do not agree that "all has been fulfilled" in verse 18. Not one jot or tittle should pass until when? Till heaven an earth pass. AND Till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, and ALL has not been fulfilled, as there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the end days. 

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." 

Here is were I do have (yet another) point of contention:

 

Genevan took the phrase:  "from the law, till all be fulfilled"   which is part of verse 18

He then stated that verse 18 is "speaking about Jesus Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the Law to take care of our sin issue."

I contend that yes, verse 17 clearly speaks to Christ fulfilling the sacrifices of the law to take care of our sin issue.  Jesus came (the first time) as the sacrificial lamb, the perfect blood atonement for the salvation which the law could not do.

However, verse 18 does not. Heaven and earth have not passed away and ALL has not (yet) been fulfilled. 

18  "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." 

SO please clarify for me, Alan, since you said you have no bone of contention with Genevan.... Do you believe that ALL has been fulfilled? And that heaven and earth have passed away? (as shown in verse 18) Because there are SEVERAL prophecies which have not yet been fulfilled.  

First off, both verses are talking about the same thing.

Salvation attained through what Jesus Christ accomplished in fulfilling what was written FOR him and ABOUT him.

Let me explain -

The Law showed what Christ would accomplish in his sacrifice on the cross.

The Prophets spoke about what Christ fullfilled in describing the One who would accomplish the needs of the Law.

Both were fulfilled - Christ was who the Prophets described, and Christ sacrificed himself according to the letter of the Law.

Seems simple enough to understand in my thinking.

And, in my opinion, if that is a correct understanding, then all that info is good 'til heaven and earth pass away'.

The Savior and his sacrifice are good forever and for everyone.

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1 minute ago, Genevanpreacher said:

First off, both verses are talking about the same thing.

Salvation attained through what Jesus Christ accomplished in fulfilling what was written FOR him and ABOUT him.

Let me explain -

The Law showed what Christ would accomplish in his sacrifice on the cross.

The Prophets spoke about what Christ fullfilled in describing the One who would accomplish the needs of the Law.

Both were fulfilled - Christ was who the Prophets described, and Christ sacrificed himself according to the letter of the Law. Both, salvation and KIngship, were not fulfulled. The prophecies of the coming Kingdom, with the risen King David, and the literal prophecies concerning the restoration of the nation of Israel, in their own land, was not fulfilled on the Cross of Calvary, but we are awating the promised kingdom as discussed in this thread. Alan

Seems simple enough to understand in my thinking.

And, in my opinion, if that is a correct understanding, then all that info is good 'til heaven and earth pass away'.

The Savior and his sacrifice are good forever and for everyone.

 

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Genevanpreacher,

In Revelation 19, when the Lord Jesus comes with HIs church (the saints from the church age), He is coming as KING OF KINGS AND LORD AND LORDS. "And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written,KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Revelation 19:16

And, after the battle in Revelation 19:17-21 the Lord Jesus confines Satan in the the bottomless pit, Revelation 21:1-3 and then in Revelation 20:4 the Lord Jesus sits on His throne, 'the kingship,' in Jerusalem to reign 1000 years. This is in fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel 7:13 and 14, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

I covered this aspect of the kingship of Christ more fuller in the Revelation Chapter 19-22 Study. Here is the link to the particular page that deals with the Millennial Reign of Christ: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=3

Also, recently I revised the Revelation Chapter 19-22 Study and had it printed into spiral bound book form. Genevanpreacher, if you would like to have a copy of it I will send you it free of charge (including free postage). All I need is an address. You can send me the address through personal messenger.

Either way, I do hope the short lesson answered your question and anybody else interested.

God bless.

Alan

 

 

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2015‎ ‎9‎:‎51‎:‎02‎, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Invicta,"

I notice that in such discussions as this, you like to bring forward the above verse - John 18:36. 

Concerning this verse I wish to ask you a question -- What is the meaning of the word "now" in the closing line of John 18:36?

 

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2015‎ ‎1‎:‎29‎:‎41‎, Invicta said:

Don't panic.  I don't rush to answer fatuous questions I will reply in due course.  

 

Ah, yes, such great wisdom for Bible study --

Although the ability to live pleasing unto the Lord our God is by every single word "that proceedeth out of the mouth of the Lord" (see Deuteronomy 8:3), and although every single word of God's Holy Word is pure (see Proverbs 30:5), and although every single word of God's Holy Word is "given by inspiration of God" through the work of God the Holy Spirit, such that every single word of God's Holy Word is "profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (see 2 Timothy 3:16-17 & 2 Peter 1:20-21), yet we should certainly recognize that asking a question concerning one of those single words of God's Holy Word as employed in a particular context of God's Holy Word is an utterly foolish ("fatuous") thing to do.

In addition, since the ploughboy has been used in a previous discussion against my "jot and tittle" method of precise grammatical and contextual analysis in Bible study, I am moved to mention my belief that that very ploughboy would not have any difficulty in understanding the meaning of the single syllable temporal adverb, "now," as used in the simple sentence of eight words, "But now is my kingdom not from hence." 

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25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

I believe the above verses quoted from God's word in Luke 24 answer the question of whether the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled or not.

And the following covers it well also, about the Lord fulfilling what the Prophets said -

17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Yeah Ronda and Alan, Jesus Christ fulfilled it all. At that time!

Sorry Ronda, but you said it -

"While I do agree that Matthew 5:17 clearly states that YES Jesus has fulfilled the prophesies in salvation in verse 17

I do not agree that "all has been fulfilled" in verse 18. Not one jot or tittle should pass until when? Till heaven an earth pass. AND Till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, and ALL has not been fulfilled, as there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the end days. 

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." "

 

And I will close with this for now -

 

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.
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8 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:
25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

 

I believe the above verses quoted from God's word in Luke 24 answer the question of whether the Law and the Prophets were fulfilled or not.

And the following covers it well also, about the Lord fulfilling what the Prophets said -

17 And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Yeah Ronda and Alan, Jesus Christ fulfilled it all. At that time!

Sorry Ronda, but you said it -

"While I do agree that Matthew 5:17 clearly states that YES Jesus has fulfilled the prophesies in salvation in verse 17

I do not agree that "all has been fulfilled" in verse 18. Not one jot or tittle should pass until when? Till heaven an earth pass. AND Till all be fulfilled.

Heaven and earth have not passed away, and ALL has not been fulfilled, as there are many prophecies yet to be fulfilled in the end days. 

Matthew 5:17 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."
18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." "

 

And I will close with this for now -

 

32 And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,

33 God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.

34 And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.

35 Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

36 For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:

37 But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.

38 Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

40 Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

41 Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Does this mean that it is your belief that there is not a single prophetic utterance in the Old Testament Law and Prophets concerning our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming?

Or, does this mean that it is your belief that our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already occurred, and has thus already been fulfilled?

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49 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Does this mean that it is your belief that there is not a single prophetic utterance in the Old Testament Law and Prophets concerning our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming?

Or, does this mean that it is your belief that our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already occurred, and has thus already been fulfilled?

I have a question Scott.

Does all mean all, or does fulfilled mean fulfilled?

If you have to add to Gods word for implications to appear, you are doing just that, creating implications.

I know this is said much too often, but, Scott, I believe the scriptures in what they say, not what I believe they say.

As I am sure you do also.

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1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Does this mean that it is your belief that there is not a single prophetic utterance in the Old Testament Law and Prophets concerning our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming?

Or, does this mean that it is your belief that our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already occurred, and has thus already been fulfilled?

What the scriptures said about the coming Messiah, Jesus fulfilled.

What the scriptures said about what the coming Messiah was going to do, Jesus fulfilled.

In the NH and NE Jesus Christ will rule the saved from his throne, the 'Davidic' throne of the Lord God, on the earth in the New Jerusalem for the rest of eternity.

David will never rule Israel again. 

All the so-called 'prophecies' that dispyism teaches will apply to the lost people we term Jews, are fulfilled in Jesus Christ's fulfillment of the scriptures.

The end of that fulfillment is unending. He will fulfill all that applies to the saved, his ONLY people, throughout eternity.

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On 11/12/2015, 2:28:59, Alan said:

Furthermore, it is in deliberate violation of the warning given by the Holy Spirit in Revelation 22:18 and 19, "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book. And if any man shall take away from the prophecy of this book of thisprophecy, God shall take away his part of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

These translators who take away the very words of the Lord Jesus, "now," in John 18;36 are in clear violation of this warning. These translators despise the very words of the Lord Jesus, the scriptures and the doctrine of the coming, visible kingdom of the Lord Jesus.

Alan

Once again...

Why do some people use verses talking specifically about one book of prophecy and apply it to the whole bible?

You are not paying attention Alan.

So unlike you.

The warning was for Revelation, not the whole Bible.

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31 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Does all mean all, or does fulfilled mean fulfilled?

Genevan,

Please look again at the verses you quoted...look at what they are saying...

Luke 24:25-27
25   Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26   Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27   And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The disciples, not knowing that it was Jesus talking to them, were telling him that they thought Jesus would have been the one to redeem Israel...but he was dead. However, some were claiming that he was alive, but when others went to the tomb to see if it were true, they didn't see him.

Christ was admonishing these disciples for not believing "all" that the prophets had spoken. In other words, they didn't believe what the prophets said about Christ suffering, dying, and resurrecting. They didn't believe it "all". So, Christ expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things that were "concerning" himself. He simply explained the things that were written about him.

Acts 3:17-26
17   And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18   But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19   Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20   And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21   Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22   For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23   And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24   Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25   Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26   Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

I'm not sure what your intent was with those verses, but it's clear...

Verse 18 - the things God showed by the mouth of all his prophets were...that Christ should suffer. Christ fulfilled those things...that's what Peter is talking about...Christ's sufferings.

Verse 21 - Why did you underline the second part of the verse but not the first part? The first part (along with verses 19 and 20) explains the second part...Christ will be in heaven until the restitution of all things. THEN, Christ will return. The restitution of ALL hasn't happened yet, or Christ would have already returned. There's still more to be fulfilled! Anyway, that's what your underlined part is referring to.

Verse 24 - All the prophets foretold of these days. What were the days that Peter was referring to? He explained it in the previous verses.

Why include verse 26 in your list? That sums up everything. All that Peter was talking about...all that he kept referencing as being foretold by ALL the prophets...came down to verse 26. Christ suffered and was killed, but God raised him up to bless them in turning every one of them from their iniquities. In other words, the gospel was foretold, Christ fulfilled it, and salvation is offered.

Acts 13:32-41
32   And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33   God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34   And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35   Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36   For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37   But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38   Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39   And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40   Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41   Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Again, I'm not sure of your intent with these verses either...

Verses 32 and 33 refer to what promise? This promise was fulfilled because Christ rose from the dead. Well, if we don't stop at what you underlined, we will see what the promise was. It's found in verse 34...because Christ is risen from the dead, God will give them "the sure mercies of David". What in the world does that mean? Here's what it means...

Isaiah 55:3
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Okay, but what in the world are "the sure mercies of David"? Here's what it means...

Isaiah 55:3-4
3   Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4   Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Verse 4 describes what "the sure mercies of David" is. "Someone" will be a witness for the people, a leader and a commander for the people. First...who are "the people"? The people are the nation of Israel. Second, the sure mercies of David describes what the person will do. David was a witness for the people, a leader and commander for the people...but...David was already dead when Isaiah wrote that, so he was talking about someone in the future...someone who would be a witness for the nation of Israel, a leader for the nation of Israel, and a commander for the nation of Israel.

Since Christ was resurrected, HE will be that person who will give Israel "the sure mercies of David.

Verse 40 - what was he referring to as being "spoken of in the prophets"? Well, he starts off with "Beware"...so it's a warning...and the warning is verse 41. In other words, they had better believe everything he was saying previously concerning Christ, because if they didn't...they would be with those who refused to believe though it was declared to them...and they'd be lost.

Now, just in these verses that you yourself have quoted, I've shown that not everything has been fulfilled. Yes, Christ fulfilled "all" that the prophets had spoken regarding salvation, but not "all" prophecy has been fulfilled.

1. The restitution of all things hasn't happened yet. If it had, Christ would have already returned.

2. The sure mercies of David hasn't happened yet...a promise included in the verses you gave...a promise given to the nation of Israel.

 

16 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

What the scriptures said about the coming Messiah, Jesus fulfilled.

What the scriptures said about what the coming Messiah was going to do, Jesus fulfilled.

In the NH and NE Jesus Christ will rule the saved from his throne, the 'Davidic' throne of the Lord God, on the earth in the New Jerusalem for the rest of eternity.

David will never rule Israel again. 

All the so-called 'prophecies' that dispyism teaches will apply to the lost people we term Jews, are fulfilled in Jesus Christ's fulfillment of the scriptures.

The end of that fulfillment is unending. He will fulfill all that applies to the saved, his ONLY people, throughout eternity.

So...David...who was dead when this was written...

Ezekiel 34:23-24
23   And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24   And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.


...David will never have any rule in Israel again?

 

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1 hour ago, No Nicolaitans said:

Genevan,

Please look again at the verses you quoted...look at what they are saying...

Luke 24:25-27
25   Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:
26   Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?
27   And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.

The disciples, not knowing that it was Jesus talking to them, were telling him that they thought Jesus would have been the one to redeem Israel...but he was dead. However, some were claiming that he was alive, but when others went to the tomb to see if it were true, they didn't see him.

Christ was admonishing these disciples for not believing "all" that the prophets had spoken. In other words, they didn't believe what the prophets said about Christ suffering, dying, and resurrecting. They didn't believe it "all". So, Christ expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things that were "concerning" himself. He simply explained the things that were written about him.

Acts 3:17-26
17   And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it, as did also your rulers.
18   But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.
19   Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
20   And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
21   Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
22   For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23   And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24   Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25   Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26   Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

I'm not sure what your intent was with those verses, but it's clear...

Verse 18 - the things God showed by the mouth of all his prophets were...that Christ should suffer. Christ fulfilled those things...that's what Peter is talking about...Christ's sufferings.

Verse 21 - Why did you underline the second part of the verse but not the first part? The first part (along with verses 19 and 20) explains the second part...Christ will be in heaven until the restitution of all things. THEN, Christ will return. The restitution of ALL hasn't happened yet, or Christ would have already returned. There's still more to be fulfilled! Anyway, that's what your underlined part is referring to.

Verse 24 - All the prophets foretold of these days. What were the days that Peter was referring to? He explained it in the previous verses.

Why include verse 26 in your list? That sums up everything. All that Peter was talking about...all that he kept referencing as being foretold by ALL the prophets...came down to verse 26. Christ suffered and was killed, but God raised him up to bless them in turning every one of them from their iniquities. In other words, the gospel was foretold, Christ fulfilled it, and salvation is offered.

Acts 13:32-41
32   And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers,
33   God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
34   And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.
35   Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
36   For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption:
37   But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption.
38   Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:
39   And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
40   Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;
41   Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

Again, I'm not sure of your intent with these verses either...

Verses 32 and 33 refer to what promise? This promise was fulfilled because Christ rose from the dead. Well, if we don't stop at what you underlined, we will see what the promise was. It's found in verse 34...because Christ is risen from the dead, God will give them "the sure mercies of David". What in the world does that mean? Here's what it means...

Isaiah 55:3
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.

Okay, but what in the world are "the sure mercies of David"? Here's what it means...

Isaiah 55:3-4
3   Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.
4   Behold, I have given him for a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people.

Verse 4 describes what "the sure mercies of David" is. "Someone" will be a witness for the people, a leader and a commander for the people. First...who are "the people"? The people are the nation of Israel. Second, the sure mercies of David describes what the person will do. David was a witness for the people, a leader and commander for the people...but...David was already dead when Isaiah wrote that, so he was talking about someone in the future...someone who would be a witness for the nation of Israel, a leader for the nation of Israel, and a commander for the nation of Israel.

Since Christ was resurrected, HE will be that person who will give Israel "the sure mercies of David.

Verse 40 - what was he referring to as being "spoken of in the prophets"? Well, he starts off with "Beware"...so it's a warning...and the warning is verse 41. In other words, they had better believe everything he was saying previously concerning Christ, because if they didn't...they would be with those who refused to believe though it was declared to them...and they'd be lost.

Now, just in these verses that you yourself have quoted, I've shown that not everything has been fulfilled. Yes, Christ fulfilled "all" that the prophets had spoken regarding salvation, but not "all" prophecy has been fulfilled.

1. The restitution of all things hasn't happened yet. If it had, Christ would have already returned.

2. The sure mercies of David hasn't happened yet...a promise included in the verses you gave...a promise given to the nation of Israel.

 

So...David...who was dead when this was written...

Ezekiel 34:23-24
23   And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24   And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.


...David will never have any rule in Israel again?

 

I have already explained. If you want to twist my answer you can.

Thanks.

As for David? Tell me NN, just who is sitting on who's throne?

Acts 2 -

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
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Oh yeah, and this might be a clue NN - 

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
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4 hours ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Does this mean that it is your belief that there is not a single prophetic utterance in the Old Testament Law and Prophets concerning our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming?

Or, does this mean that it is your belief that our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming has already occurred, and has thus already been fulfilled?

 

3 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I have a question Scott.

Does all mean all, or does fulfilled mean fulfilled?

If you have to add to Gods word for implications to appear, you are doing just that, creating implications.

I know this is said much too often, but, Scott, I believe the scriptures in what they say, not what I believe they say.

As I am sure you do also.

Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

1.  Grammatically, the word "all" always means "all" as modified by whatever modifiers are present in the grammatical statement.

For example - If I make reference unto ALL of the adult men in the congregation of Melvin Baptist Church, does that word "all" mean "all," including the women and children?  In my referenced statement, the word "all" does not at all mean "all" of the women and children.  In fact, in my referenced statement, the word "all" does not even include a single one of the women and children.  Indeed, in my referenced statement, the word "all" was modified by the prepositional phrase, "of the men;" therefore, it only includes the men of the congregation.  Yet it does indeed include ALL of the men.

2.  Grammatically, the word "fulfilled" means "filled up to the full," or "completely accomplished as presented."  However, the word "fulfilled" only means this in relation to whatever prophetic subject matter is actually being expressed in the grammatical statement and context.

3.  I did take notice that you completely avoided answering either of my questions concerning our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming and concerning the Old Testament prophecies about our Lord Jesus Christ's Second Coming.  Even so, I would request that you might actually answer the questions that I asked of you.

 

2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

What the scriptures said about the coming Messiah, Jesus fulfilled.

What the scriptures said about what the coming Messiah was going to do, Jesus fulfilled.

In the NH and NE Jesus Christ will rule the saved from his throne, the 'Davidic' throne of the Lord God, on the earth in the New Jerusalem for the rest of eternity.

David will never rule Israel again. 

All the so-called 'prophecies' that dispyism teaches will apply to the lost people we term Jews, are fulfilled in Jesus Christ's fulfillment of the scriptures.

The end of that fulfillment is unending. He will fulfill all that applies to the saved, his ONLY people, throughout eternity.

I must admit that I am now completely confused concerning your position of belief on the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  Therefore, I am moved to ask the following:

1.  Do you even believe in the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, or do you believe that this doctrine has simply been manufactured by "dispyism"?

2.  If you do believe in the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, do you believe that it is a yet future event, or that it is an event that has already been fulfilled?

3.  If you do believe in the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, do you believe that there was any prophetic utterances concerning that Second Coming included in the Old Testament Law and Prophets?

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1 hour ago, Genevanpreacher said:

I have already explained. If you want to twist my answer you can.

Thanks.

As for David? Tell me NN, just who is sitting on who's throne?

Acts 2 -

29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

 

44 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Oh yeah, and this might be a clue NN - 

30 And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31 And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

 

So...even though God's word says that David will be a prince and a shepherd again, you're saying he won't be?

The Bible is clear who will be on the throne...Jesus Christ...but that doesn't exclude others from ruling with him...

Just a few examples...

  • The 12 apostles judging the 12 tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:30)
  • Christians will reign with Christ (2 Timothy 2:12 and Revelation 20:6)
  • Not to mention the faithful servants who Christ will make rulers over "many things" and over "cities".

Are you saying that none of that will happen either...none of these will rule while Christ rules?

And you can stop with your little jabs; such as, "I twisted your answer". I did no such thing. All I did was point out what you left out or avoided in your answer...which I noticed you didn't answer any of my points. Instead, you responded with little smart-alack verbal jabs.

And you can stop with your little jabs; such as, "this might be a clue". I'm a grown man; not a sixth grader...you can talk to me like a man.

 

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2 minutes ago, No Nicolaitans said:

So...even though God's word says that David will be a prince and a shepherd again, you're saying he won't be?

The Bible is clear who will be on the throne...Jesus Christ...but that doesn't exclude others from ruling with him...

Just a few examples...

  • The 12 apostles judging the 12 tribes of Israel. (Luke 22:30)
  • Christians will reign with Christ (2 Timothy 2:12 and Revelation 20:6)
  • Not to mention the faithful servants who Christ will make rulers over "many things" and over "cities".

Are you saying that none of that will happen either...none of these will rule while Christ rules?

And you can stop with your little jabs; such as, "I twisted your answer". I did no such thing. All I did was point out what you left out or avoided in your answer...which I noticed you didn't answer any of my points. Instead, you responded with little smart-alack verbal jabs.

And you can stop with your little jabs; such as, "this might be a clue". I'm a grown man; not a sixth grader...you can talk to me like a man.

 

The question was whether David would be ruling, and my answer is no, Jesus Christ is who is referred to as being on the throne of David, which also excludes all your other references for people ruling, as they are not ruling on the throne of David.

That man enough for you?

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1 minute ago, Genevanpreacher said:

The question was whether David would be ruling, and my answer is no, Jesus Christ is who is referred to as being on the throne of David, which also excludes all your other references for people ruling, as they are not ruling on the throne of David.

What question? Who asked that question? Who said David would be ruling instead of Christ? If I missed it, I apologize.

Still, that doesn't exclude the truth of God's word which says that David will be a prince and a shepherd once again to Israel. He will have some type of ruling authority...as will the apostles, Christians, et al.

5 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

That man enough for you?

You did good until you added that. You just can't resist, can you?

You still haven't answered my points from several posts ago. 

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3 hours ago, No Nicolaitans said:

So...David...who was dead when this was written...

Ezekiel 34:23-24
23   And I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd.
24   And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it.


...David will never have any rule in Israel again?

Sounds like a question. Am I missing something?

If or when Christ is on the throne of David, David is not.

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1 minute ago, Genevanpreacher said:

Sounds like a question. Am I missing something?

If or when Christ is on the throne of David, David is not.

Okay, I thought you meant that "the question" pertained to David ruling instead of Christ. Still, all I asked was...

So...David...who was dead when this was written...David will never have any rule in Israel again?

"any rule"... I never inferred that David would be "THE" ruler; however, he will have some type of ruling authority. All that I can see is that you're wanting to argue this point...and you're the one who brought it up. All I asked was if your position is that David won't have "any rule" in Israel...along with several other points that you still haven't responded to.

I agree that David won't be "THE" ruler, but are you saying that David will never have any rule in Israel again? 

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You still didn't answer the question, but that's okay.

 

7 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

He will not have a throne.

Neither will anyone else.

No one else will have a throne?

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luke 22:28-30
28   Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.
29   And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;
30   That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Revelation 20:4
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Christ will be THE ruler; however, he will delegate his authority and allow others to rule with him...on thrones.

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Genevanpreacher said:

He will not have a throne.

Neither will anyone else.

Only God will.

And Jesus Christ is the physical form of God.

So Christ will rule from his throne like David did ages ago.

 

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