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Jesus' coming Kingdom on land.


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46 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Bro Scott  (you can address me as David)

I will ask you a question which I asked Eric a number of times and which he avoided answering as far as I can remember,

Are you in Christ's kingdom?

 

Brother David,

As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal and eternal Savior from sin, I am indeed a citizen of Christ's heavenly kingdom.  However, as such a citizen, I am presently dwelling as a stranger (foreigner) and pilgrim in this world.

Furthermore, as a citizen of Christ's heavenly kingdom and in accord with God's Holy Word, I have full assurance of faith that our Lord Jesus Christ shall sometime in the future, as the King of kings of His kingdom, descend out of heaven to establish His kingdom on, in, at, from this world, such that His heavenly kingdom will then also be His earthly kingdom.

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30 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother David,

As a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as my personal and eternal Savior from sin, I am indeed a citizen of Christ's heavenly kingdom.  However, as such a citizen, I am presently dwelling as a stranger (foreigner) and pilgrim in this world.

Furthermore, as a citizen of Christ's heavenly kingdom and in accord with God's Holy Word, I have full assurance of faith that our Lord Jesus Christ shall sometime in the future, as the King of kings of His kingdom, descend out of heaven to establish His kingdom on, in, at, from this world, such that His heavenly kingdom will then also be His earthly kingdom.

I think that is what I was trying to say in my previous posts.

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15 minutes ago, Invicta said:

I think that is what I was trying to say in my previous posts.

Brother David,

I do apologize, for I did not quite understand the above from your previous posts.

I would add concerning my comments above that my first paragraph would fit with Jesus' opening declaration in John 18:36 -- "My kingdom is [present tense existence] not of [as its source of origin] this world [but is out of heaven as its source of origin, being a heavenly kingdom]."  I would further add that my second paragraph would fit with Jesus' closing declaration in John 18:36 -- "But now [at this present time] is my kingdom not from [located on, in, at] hence [this world] [yet sometime in the future that kingdom shall be located on, in, at, from this world]."

Finally, it is my understand concerning your position of belief that we would be in agreement on the following:

1.  That Christ's kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, having its source of origin out of heaven, not out of the earth (God-made, not man-made).
2.  That Christ the King and Christ's kingdom are presently "based" in heaven.
3.  That all genuine believers are citizens spiritually of Christ's kingdom.
4.  That Christ the King and Christ's kingdom will sometime in the future come down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.
5.  That Christ's kingdom, when it comes down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth, shall exist eternally as a kingdom located and "based" on the earth.

However, it is my understanding that we would be in disagreement on the following:

1.  Concerning the timing wherein Christ the King and Christ's kingdom shall come down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.
2.  Concerning the events that shall immediately follow this coming of Christ the King and Christ's kingdom down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.

Am I correct in my above understanding?

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28 minutes ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Brother David,

I do apologize, for I did not quite understand the above from your previous posts.

I would add concerning my comments above that my first paragraph would fit with Jesus' opening declaration in John 18:36 -- "My kingdom is [present tense existence] not of [as its source of origin] this world [but is out of heaven as its source of origin, being a heavenly kingdom]."  I would further add that my second paragraph would fit with Jesus' closing declaration in John 18:36 -- "But now [at this present time] is my kingdom not from [located on, in, at] hence [this world] [yet sometime in the future that kingdom shall be located on, in, at, from this world]."

Finally, it is my understand concerning your position of belief that we would be in agreement on the following:

1.  That Christ's kingdom is a heavenly kingdom, having its source of origin out of heaven, not out of the earth (God-made, not man-made).
2.  That Christ the King and Christ's kingdom are presently "based" in heaven.
3.  That all genuine believers are citizens spiritually of Christ's kingdom.
4.  That Christ the King and Christ's kingdom will sometime in the future come down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.
5.  That Christ's kingdom, when it comes down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth, shall exist eternally as a kingdom located and "based" on the earth.

However, it is my understanding that we would be in disagreement on the following:

1.  Concerning the timing wherein Christ the King and Christ's kingdom shall come down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.
2.  Concerning the events that shall immediately follow this coming of Christ the King and Christ's kingdom down out of heaven to be located and "based" on the earth.

Am I correct in my above understanding?

Brother Scott

Yes I believe so.  

Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

When Jesus returns with His Church, his kingdom will be on earth.
His Church is his spiritual kingdom now. 

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38 minutes ago, Invicta said:

Brother Scott

Yes I believe so.  

Col 1:13  Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

When Jesus returns with His Church, his kingdom will be on earth.
His Church is his spiritual kingdom now. 

Amen! concerning Colossians 1:13.

On the other hand, I am not certain that I myself would narrow our Lord Jesus Christ's "spiritual kingdom now" to just "His Church."  At first thought, I would include the Old Testament believers therein as well.

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1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Amen! concerning Colossians 1:13.

On the other hand, I am not certain that I myself would narrow our Lord Jesus Christ's "spiritual kingdom now" to just "His Church."  At first thought, I would include the Old Testament believers therein as well.

! agree with that but I would include OT believers in the church.

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55 minutes ago, Invicta said:

! agree with that but I would include OT believers in the church.

Ahhh.  Well then we would also have a disagreement concerning the definition of "the church," what I would call specifically -- "the New Testament church."

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1 minute ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

Ahhh.  Well then we would also have a disagreement concerning the definition of "the church," what I would call specifically -- "the New Testament church."

Would you like to expand on that?

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16 hours ago, Invicta said:

! agree with that but I would include OT believers in the church.

No OT believers are in the church. John the Baptist, the greatest OT saint, was said to be a "friend" of the bridegroom. Until Christians get this down they'll keep breaking their theological necks on the bible. Just about every false doctrine is the appropriation of scripture from one group of people in the bible to another group of people. The Catholic Church is an expert at this.

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John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

We come to Christ looking back, the OT believers came to Christ by looking forward,
 

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2 hours ago, Genevanpreacher said:

A believer is a believer is a believer... no matter before or after the cross.

The same God in the OT and the NT - and are still made up of three persons - and still saves when belief of the heart is inside a person.

 

22 minutes ago, Invicta said:

John 14:6  Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Acts 4:12  Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

We come to Christ looking back, the OT believers came to Christ by looking forward,
 

Certainly, both of these declarations are Biblically true.  However, these truths are NOT the point that would be under question.  Rather, the point that would be under question is whether or not the church that our Lord Jesus Christ called His church, which He promised to engage in building, existed prior to the time (dispensation) of the New Testament, that is -- in the time (dispensation) of the Old Testament.

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1 hour ago, Pastor Scott Markle said:

 

Certainly, both of these declarations are Biblically true.  However, these truths are NOT the point that would be under question.  Rather, the point that would be under question is whether or not the church that our Lord Jesus Christ called His church, which He promised to engage in building, existed prior to the time (dispensation) of the New Testament, that is -- in the time (dispensation) of the Old Testament.

Moses knew his name was in the book, which I consider to be the book of life.

Exodus 32: 30 ¶  And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. 31  And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. 32  Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin — ; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.33  And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.34  Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

Daniel knew about this book.

Daniel 12:1 ¶  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The same event I believe which the Lord referred to in Matt 24:15 and following, also in Mark and Luke.
 

I will add that there may not have been a believing church in OT days (I am not suggesting either way) but I understand that OT believers were incorporated into the NT church.  I admit that John the Baptist is a difficulty, but was he saved?

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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

Moses knew his name was in the book, which I consider to be the book of life.

Exodus 32: 30 ¶  And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the LORD; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. 31  And Moses returned unto the LORD, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. 32  Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin — ; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written.33  And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book.34  Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.

Daniel knew about this book.

Daniel 12:1 ¶  And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

The same event I believe which the Lord referred to in Matt 24:15 and following, also in Mark and Luke.

Brother David,

What does any of this, although Biblical truth, have to do with the question as to whether or not the church that our Lord Jesus Christ called His church existed at that time of the Old Testament?

2 hours ago, Invicta said:

I will add that there may not have been a believing church in OT days (I am not suggesting either way) but I understand that OT believers were incorporated into the NT church.

Could you provide your Biblical evidence that Old Testament believers were incorporated into the New Testament church?

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