No need to Go To Prison___Gay Wedding Vows

[swathdiver]

There are pastors who will marry anyone for money, then there are pastors who will only marry church members in good standing; the way it is supposed to be.

An unrepentant and lost sodomite cannot be a member of any New Testament Church.  Well, now that I said that, I'm sure John81 is going to find some whacky congregation who voted them in!  Well, mebbe they did, but tis ain't bible!

[John81]

2 hours ago, swathdiver said:

There are pastors who will marry anyone for money, then there are pastors who will only marry church members in good standing; the way it is supposed to be.

An unrepentant and lost sodomite cannot be a member of any New Testament Church.  Well, now that I said that, I'm sure John81 is going to find some whacky congregation who voted them in!  Well, mebbe they did, but tis ain't bible!

There are indeed churches which have active sodomite members, but that's totally against Scripture. Other churches are heading in that direction as they have active adulterous members that's totally against Scripture, but they refuse to initiate church discipline. Other churches are so intent upon showing themselves to be pro-women elevate divorced women to positions of leadership and set their churches on course for ruin. All of these are conducting themselves in opposition to Scripture.

Many pastors will marry anyone just so they can increase their income. That's wrong and should serve as a sign the church needs to correct their pastor or get a new one.

We should all thank God for those pastors and churches which refuse to compromise in performing marriages for the sake of popularity or money.

[Ukulelemike]

9 hours ago, swathdiver said:

There are pastors who will marry anyone for money, then there are pastors who will only marry church members in good standing; the way it is supposed to be.

An unrepentant and lost sodomite cannot be a member of any New Testament Church.  Well, now that I said that, I'm sure John81 is going to find some whacky congregation who voted them in!  Well, mebbe they did, but tis ain't bible!

Where in the Bible does it say only believers can be married? I have married unbelievers, but I don't marry believers to unbelievers. Assuming all are honest. I don't have to have someone be a member of my church to marry them-I can use the wedding ceremony to give the gospel, as I do.  If they are going to come to me, they are going to hear gospel.

[Old-Pilgrim]

22 hours ago, John81 said:

I believe she was simply pointing out that asking you if you are Welsh is off topic but she decided to ask anyway.

lol, you might be right. I thought she was picking on me.

[Salyan]

No - my heritage is Welsh. I grew up near Wood River, which was a huge Welsh settlement back in the day. Just thought it was cool if you were Welsh.

[Old-Pilgrim]

On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 at 4:43 PM, MountainChristian said:

What about jumping the broom?

i think they do that in Gretna green at the Scottish/English border

On Thursday, March 03, 2016 at 3:44 PM, Salyan said:

No - my heritage is Welsh. I grew up near Wood River, which was a huge Welsh settlement back in the day. Just thought it was cool if you were Welsh.

No I'm Scottish, I live in Wales.

[Invicta]

I have a friend who lives in Wales.  He is a teacher but couldn't get a job there as to be a teacher in Wales you have to speak Welsh and he didn't, even though it is an English speaking area and few speak Welsh. The last time we went to Wales was for the funeral of his wife who died quite young.  He was hoping to be a pastor but could only get itinerant posts.  

 

[Invicta]

On 9/6/2015 at 10:29 PM, Old-Pilgrim said:

Hello, One for Pastors,

I hear there is a Minister near us who decided not to get the Legal Authority to marry people, this was many years ago, perhaps he saw the legal trap coming down the road, If the Minister isn't qualified to legally marry, then he can't be accused of not marrying sodomites. Just a thought.

You might ask what has a Christian couple to do if he wants married? well I hear in this country (Wales) that the Brethren marry fellow Christians but it is in the eyes only of God and the other Brethren who attend the service, I assume they don't agree with needing State Approval to seal the wedding. You might ask what about a legal certificate? well all I can say is Obama isn't Moses, neither is Cameron. I guess we as Christians would need to just trust the LORD to judge between a husband and wife in the case of divorce.

Yes I got done legally by a Minister who probably wasn't Christian, because it is the tradition and there was no pressure not to.

I don't think you have to have authority in the UK to conduct marriage services. You have to have an approved person to oversee the service and signing of the register, or to have a registrar from the registry office come and do the legal bit.  When our church secretary got married the church didn't have an approved person so they had to book a visiting registrar.  Unfortunately at the time the registrars had a strike and were refusing to go out, so they had to get married in the registry office then have a service in the church, but they had to give the registrar the exact wording of the service as it couldn't be a marriage service as that would mean they were married twice and that would be illegal.

[Old-Pilgrim]

3 hours ago, Invicta said:

I don't think you have to have authority in the UK to conduct marriage services. You have to have an approved person to oversee the service and signing of the register, or to have a registrar from the registry office come and do the legal bit.  When our church secretary got married the church didn't have an approved person so they had to book a visiting registrar.  Unfortunately at the time the registrars had a strike and were refusing to go out, so they had to get married in the registry office then have a service in the church, but they had to give the registrar the exact wording of the service as it couldn't be a marriage service as that would mean they were married twice and that would be illegal.

I am guessing that the legal bit is not compulsory. So Christians could meet in a non state church and have non state wedding. The marriage might not be recognized by the Government, but it will be by God, and the Church.

[Old-Pilgrim]

On Tuesday, March 22, 2016 at 6:38 PM, Invicta said:

I have a friend who lives in Wales.  He is a teacher but couldn't get a job there as to be a teacher in Wales you have to speak Welsh and he didn't, even though it is an English speaking area and few speak Welsh. The last time we went to Wales was for the funeral of his wife who died quite young.  He was hoping to be a pastor but could only get itinerant posts.  

 

I know teachers here who aren't Welsh speakers, but apparently they are expected to use some Welsh terms, one of them told me also that every time the name of the false prophet Mohamed is spoken they are supposed to parrot some phrase about him. I wouldn't know anything about how one becomes a pastor of an established Church. I know up our way [Scotland] we got together and started a church in a hired hall, they now have a building. I can't actually remember now the exact details, but I remember making inquiry on how to become a Charity, I think in the UK you normally need to become a Business or a Charity if you want an 'official' meeting, although I was told by a JW that the Brethren get round that because their meetings are so small. I think the Gov's leverage is that there is money involved, so they get their nose in the door. I guess there might be other laws. To become a charity you need to send a statement of intent or sort of define your 'charities' purpose, they will either grant you a charity status or tell you why you don't qualify, then you need to amend the offending words and reapply. There doesn't seem to be a definition in statute written down anywhere of what does and doesn't qualify.

The AOG leadership tried to keep it hidden from us as much as they could, when they were becoming a charity, perhaps they didn't want us to know the Government was bossing them about, or perhaps they didn't want us to know that the Government was granting us more rights concerning the property than were currently afforded us. And the Gov told them that there had to be an annual business meeting and we could have a look at 'the books' etc. I think unofficial house groups would be the way ahead. [It seems to me that as a church becomes 'established' it starts to die.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Old-Pilgrim

[Invicta]

Churches don't have to register to be a charity.  As a place f worship they are automatically a charity unless their annual income is more than a  certain amount.  It was £100,000.00  but there were intending to bring that down gradually until all churches have to register, I don't know if the have started to bring the limit down.  You have to register with the Inland Revenue if you want co claim income tax back on donations (gift aid)  You should also get insurance for the Elders/deacons as they could be liable for unlimited damages, with all their assets at risk, in case of any claim against the church.  There is a new legal way around that and that is for the church to become a CIO which I think stands for Charitable Incorporated Organisation. In that case the church becomes liable instead of the leaders unless they are deemed to be negligent who are considered acting trustees.  Our church is thinking of that, but it is quite costly to set up as it has to be done by a lawyer.  

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Though slightly off tangent from the OP -- for the sake of those islanders across either body of water from the U.S. (and those looking over the top of the fence north of us):

In the U.S. there is a lot of mistaken ideas and misinformation concerning the following info.

A church is started. As a church, it is automatically considered tax exempt (according to US tax code section 501 (C) (3) without having to incorporate, register, or request a not-for-profit letter.)

A church which incorporates (for legal protection for leaders) does so through state (not federal) incorporation law. Unincorporated churches do not have to have trustees, incorporated ones must meet the state corporation requirements for trustees. As a side note, there are conditions under which an incorporated church can lose said protection for corporate officers (known as "piercing the veil").

The intent of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (the first through tenth are known as the "Bill of Rights") states that Congress shall not restrict nor infringe the freedom of religion, speech and press. This has been verified in the courts as exempting churches and the press from taxation (this has also been folded, stapled and mutilated by the government). The reason for this lack of taxation is simple -- the government can control said activity and function via cleverly manipulated, applied and directed taxation. The current rhetorical ploy is to say something doesn't violate your "freedom of worship" when the Constitutional protection is "freedom of religion" which can be a HUGE legal difference.

Preachers and churches are not required by local, state nor federal law to perform marriages. Preachers are considered to be volunteers or to be self-employed independent contractors (unless they have set things up as employees of the church). More on that in a later post, we are about to go haul bus kids home just ahead of a blizzard (unless they do like last time and have the drivers out in the middle of the blizzard).

[Invicta]

5 hours ago, OLD fashioned preacher said:

Though slightly off tangent from the OP -- for the sake of those islanders across either body of water from the U.S. (and those looking over the top of the fence north of us):

In the U.S. there is a lot of mistaken ideas and misinformation concerning the following info.

A church is started. As a church, it is automatically considered tax exempt (according to US tax code section 501 (C) (3) without having to incorporate, register, or request a not-for-profit letter.

A church which incorporates (for legal protection for leaders) does so through state (not federal) incorporation law. Unincorporated churches do not have to have trustees, incorporated ones must meet the state corporation requirements for trustees. As a side note, there are conditions under which an incorporated church can lose said protection for corporate officers (known as "piercing the veil").

The intent of the 1st Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (the first through tenth are known as the "Bill of Rights") states that Congress shall not restrict nor infringe the freedom of religion, speech and press. This has been verified in the courts as exempting churches and the press from taxation (this has also been folded, stapled and mutilated by the government). The reason for this lack of taxation is simple -- the government can control said activity and function via cleverly manipulated, applied and directed taxation. The current rhetorical ploy is to say something doesn't violate your "freedom of worship" when the Constitutional protection is "freedom of religion" which can be a HUGE legal difference.

Preachers and churches are not required by local, state nor federal law to perform marriages. Preachers are considered to be volunteers or to be self-employed independent contractors (unless they have set things up as employees of the church). More on that in a later post, we are about to go haul bus kids home just ahead of a blizzard (unless they do like last time and have the drivers out in the middle of the blizzard).

Just a couple of points from your post.

In the UK churches and other religions are automatically considered charities unless the Charity Commission considers them not acting as charities.

Charities cannot own property so have to appoint trustees who own the property and the trust deed.  

Under recent laws, the officers of the church are considered trustees on the spot as it were.  (I cannot remember the exact wording)

Our trustees are the FIEC before that the trustees were the Evangelical Alliance. IF we become a CIO the church can own its own properties and we won't need outside trustees,  One of our members who is a lawyer is looking in to it.

Churches do not have to perform marriages, except for Church of England. 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2016 by Invicta

[OLD fashioned preacher]

On to employment tax issues: If a preacher is a volunteer (no monies from the church) then his only tax obligation is obviously from other income sources, i.e. secular jobs.

In the U.S. you have a Federal income tax (on a graduated scale affected by many factors), sometimes a state income tax and then a combined Social Security / Medicare tax (old age retirement supplement / medical supplement). If you are an employee (we'll call the company 'Slobs4Hire') then 7.8% of your gross pay is withheld for Soc Sec/Medi and then your employer (S4H) has to match that figure from their own money. If you are self employed then you are on the hook for the whole 15.6%. This is just Soc Sec / Medi, not counting income tax.

It has often been said that a preacher does not have to pay taxes - not true. Here's where that rumor came from: if you take a "vow of poverty" you do not have to pay taxes. This is what the RCC does here, the priests don't receive financial compensation and do not own a home or car. However, the RCC owns all the items and the priest live in luxury. Also the Old Order Amish who have an established history and dogma of not receiving government assistance and of maintaining the community needs. Going beyond the RCC, a preacher can opt for a Social Security exemption. He still has to pay Federal and State income tax but not Soc Sec / Medi. He cannot, however collect Soc Sec or Medicare regardless of how much he has paid in prior to the exemption. Also, if he receives any work wages from a secular job (what many deem as bi-vocational) he has to pay the 8.7% (employee) or 15.6% (self-employed) and still never collect. You are allowed to rescind a tax exempt status only once in your lifetime

[No Nicolaitans]

This is all so very taxing...