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Rewards and Gifts.

Hello All

Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If the Christian is going to be freely given all things then how can he then be given more for a reward?

I have heard a preacher whom I greatly respect suggest that Christians who squander their life will be saved but eternally sorry.

Does anyone see a seeming contradiction in verses such as these?

 

 

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I have heard some teach that our rewards will last for eternity, but to me this would create an imperfect heaven, with the lesser Christians being forever lower in some way, less glowing.

I think a scriptural answer is that the reward is Praise from God,1Co 4:5 or an abundant entrance,2Pe 1:11 and will probably last about as long as the fire which is entered through by all Christians,1Co 3:15 then the praise, which will be given back to him who is worthy, then all being finally pure in actuality will enter into Eternity proper and be equal in all perfection.

This might not sound like much reward or loss, but I think it could be many times the sum of a lifetime on earth as far as intensity of emotion and vividness goes, and it will certainly be very extreme good or bad at the time, it would need to be 'bad' first (fire) otherwise the 'good,' abundant entrance would be marred.

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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Hi Old-Pilgrim, You quoted Roman 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"

Wouldn't it be logical to take it in context by backing up a few verses to verse 28 you will see the words "all things" again, could that be the same "all things" he was speaking of?
Would it not be logical to assume that it does in fact mean the same "all things" in both verses?

" And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

So what are the "all things" referring to? He references this by telling us specifically that God spared not His own son and delivered Him up for us all, so I deduce that he means "all things" which are given us by the substitution of Jesus on the cross for my sins. What things? His righteousness imparted upon me so that my sins are forgiven which means I also get eternal life with Him as well as an uncorruptible body which will never again die, etc. (after being saved).

And would it not be obvious that in 1st Corinthians 3:14 he was speaking of our rewards after this life wherein we (the saved/bride) will be judged not for salvation (as our salvation is eternally secure) but for the works we did for the Lord while we were here on earth and what our true motives were for each work done.
I believe we are saved by grace and not by works. Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
So our salvation is not what is judged here, However, we will have our works cast into a fire and I understand that to mean that if those works were not of pure intent, they will be burned up, as though I'd never done them. 
Remember, all our righteousness are as filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6) ... and remember He is going to clothe us (the saved/bride) with white linen Revelation 19:7-8


so... in my understanding... let's say I was one of those people who liked to make a big pretentious prayer in front of a lot of people just for show... what kind of a reward would I get for that in eternity? It would be burned up as though I'd never done it since I did it purely for others to see and not to truly glorify God.
BUT, let's say I was a person who truly prayed for others, and I did so in private where no-one but God an I heard... and let's say I really meant it? I wouldn't think that would be something that would be burned up.
That might not have been a good example, but I'm at a lack for thinking of something else right at the moment, lol.  I hope you see my reasoning.

I think the pastor you heard may have been on the right track (in my understanding)... and notice we are NOT talking about salvation being contingent upon any works (it is not), but we are talking about rewards for works (of the saved person).

Let's say person #1 was someone who truly cared about the Lord, they would likely want to do good things for Him, such as spread the gospel, help others, etc. and would likely try to live a life pleasing to God.  Let's say person #2  didn't give much thought to others or to pleasing God in their life, and let's say both person #1 and person #2 both accepted Jesus as their savior at some point in their lifetime, how would it be fair that person #1 and person #2 both got the exact same rewards?  They already BOTH got a reward they didn't deserve... eternal salvation AND an uncorruptible body... (which none of us deserve and can only obtain through the righteousness of Jesus imparted upon us when we are saved). Do you see my point? 

Why else would God make it clear throughout scripture how we are to live? If we all got the exact same reward it wouldn't make sense.

So my answer here is:    I believe the reward spoken about in 1st Corinthians 3:14 refers to the scripture passages above and below such as verse 15: "15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." And the verse Romans 8:32 is a different subject as I described above.

I'm not trying to be discourteous, I simply don't see the conflict since the verses appear to be speaking about 2 separate issues (to me).

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Please explain further, "StandingFirm".  I think we agree on 1 Cor. 3:14 as being what we know to be the judgment of the saved/bride. Some circles call it the "bema" judgment.

I'm not trying to sway your opinion, I would just like to understand your point of view... How could the "all things" mean ALL things here on earth? Wouldn't that be like some of those TV evangelists who preach on prosperity say that "all Christians will be prosperous because the bible says He will freely give us ALL things?"  

I ask why would the wording be such: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Why wouldn't he just say that He will freely give us all things here on earth? Instead he directly stated first that He gave Jesus up for us and then he stated that WITH HIM (Jesus) He will also freely give us all things.  Do you think the "all things" mean certain specific things here on earth (like all the things that we DO get here on earth are the "all things"), or do you think it means anything we ask for?  Please help me understand your point of view. 

 

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Rewards and Gifts.

Hello All

Ro 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.

If the Christian is going to be freely given all things then how can he then be given more for a reward?

I have heard a preacher whom I greatly respect suggest that Christians who squander their life will be saved but eternally sorry.

Does anyone see a seeming contradiction in verses such as these?

 

 

And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Question: Does anyone see a seeming contradiction in verses such as these? No

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

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Not at all like the televangelists.  That which We ask for should not be to satisfy wants.  If we ask, only to have wants satisfied, that is wrong motive.  And, as James says, we will not receive in that instance.

 

however, the reason I believe that the "all things" of Romans 8:32 is speaking of things in this life, is because our heavenly rewards are contingent on works in this life; they are not free.  We must work for them.   

 

But, if we are of Christ, and asking with the right motives and according to His will, I believe He bestows things to us in this life according to our need.  No work involved.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
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Dear "Standing Firm"  

Thank you for your response.   I believe that salvation is not contingent upon works.
 And next: I agree that the rewards/crowns are works based and motives based (and God knows the true motives behind every work done by every saved person) are given us not in this life, but instead when He judges our works. 1st Corinthians 3:13-15 "Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

And these rewards/crowns are spoken of in the bible in various places such as:
James 1:12, 1st Corinthians 9:25, 2nd Timothy 4:8, 1st Peter 5:4, Matthew 5:11-12, 1st Corinthians 3:8, 3:14, Hebrews 11:6, 2nd John 1:8, et al

And third: I agree with your statement: "But, if we are of Christ, and asking with the right motives and according to His will, I believe He bestows things to us in this life according to our need.  No work involved."
And yes, I also agree that we should not ask for "wants", and that is the wrong motive. 

I think we agree on everything except that one phrase "all things" in Romans 8:32.  
Why? The chapter starts out with a presentation of how (after salvation through Jesus) the Spirit is working within our human bodies.
This "train of thought" continues from verse 1-16
Then verses 17-25 speak of the sufferings of this present time, and how we "groan within ourselves" while we are waiting for the redemption of our bodies, and how we must wait with patience (for the redemption of our bodies which won't occur until we either die a physical death or are raptured to be with the Lord).
and the remaining verses after verse 32 also speak of various things (on this earth) that could happen, but even if those things did happen, it would NOT separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus. Verse 37 states "in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us". 
So... after reading the verses above and below and the "train of thought" of the whole chapter, it would seem unlikely that he was speaking of "ALL THINGS" here on earth.  

I do pray for spiritual guidance, I believe "the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered". When I read the bible, I am not just reading, but truly studying, desiring that God show me His will within His words and wanting God to give me guidance in understanding.
And so when I read this verse, when taken in context to the entire chapter and theme of the chapter, I still come to the conclusion that the "all things" are not here on earth, because the verse is specific about God delivering His son up for us (to pay for our sins and reconcile us to Him), and then more specifically, He will give us "all things" how? "with Him" (Jesus).

Having said all of that, I am willing to admit I could be WRONG! That's why I continue to study and have fellowship with other believers. I do appreciate your answer!

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Hello Ronda, You Said>>

>>>>And would it not be obvious that in 1st Corinthians 3:14 he was speaking of our rewards after this life wherein we (the saved/bride) will be judged not for salvation (as our salvation is eternally secure) but for the works we did for the Lord while we were here on earth and what our true motives were for each work done.
I believe we are saved by grace and not by works.
Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:"
So our salvation is not what is judged here, However, we will have our works cast into a fire and I understand that to mean that if those works were not of pure intent, they will be burned up, as though I'd never done them. 
Remember, all our righteousness are as filthy rags (
Isaiah 64:6) ... and remember He is going to clothe us (the saved/bride) with white linen Revelation 19:7-8

I think the pastor you heard may have been on the right track (in my understanding)... and notice we are NOT talking about salvation being contingent upon any works (it is not), but we are talking about rewards for works (of the saved person).

Let's say person #1 was someone who truly cared about the Lord, they would likely want to do good things for Him, such as spread the gospel, help others, etc. and would likely try to live a life pleasing to God.  Let's say person #2  didn't give much thought to others or to pleasing God in their life, and let's say both person #1 and person #2 both accepted Jesus as their savior at some point in their lifetime, how would it be fair that person #1 and person #2 both got the exact same rewards?  They already BOTH got a reward they didn't deserve... eternal salvation AND an uncorruptible body... (which none of us deserve and can only obtain through the righteousness of Jesus imparted upon us when we are saved). Do you see my point? <<<<<

Hello Ronda, 

I agree with that part basicly, apart from Salvation/Eternal Life is a Free Gift, a gift is distinct from a reward in that it is a different type, or a different sort or category. A reward is like a wage, one works and is due a reward or wage, so it is paid as an obligation, based upon the terms of the work contract or agreement, or based upon the normal laws of nature. Salvation is a free Gift, God quite appart from legal rights or obobligations, wrought salvation and offers it as a Gift to whoever will accept it within the terms of the offer.

I agree that the rewards which different Christians get will be very different, good and bad for each Christian, otherwise God would be unjust, I believe God is fair in the way we would normal understand fair, and just in the normal sense of the word.

But I also Believe that the rewards if they were to last for eternity would be supper-ceded and become null and void and be swallowed up with and by the Gift, because I think Gods nature dictates that his love and grace overwhelm his justice, and so he would primarily prefer to give us all things due to his grace rather than withhold any blessing because we never earned or deserved it.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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I think the loss of rewards may apply primarily to the 1000 years when we reign with Christ-since this is before the time all tears will be wiped away. So our rulership will be greater or lessened according to our rewards, perhaps? But I agree with Mountain, above, that once we enter eternity fully, those things will be gone. I wonder if everything about our human lives may be gone completely, fully realizing being new creatures. I may be wrong, but interesting to think upon.

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All interesting thoughts... but in the bible it does tell us some things about some of the rewards and crowns some receive at the judgment of the saved (1st Corinthians 3: 13-15).
Here are some verses that let us know that at least some (if not all) of these crowns/rewards are eternal:

1st Corinthians 9:24-25  24 "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain."
25 "And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible."

Verse 25 tells us that crown is "uncorruptible"

1st Peter 5:4 "4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away."

That verse tells us that particular crown "fadeth not away".

So that would lead me to believe that if those 2 rewards/crowns are eternal, they may all be eternal? 
No, I'm not aware of a verse that states every crown and reward is eternal, however, since these 2 examples show that at least these 2 crowns are eternal it would be more likely that they all were eternal.
Eternity lasts eons past the thousand year reign, and so I would believe that at least those 2 crowns from the verses above last past the thousand year reign. 

Yes, I agree, salvation is a free gift and is distinct from a reward in that it is a gift. (Ephesians 2:8)
And the verse I was referencing the "all things"was Romans 8:32 "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?"
Once again, it says "with Him also FREELY GIVE us all things" which I believe it is referring to the FREE GIFT of salvation through Jesus as I attempted to explain, and I do not (personally) think it's referring to things on this earth.

Yes, I also agree that a reward is something entirely different than a free gift, and I do not think Romans 8:32 is referencing the rewards that will be given to the saved/church at the judgment of the saved/church.
Which is the point why (in part) I believe 1st Corinthians 3:14 is not speaking about the same things/events as Romans 8:32 at all.

So I have to disagree with your first initial statement, "Old-Pilgrim" when you said: "I have heard some teach that our rewards will last for eternity, but to me this would create an imperfect heaven, with the lesser Christians being forever lower in some way, less glowing."
Because I believe the rewards ARE contingent upon the efforts and motives each of us put forth.  (assuming we are saved-since to qualify for the judgment for rewards we must first be saved before we would have our works tried as by fire)
I also believe God is righteous.  And by rewarding those who worked hard for His glory and with pure motives would NOT be imperfect, but instead perfect! God is a rewarder of them (saved) that do good!
1st Corinthians 3:8 "Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour."

notice... according to his own labor! So let's say person #1 "labored" and person #2 did not "labor" in spreading the gospel.  Why would a righteous God give person #2 the same reward as person #1 when the effort wasn't put into it by person #2?
That would be unrighteous (in my mind). And we know God is, in fact, righteous. 

Psalm 50:6 "And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself. Selah."

I respectfully disagree with your (OP) statement:" I think Gods nature dictates that his love and grace overwhelm his justice, and so he would primarily prefer to give us all things due to his grace rather than withhold any blessing because we never earned or deserved it."
I can't find any biblical standing on your theory.  I don't see how it's possible that God's love and grace "overwhelm" His justice? If you have a verse for that, I'm willing to study further!

And Ukelemike: I told you why I disagreed about (at least 2 of) the crowns being eternal.  But I have to say I tend to agree with your thought about everything about our human lives being "gone" in the New Heavens and New Earth, because of Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."
as well as Isaiah 65:17 "For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind."
and I do agree wholeheartedly... it is interesting to think about (even though we can't fully imagine since we are right now "looking through a dark glass" with our limited imaginations), but just imagine how wonderful beyond our comprehension of what wonderful is!!!
1st Corinthians 13:12 "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known."
and 1st Corinthians 2:9 "But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."

Now that's not to say that eternal crowns would be something we'd "forget" (probably just opened up another can of worms here, lol)

And Eric: Glad to see you back on the forum! Yes indeed, Daniel 12:3 says: "And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever."
so if we are wise (wise in God's eyes, not our own eyes- read Isaiah 5:21) and it also applies to "they that turn many to righteousness".
You made an excellent point here about ETERNAL rewards...  How long does Daniel 12:3 say they will shine? "for ever and ever" !

This has been a great day of study for me! It's so wonderful to have the priviledge of getting into God's word and searching out His wisdom! I often think we take for granted that we CAN pick up our bibles and read and study here in the US without fear of imprisonment (or worse) as in many countries (especially in the middle east right now) they don't have that luxury!!! I pray we won't have the persecution here in the US that so many of those in other countries must endure.  So while we have the freedom to read and discuss bible matters, I plan to do just that (God willing)!

 

 

 

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And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Question: Does anyone see a seeming contradiction in verses such as these? No

Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.

I agree, no more sorrow, But

Ga 4:7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

this can mean either I am an heir to al that God has, or that I am an heir of God Himself, or both.

1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

I believe the al the above is freely given. 'how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?' Rom 8:32

So my point is what reward could exist in His Presence?

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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Ronda said>>>>I respectfully disagree with your (OP) statement:" I think Gods nature dictates that his love and grace overwhelm his justice, and so he would primarily prefer to give us all things due to his grace rather than withhold any blessing because we never earned or deserved it."
I can't find any biblical standing on your theory.  I don't see how it's possible that God's love and grace "overwhelm" His justice? If you have a verse for that, I'm willing to study further<<<

1Jo 4:16 God is Love

I am referring to the saved in Christ BTW

Edited by Old-Pilgrim
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sory my keyboard is typing like this<<<< mising keys and sticking.

I thing the reward is described in pasing in 2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

I think the crowns are symbolic of praise.

1Co 4:5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Re 4:10 The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

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