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I see Romans 8:32 as pertaining to "things" in this life.

I see 1 Corinthians 3:14 as pertaining to "rewards" in the life to come.

Brethren,

In one sense I agree with Standing Firm in Christ and in one sense I do not.

Some of the blessings after salvation are physical and spiritual; but, not all things. The context of Romans 8 is several things in the life of the believer. Romans 8:14 deal with the walking in the flesh verses walking in the Spirit life of the believer.

Romans 8:15-23 is dealing with the redemption of the body and of nature itself, and Romans 8:24-31 deal with the working of the Spirit in our life and the eteranl blessings of salvation. Romans 8:35-39 is indeed talking about how after salvation a lot of saints endure extreme persecution and sorrows of the flesh, and as a saint endures these persecutions, and have good works, they will indeed receive rewards in heaven.

In relation to Romans 8 some of the spiritual blessings are also set forth in Galatians 5::22 and 23. I have happily discovered that once these spiritual  fruits of the Spirit came into my life and replaced the fruits of my flesh, in this context,  I have had Romans 8:32, "He that spared not his own Son, but delievered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things." Primarily that is speaking of the numerous spiritual blessings that come in the life of every believer, and, once the fruits of the Spirit (please bear with me and  understand I do not mean anything in the Charismatic sense of the word),  exhibit themselves in our lives we can a portion of the spiritual blessings on our lives here on this earth.

So, in one aspect these verses, Romans 8:32 and 1 Corinthians 3:14 are intertwined, yet they are separate as Standing Firm in Christ as stated. And, maybe, we are making much ado over different aspects of the Christian life that are hard to sort out, or may not be for us to fully sort them out.

Old-Pilgrim,

I have not discussed much in this thread as I do not fully follow some of the reasonings involved in the discussion and decided to let well enough alone.  

 

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Alan: I agree that the spiritual blessings of Galatians 5:22-23 are the fruits of the Spirit we receive here on  this earth also: 

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,"  "Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." 

and that once we exhibit these attributes in our lives we receive Spiritual blessings on this earth.  

Old-Pilgrim: I am still baffled by your last response...  our WORKS can be burned/consumed by fire, but not we ourselves.  But not ALL works will be burned/consumed by fire.... The Lord will be the righteous judge who will determine if each work was done truly for Him and for His glory and if the work was done according to His standards. 

  1st Corinthians 3: 13" Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." 14 "If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward." 15 "If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

I don't understand your statement about "will you shrug it off as if it were nothing"? Do you mean for the works that were burned up (you will shrug off)? Or the reward for the work which met God's standards and you will receive a reward for that then... do you mean you will "shrug off" the reward? Sorry, I can't follow what your trying to say.

 

 

 

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In relation to Romans 8 some of the spiritual blessings are also set forth in Galatians 5::22 and 23. I have happily discovered that once these spiritual  fruits of the Spirit came into my life and replaced the fruits of my flesh, in this context,  I have had

Romans 8:32

, "He that spared not his own Son, but delievered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things." Primarily that is speaking of the numerous spiritual blessings that come in the life of every believer, and, once the fruits of the Spirit (please bear with me and  understand I do not mean anything in the Charismatic sense of the word),  exhibit themselves in our lives we can a portion of the spiritual blessings on our lives here on this earth...

Big Amen to this. Without the wisdom of many on here, even so when I read that chapter I come to same conclusion as Alan and Ronda about Romans 8:32. The way I read it, "all things" is a more generalised reference to the "these things" spoken of in verse 32, which in turn are referred to in the preceding verses: the things the Holy Spirit already does for saved believers (verse 26), and the things we hope to receive, i.e. the redemption of our bodies spoken of in verse 23. Verse 24 points out that part of being Christian is having hope for more to come, for why would it be hope if what we've already been given is all we will get? Verse 31 pre-empts the question an observer might ask at this point: how can we be justified in expecting these things and hoping for more? The answer given is that God justifies (verse 33). Verse 32 uses the cross as an example of God's character: God the Father was prepared to sacrifice his own son for us, so why wouldn't a god of that character give these things freely?

On to the point about rewards--I'll admit I've not really studied this topic but have (probably naive) questions about it. Ronda asks why would the Lord make it clear how we are to live if, in the end, we weren't going to get a reward proportional to how well we obeyed. Of course, that begs the question: why do we serve the Lord? Do we do it out of self interest (for the rewards) or do we do it because we love God? If the rewards weren't promised, would we not bother? Perhaps there's no contradiction in motivation between doing things for our sake and doing things for Christ's sake--it's an open question from me!

Finally, Ronda and others have questioned whether God would be just or righteous for not rewarding in proportion to work put in:

Why would a righteous God give person #2 the same reward as person #1 when the effort wasn't put into it by person #2?

The obvious thing that springs to mind at this point is the parable of the workers in the vineyard (Matt 20:1-16). Can someone with a bit more wisdom than me speak on whether this parable is relevant? :)

 

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Alimantado said, "Of course, that begs the question: why do we serve the Lord? Do we do it out of self interest (for the rewards) or do we do it because we love God? If the rewards weren't promised, would we not bother? Perhaps there's no contradiction in motivation between doing things for our sake and doing things for Christ's sake--it's an open question from me!"

God looks at the heart of each individual and determines the motive for doing a certain work.

"Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." Proverbs 4:23 The lady who gave a widows mite out of a heart of love gave more, yea, will receive more rewards in heaven for her giving, then the rich men who gave out of their abundance and not from the heart.

God told Samuel, "But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as a man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but th LORD looketh on the heart." 1 Samuel 16:7

At the Judgment Seat of Christ all of our rewards will be determined by the motive of our heart.

Important note: This note is for our Calvinist brethren.

The heart of man is the free will of man. The Lord Jesus in Mark 7:21-23 said, "For from within out of the heart of man, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, and evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these evil things come from within, and defile the man." The heart of man makes every decison in life. The heart is the will of man: the free will of man given by God.

Alan

 

 

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On Tuesday, September 08, 2015 at 7:54 PM, Ukulelemike said:

I think the loss of rewards may apply primarily to the 1000 years when we reign with Christ-since this is before the time all tears will be wiped away. So our rulership will be greater or lessened according to our rewards, perhaps? But I agree with Mountain, above, that once we enter eternity fully, those things will be gone. I wonder if everything about our human lives may be gone completely, fully realizing being new creatures. I may be wrong, but interesting to think upon.

I think I'd agree with something like that.The Scripture bellow might be a summary of the reward. Key word being Abundant and entrance, so the reward although in heaven is still a temporal reward.

2Pe 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

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On Wednesday, September 09, 2015 at 1:31 AM, Ronda said:

I'm sorry, Old-pilgrim, I don't understand your last entry. What do you mean will you shrug the fire off as if nothing? Do you think you will go through a fire? I just don't understand what you are saying, sorry.  

I was trying to say although the rewards and losses are temporal, they will still be a big deal.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

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On Tuesday, September 08, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Eric Stahl said:

Daniel 12:2-3 tells us that our brightness will show our faithfulness forever.

not all who rise to eternal life will shine like stars but just those who turn many to the faith, I think this might be a reference to people like Paul the apostle and Peter and Andrew &co. who shine for ever as long as the earth remains..

Da 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Da 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

I don't think it will be a earthly light. just like,

2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

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14 minutes ago, Old-Pilgrim said:

I was trying to say although the rewards and losses are temporal, they will still be a big deal.

1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Sorry, but I don't agree. The rewards are not temporal, the rewards are eternal. 1 Cor. 3:13-14 is the judgment for rewards (not for salvation) . The rewards are eternal. For example...  1 Cor. 9:25, 2 Timothy 4:8.  Life on earth (in human bodies) is what is temporal. Anything we receive (material possessions) on earth right now are temporal blessings and can't be taken with us when we physically die (or are raptured).  However, as we serve the Lord we gain eternal rewards. He will judge us (not for salvation because if we have believed  upon Jesus for salvation, our salvation is secure), but we will be judged on whether or not the things we did (on earth  in our human bodies) is either  "gold, silver, precious stones",(eternal rewards) OR  "wood, hay, stubble" (unworthy works we did for reasons other than to serve the Lord... such as for ourselves, or so that someone else will give us a pat on the back (to be seen by others). 

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I agree that the rewards are after this life, but since every christian is an heir of God

Galatians 4:7  Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

and shall be FREELY given all thing

Romans 8:32  ... shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

All thing just means all things, we inherit it all, and judge the world and the angels, keep the gold of heaven, so the after the earth reward has got to be between the end of this life and the end of all time for us, because nothing can crown being an heir of God and all things, only one verse you gave might support your idea that the rewards are eternal, and that is the second one about the incorruptible crowns, but don't we cast them back at his feet because we aren't really worthy, at least in our estimations.

Revelation 4:10-11  The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created.

so that will make us all equal gifted.

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There are no 'positions' in eternity. We will live just like the Lord intended in Adams early days - on an earth that will be perfect and free from sin.

We will not be 'shining' brighter nor lesser than anyone because we are all equal in the Lord's eyes.

 

It says in Matthew 20 - 

28  And Jesus said unto them,Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

29  And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life.

30  But many that are first shall be last; and the last shall be first.

 

We are all equal.

_______________________

Many folk have improperly 'translated' 1 Corinthians 15 in such a way as to make it look like we will all shine in differing degrees.

That's ridiculous. 

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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