Pastoral Qualifications and Rebellious Posterity.

[Jordan Kurecki]

I'm still not sure what to think, though sometime soon I need to decide where I stand on this issue.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Jordan Kurecki

[wretched]

Brother Wretched,

First, could you provide at least a single passage of Scripture that indicates that adulthood is at the age of thirteen?

Second, I shall provide a list a Scripture passages that teaches something different, as follows:

Exodus 30:11-14 – “And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when thou numberest them.  This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel is twenty gerahs:) an half shekel shall be the offering of the LORD.  Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD.”

 

 

Exodus 38:25-26 – “And the silver of them that were numbered of the congregation was an hundred talents, and a thousand seven hundred and threescore and fifteen shekels, after the shekel of the sanctuary: a bekah for every man, that is, half a shekel, after the shekel of the sanctuary, for every one that went to be numbered, from twenty years old and upward, for six hundred thousand and three thousand and five hundred and fifty men.”

 

 

Leviticus 27:2-7 – “Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for the LORD by thy estimation.  And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.  And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels.  And if it be from five years old even unto twenty years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male twenty shekels, and for the female ten shekels.  And if it be from a month old even unto five years old, then thy estimation shall be of the male five shekels of silver, and for the female thy estimation shall be three shekels of silver.  And if it be from sixty years old and above; if it be a male, then thy estimation shall be fifteen shekels, and for the female ten shekels.”  (Notice the break-down of age groupse – (1) from one month to five years, (2) from five years to twenty years, (3) from twenty years to sixty years, and (4) from sixty and above.)

 

 

Numbers 1:2-3 – “Take ye the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, after their families, by the house of their fathers, with the number of their names, every male by their polls; from twenty years old and upward, all that are able to go forth to war in Israel: thou and Aaron shall number them by their armies.” (See also Numbers 1:18, 20, 22, 24, 26, 28, 30, 32, 34, 36, 38, 40, 42, 45)

 

 

Numbers 26:1-4 – “And it came to pass after the plague, that the LORD spake unto Moses and unto Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, saying, Take the sum of all the congregation of the children of Israel, from twenty years old and upward, throughout their fathers’ house, all that are able to go to war in Israel.  And Moses and Eleazar the priest spake with them in the plains of Moab by Jordan near Jericho, saying, Take the sum of the people, from twenty years old and upward; as the LORD commanded Moses and the children of Israel, which went forth out of the land of Egypt.”

 

 

Numbers 32:11 – “And the LORD’S anger was kindled the same time, and he sware, saying, Surely none of the men that came up out of Egypt, from twenty years old and upward, shall see the land which I sware unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob; because they have not wholly followed me: save Caleb the son of Jephunneh the Kenezite, and Joshua the son of Nun: for they have wholly followed the LORD.”

 

 

1 Chronicles 23:24 – “These were the sons of Levi after the house of their fathers; even the chief of the fathers, as they were counted by number of names by their polls, that did the work for the service of the house of the LORD, from the age of twenty years and upward.” (See also 1 Chronicles 23:27)

 

 

1 Chronicles 27:23 – “But David took not the number of them from twenty years old and under: because the LORD had said he would increase Israel like to the stars of the heavens.”

 

 

2 Chronicles 25:5 – “Moreover Amaziah gathered Judah together, and made them captains over thousands, and captains over hundreds, according to the houses of their fathers, throughout all Judah and Benjamin: and he numbered them from twenty years old and above, and found them three hundred thousand choice men, able to go forth to war, that could handle spear and shield.”

 

 

2 Chronicles 31:16-18 – “Beside their genealogy of males, from three years old and upward, even unto every one that entereth into the house of the LORD, his daily portion for their service in their charges according to their courses; both to the genealogy of the priests by the house of their fathers, and the Levites from twenty years old and upward, in their charges by their courses; and to the genealogy of all their little ones, their wives, and their sons, and their daughters, through all the congregation: for in their set office they sanctified themselves in holiness:”

 

 

Ezra 3:8 – “Now in the second year of their coming unto the house of God at Jerusalem, in the second month, began Zerubbabel the son of Shealtiel, and Jeshua the son of Jozadak, and the remnant of their brethren the priests and the Levites, and all they that were come out of the captivity unto Jerusalem; and appointed the Levites, from twenty years old and upward, to set forward the work of the house of the LORD.”

 

 

I think the age of mental self awareness and accountability in Spiritual matters is 12-13. Anyone with kids over that age would agree.

The 1st mention of self awareness of being God came for the Lord at 12 and this is the jewish age of accountability

But for the sake of argument, go with 20 then, hardly a difference for OP subject.

 

Edited August 29, 2015 by wretched

[John81]

Are children of "good" pastors/dads assured of salvation and walking with Christ because of their dad?

Do children have free will to reject a good pastor/dads teaching and instruction, whether while still at home or especially once they leave home?

I know some believe the passages which refer to "you and your household" being saved to mean if the dad gets saved so will his family.

Like Joshua, I can say me and my house will follow the Lord, but once the children leave the house they are no longer of my house.

Do pastors kids have free will or if a pastor/dad raises them in a certain manner does God basically elect them to salvation?

How many men, regardless of how good or bad our dads were, fully follow our dads teaching and instruction once out on our own?

Some do teach that if parents meet certain requirements set forth by God in the raising of their children that guarantees their children will be saved and follow the Lord. That doesn't seem to fit in with the belief in free will.