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Question About Preterism


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That's not what I'm saying-I am well aware of the historical fact of the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus. What I don't agree with, however, is this this is fulfillment of either the coming of Christ in the air to resurrect the dead in Christ, and then those who are alive and remain. Nor do I believe this is fulfilment of Zechariah 14 or Revelation 19.

Well I agree.  I don't think any believes that .  I think you have misunderstood Covenanter.  He seems to separate the coming in nthe clouds from the coming when we will meet him in the air.  Don't misquote scripture.  I disagree with Cov on this.

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Well I agree.  I don't think any believes that .  I think you have misunderstood Covenanter.  He seems to separate the coming in nthe clouds from the coming when we will meet him in the air.  Don't misquote scripture.  I disagree with Cov on this.

"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." 1The 4:13-18

I dunno, these seem to be pretty much the same thing. Or is it Rev 14:14-16 you're talking about?

"And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle.And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped." 

This looks more like, I don't know, the removal of the church to me, not destruction. Destruction takes place with the angel after this. Here Jesus reaps from the earth His wheat, which is what believers are likened to in Matthew. The angel then reaps the vine of the earth, grapes, which then go into the winepress of the wrath of God, which is the beginning of the final falling of God's wrath on the unsaved in yet the future.

Both the events in 1Thes and Rev 19 comprise of the same elements: Jesus in the cloud, gathering to Himself that which is His; an angel's loud voice, even the last trump, the seventh trumpet had sounded shortly before this occursd. They are the same event.

 

By the way, ome DO agree with it-in looking at a site specifically about preterism, a preterists page, they claimed that everything in scripture has already been accomplished, even the coming of the new heaven and new earth, the rapture and resurrection, everything, there is nothing to go anymore. Which is weird, if this is as good as it gets. I guess that's full preterism.

 

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No what I am saying is that scripture says \Christ is descending and we will meet Him in the air.  It does not say he is coming to the air, that is a Brethren invention and not what scripture says.

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So He is coming to outpour His wrath, as in Rev 19, or something else? What is Rev 14:14-17?

 

John 17: 9  I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine. 10  And all mine are thine, and thine are mine; and I am glorified in them.
    11 ¶  And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12  While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled. 13  And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. 14  I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. 15  I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. 16  They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

 

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May I be so bold as to interrupt this train of thought and go back to an earlier post of Alan's?  (BTW, Alan, excellent scriptural references! Truly "meat" for study!)

I don't see any specific answers to all the scripture Alan listed in his post?
(the verses referenced such as in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Micah, Zechariah, and more) which clearly show prophecies/promises specifically to the nation of Israel that have NOT YET been fulfilled

I would like to know how they (preterist) think these things could have already been fulfilled either in 70AD or in the present age of grace??? I have not yet seen an answer to those questions??? Do they (preterists) just "throw out" those scriptures to make the case for preterism "fit" with their views?  

It may seem I am being contentious, and I admit I am a bit contentious on this, but only because I truly want to know what  those verses mean to a preterist? Does anyone who holds to the preterist view have any answers?

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A good question, Ronda. I can only speak for myself, as everyone "knows" what Preterists believe and can choose what to argue against. 

I prefer to think in terms of Covenant Theology - see my sermon in the everlasting covenants thread. Those prophesies and promises will all be gloriously fulfilled in the NH&NE. 

Jesus' saving work, shedding his blood of the New Covenant, secured all the covenant promises to Israel. He confirmed the covenant with Israel during his earthly ministry and by the Apostolic Gospel. See Peter's sermon in Acts 3. Many thousands of Jews believed and became true children of Abraham and of God, by faith in Christ. 

Down the ages countless folk of Abraham's descent have trusted Christ, but have been disowned by their communities. 

In glory, in the NH&NE, Abraham's seed including all nations on earth, will enjoy the covenant promises for all eternity. 

 

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I prefer to think in terms of Covenant Theology . . . .  Those prophesies and promises will all be gloriously fulfilled in the NH&NE. 

Brother Day,

Earlier in this thread, Brother Mike (the originator of this thread), made specific reference to the prophetic utterances of Zechariah 14.  So then, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 shall all be fulfilled in the "time period" of the New Heaven & New Earth?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 have already been fulfilled in some past event; and if so, what event or time period would that have been?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterance in Zechariah 14 shall yet be fulfilled in some future event or time period that is not the "time period" of the New Heaven & New Earth and that will occur sometime before the creation of the New Heaven & New Earth?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 have somehow become nullified completely, such that they shall not be fulfilled at all?

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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Brother Day,

Earlier in this thread, Brother Mike (the originator of this thread), made specific reference to the prophetic utterances of Zechariah 14.  So then, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 shall all be fulfilled in the "time period" of the New Heaven & New Earth?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 have already been fulfilled in some past event; and if so, what event or time period would that have been?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterance in Zechariah 14 shall yet be fulfilled in some future event or time period that is not the "time period" of the New Heaven & New Earth and that will occur sometime before the creation of the New Heaven & New Earth?  Or, do you believe that those prophetic utterances in Zechariah 14 have somehow become nullified completely, such that they shall not be fulfilled at all?

You are an expert at asking questions, seemingly all intended to question one's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the one in & through & by whom all God's declared purposes are centred. 

Instead, your focus is on national Israel, whether or nor they are obedient to the law & covenants, & the literal fulfilment in some future dispensation. 

Your question about Zec. 14 is clearly intended to embarrass me, as you do not believe it has been fulfilled, & will be fulfilled in the tribulation you teach that will occur after the supposed rapture.

Asking about the last chapter of 14 is unreasonable. The prophecy of Zechariah (with Haggai) concerns the rebuilding of the temple & Jerusalem, as prophesied  by Daniel & recorded in Ezra. Many of the specific prophecies directly relate to Jesus & particularly to the final week of his ministry. And some of these are cryptic, & without the inspired references & precedents we would hesitate to interpret them. 

Guided by NT interpretation, prophecies relating to the high priest, Joshua,clearly relate to his namesake, Jesus. Less obviously, prophecies relating to the governor, Zerubbabel, who was next in the kingly line from David, relate to King Jesus. Prophecies concerning Jerusalem as towns without walls relate to the heavenly Jerusalem inhabited by the believing people of God. 

Regarding the rebuilding prophecies, we see Zerubbabel building the temple in the power of the "my spirit" by grace, grace. That is a prophecy of the spread of the church, the living temple, by the grace Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. 

We see the baptismal fountain opened, the people looking at the one they pierced and a third of the people coming through the AD 70 destruction, calling on Jesus' name & owning him as "my God." 

When we come to Zec. 14,we see Jerusalem besieged by all nations. While earthly Jerusalem was besieged & destroyed , the Jerusalem of prophecy is a spiritual, heavenly city & its earthly citizens are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. That city has been expanding since Pentecost as "towns without walls" but always suffering persecution. The vile persecutions depicted in the opening verses are similar to the reports of the activities is ISIS against the church in the Middle East. We see God, there, with his suffering people, supporting them by his indwelling Holy Spirit, and strengthening them to be faithful unto death, & vindicating them. We could also understand the account as the persecution suffered in Europe at the hands of the RC Inquisition. Persecution goes on. 

Happily also, some nations did recognise the Gospel & official recognised the Christian faith, allowing its citizens to worship freely. 

When the present millennium draws to a close we may expect all hell to break loose when Satan is freed for his little season. Could it be beginning now?

Jesus' injunction stands until he returns in glory for resurrection & judgement, & to bring about the NH&NE:

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

 

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May I be so bold as to interrupt this train of thought and go back to an earlier post of Alan's?  (BTW, Alan, excellent scriptural references! Truly "meat" for study!)

I don't see any specific answers to all the scripture Alan listed in his post?
(the verses referenced such as in Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea, Micah, Zechariah, and more) which clearly show prophecies/promises specifically to the nation of Israel that have NOT YET been fulfilled

I would like to know how they (preterist) think these things could have already been fulfilled either in 70AD or in the present age of grace??? I have not yet seen an answer to those questions??? Do they (preterists) just "throw out" those scriptures to make the case for preterism "fit" with their views?  

It may seem I am being contentious, and I admit I am a bit contentious on this, but only because I truly want to know what  those verses mean to a preterist? Does anyone who holds to the preterist view have any answers?

Ronda,

I am very happy that I was able to help you with your understanding of the scriptures. :thumb:

Do not be too surprised if a person who holds to the Preterist method of theology never answers my questions on prophecy in my August 29th post. Most Preterists will give evasive answers (see how Covenanter answers Pastor Markles question concerning Zechariah 14) to honest questions. To a Preterist all of the prophecies given by God by either a Covenant, or a promise, to the sons of Jacob is fulfilled either spiritually to the church, in 70 AD, or is symbolic in some fashion. I asked about Zechariah 14 in my Revelation chapter 19-22 Study awhile ago and then again in my August 29th post and haven't gotten a scriptural answer yet from a Preterist (or any answer as they evade the question or ignore it). By the way, neither will Pastor Markle.

As I am still waiting I guess I better catch up on some sleep. :thofftobed7lpsl4:

Alan

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You are an expert at asking questions, seemingly all intended to question one's faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as the one in & through & by whom all God's declared purposes are centred. 

Instead, your focus is on national Israel, whether or nor they are obedient to the law & covenants, & the literal fulfilment in some future dispensation. 

Your question about Zec. 14 is clearly intended to embarrass me, as you do not believe it has been fulfilled, & will be fulfilled in the tribulation you teach that will occur after the supposed rapture.

Asking about the last chapter of 14 is unreasonable. The prophecy of Zechariah (with Haggai) concerns the rebuilding of the temple & Jerusalem, as prophesied  by Daniel & recorded in Ezra. Many of the specific prophecies directly relate to Jesus & particularly to the final week of his ministry. And some of these are cryptic, & without the inspired references & precedents we would hesitate to interpret them. 

Guided by NT interpretation, prophecies relating to the high priest, Joshua,clearly relate to his namesake, Jesus. Less obviously, prophecies relating to the governor, Zerubbabel, who was next in the kingly line from David, relate to King Jesus. Prophecies concerning Jerusalem as towns without walls relate to the heavenly Jerusalem inhabited by the believing people of God. 

Regarding the rebuilding prophecies, we see Zerubbabel building the temple in the power of the "my spirit" by grace, grace. That is a prophecy of the spread of the church, the living temple, by the grace Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. 

We see the baptismal fountain opened, the people looking at the one they pierced and a third of the people coming through the AD 70 destruction, calling on Jesus' name & owning him as "my God." 

When we come to Zec. 14,we see Jerusalem besieged by all nations. While earthly Jerusalem was besieged & destroyed , the Jerusalem of prophecy is a spiritual, heavenly city & its earthly citizens are believers in the Lord Jesus Christ. That city has been expanding since Pentecost as "towns without walls" but always suffering persecution. The vile persecutions depicted in the opening verses are similar to the reports of the activities is ISIS against the church in the Middle East. We see God, there, with his suffering people, supporting them by his indwelling Holy Spirit, and strengthening them to be faithful unto death, & vindicating them. We could also understand the account as the persecution suffered in Europe at the hands of the RC Inquisition. Persecution goes on. 

Happily also, some nations did recognise the Gospel & official recognised the Christian faith, allowing its citizens to worship freely. 

When the present millennium draws to a close we may expect all hell to break loose when Satan is freed for his little season. Could it be beginning now?

Jesus' injunction stands until he returns in glory for resurrection & judgement, & to bring about the NH&NE:

Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

 

That's all well and good, except it doesn't really answer the question. Zech 14 is written so plainly, we can't just set it aside as allegory and catyclismic poetry-there are some very clear and literal things written which we can't just lay aside as  somehow having been spiritually accomplished. There is a very literal battle laid out here, between God physically present, and the armies of the world. In 70AD, the army was, as far as I know, just Rome, not the world, one army, not "armies". No splitting of the Mount of Olives. We certainly don't see anyone going from year to year to celebrate the feast of Tabernacles, nor did we see God rescuing Jerusalem, rather, we saw the destruction of it. The churches are NOT Israel, not spiritually or literally-we are the church(es), Christianity has not supplanted Israel.

Zechariah 14 indicates an ending of persecution against Israel and Jerusalem, and a beginning of great peace and prosperity for those who follw the Lord, and again, we have seen exactly the opposite of that over the last 2,000 years. Things have not gotten better, but have grown progressively worse. Both believers AND israel are persecuted by others, more and more-this is hardly the new earth, or even the reign of Jesus Christ with Satan bound and unable to deceive the nations. I have said it before, and I will say it again, if this is the promised reign of Messiah, it is far more a disappointment than the Bible made it out to be.

Edited by Ukulelemike
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I'm so thankful the Lord led me to this site.  God clearly wants us to study and not just read.  Comparing scripture with scripture is key to understanding many verses and topics , and understanding to whom the particular verse was written to, what event/time frame the verse was referencing, and regarding which dispensation also helps us to learn and grow.  At first, I was "put off" by the views of non-IFB members.  Now, after having been here a few months, I'm glad they are here to give their views on various verses/topics... it actually strengthens my understanding of many particular verses/topics when they often have answers that make no sense!

UkuleleMike: I agree with your last post! The mount of Olives did not split in ad70, etc.  satan is working right now and not bound up yet (as 1st Peter 5:8 tells us) "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

Alan, you gave many specific books/chapters/verses of the bible to show that none of the following prophesies and promises were fulfilled at Calvary. in 70 a.d.,  nor in the New Testament Church Age.  It's also very easy to understand that the scriptures you listed are speaking directly about Israel and the Jews.

Zechariah 8:13  "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong."
I wonder how a person could apply this verse and the entire chapter to anyone other than Israel???

And if there could be ANY DOUBT: Zechariah 8:23 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
Who? The Jew! When? Not at calvary, Not in 70AD, and obviously not in the present church age. 

When I did get a reply for this from "covenanter" (and I truly do thank you for the reply "covenanter"), part of the reply was this: "In glory, in the NH&NE, Abraham's seed including all nations on earth, will enjoy the covenant promises for all eternity. "
Which I must say certainly does not fit with the scripture Alan referenced nor does it fit with Zech. 8:23.  I cannot see how he (and others of this view) can not see that "a Jew" means "a Jew" in this verse as well as the others referenced by Alan.

And I do heartily thank those who answer their viewpoints, because it only serves to stregthen the understanding I already had. I'm not posting this to deride any person on here... I am thankful for every participant who enters their view on scripture (whether or not it matches my own). I enjoy studying the word of God, and forums like this truly help in my studies.

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Concerning Zechariah 14 Covenanter wrote, "Asking about the last chapter of 14 is unreasonable. The prophecy of Zechariah (with Haggai) concerns the rebuilding of the temple & Jerusalem, as prophesied  by Daniel & recorded in Ezra. Many of the specific prophecies directly relate to Jesus & particularly to the final week of his ministry. And some of these are cryptic, & without the inspired references & precedents we would hesitate to interpret them."

Brethren,

To our Preterist friends it is not reasonable nor possible to understand Zechariah 14 and the other propheceis concerning the nation of Israel and the coming of the Lord Jesus in His glory. In fact, Covenanter plainly says that these prophecies are, "cryptic." In other words, the Preterist is in the dark spiritully. This is exactly what I said in my Revelation study on Revelation 22:16 and 17. To the Preterist the book of Revelation is a, "sealed book." http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=12 

To know the proper interpretation of Zechariah is reasonable, of the Lord, and is easy for the person who simply believes the Bible, and has the spiritual discernment to rightly divide the scriptures to understand. The problem is a spiriutal problem not a mental problem. The prophecies of Zechariah chapter 14 and chapter 8, and the other prophecies of Haggai, et tal, will be literally fulfulled as written in the book of Revelation.

The Holy Spirit will reveal the truth of the prophecies of Zechariah chapter 14 and 8 and the other related prophetic passages of the prophets when the Preterists comes to Him for answers instead of the false teachers of this world.

The Lord Jesus said, "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come." John 16:13 The reason why all of the prophecies given to the Jews are "cryptic" to the Preterist is a spiritual problem.

Alan 

 

 

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I'm so thankful the Lord led me to this site.  God clearly wants us to study and not just read.  Comparing scripture with scripture is key to understanding many verses and topics , and understanding to whom the particular verse was written to, what event/time frame the verse was referencing, and regarding which dispensation also helps us to learn and grow.  At first, I was "put off" by the views of non-IFB members.  Now, after having been here a few months, I'm glad they are here to give their views on various verses/topics... it actually strengthens my understanding of many particular verses/topics when they often have answers that make no sense!

UkuleleMike: I agree with your last post! The mount of Olives did not split in ad70, etc.  satan is working right now and not bound up yet (as 1st Peter 5:8 tells us) "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:"

Alan, you gave many specific books/chapters/verses of the bible to show that none of the following prophesies and promises were fulfilled at Calvary. in 70 a.d.,  nor in the New Testament Church Age.  It's also very easy to understand that the scriptures you listed are speaking directly about Israel and the Jews.

Zechariah 8:13  "And it shall come to pass, that as ye were a curse among the heathen, O house of Judah, and house of Israel; so will I save you, and ye shall be a blessing: fear not, but let your hands be strong."
I wonder how a person could apply this verse and the entire chapter to anyone other than Israel???

And if there could be ANY DOUBT: Zechariah 8:23 "Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you."
Who? The Jew! When? Not at calvary, Not in 70AD, and obviously not in the present church age. 

When I did get a reply for this from "covenanter" (and I truly do thank you for the reply "covenanter"), part of the reply was this: "In glory, in the NH&NE, Abraham's seed including all nations on earth, will enjoy the covenant promises for all eternity. "
Which I must say certainly does not fit with the scripture Alan referenced nor does it fit with Zech. 8:23.  I cannot see how he (and others of this view) can not see that "a Jew" means "a Jew" in this verse as well as the others referenced by Alan.

And I do heartily thank those who answer their viewpoints, because it only serves to stregthen the understanding I already had. I'm not posting this to deride any person on here... I am thankful for every participant who enters their view on scripture (whether or not it matches my own). I enjoy studying the word of God, and forums like this truly help in my studies.

From the "Comments" thread:

Ian:  Generally OT prophecy is best understood by its fulfilment, particularly in the life & ministry of Jesus, his saving work, & the Gospel resulting from the saving work, therefore read the NT to understand the OT;

 

As I [Ian] understand Bro Scott,

He sees OT promises & prophecies specifically relating to the earthly nation of Israel, & as they were not fulfilled before Messiah came, & the nation rejected Messiah & the Apostolic Gospel, & are not being fulfilled now in the present nation of Israel, there must be a future dispensation when all the OT prophecies happen literally. 

That requires a gap in the 70 weeks, re-establishment of Israel as a Jewish nation, rebuilding the temple, & then destroying it all again in the 70th week, after which the surviving Israelites will believe in Jesus Christ who will reign over them as a mortal people, on earth, in person, for 1,000 years. 

The present Gospel age is thus in effect a gap in prophetic revelation between weeks 69 & 70 during which God is not dealing with Israel as a nation, but mainly the Gentiles, & any Jews who do repent & believe in Jesus Christ.

[deleted]

Brother Day,

Although I myself would add more details, and although I would not claim that all of these things are taught specifically in and by Daniel 9:24-27, and although a few of the specifics are not exactly correct to my position, the above was indeed a fair "brief summary" of my position -- all except the parenthetical note at the end of the summary. 

===============

My summary of the prophecy of Zechariah, not just the last chapter, is on the principle emboldened above. Brother Scott agrees that my understanding of his position is a fair "brief summary." 

As a scientist & technical consultant, I have always sought to say what I am saying before I say it in detail. You will see that in my sermon in the "Everlasting Covenant" thread. 

========

The objections to my reply to you concern my contention:

that much of OT prophecy was fulfilled by the Lord Jesus in his life & saving ministry, & is being fulfilled in this Gospel age; Luke 24:25-27, 44-48, 

that the prophecies concerning Israel were & are fulfilled by the people of Israel who came to repentance & faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Messiah; Acts 3:13-26

those prophecies counted in all nations on earth  (all families) according to the promise to Abraham, Isaac & Israel; Gen. 12:1-3, 22:18, Acts 3:25 

that the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ put themselves out of the covenant relationship, in effect becoming spiritual Gentiles; Acts 3:22-23

that people of all tribes (of Israel) & all nations are welcome by the Gospel, and that only those who respond receive eternal life & have a glorious, blessed eternal future. Mat. 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-16, Rev. 5:9-10,

that all believers, regardless of ethnicity, are in a full new covenant relationship with God, & are considered to be "Israel" & "Jews" & "the circumcised" in the sight of God; Rom. 2:28-29, Deu. 30:6, Phil. 3:3

that the wrath of God against those of Israel who rejected their Messiah was completed in AD 70, & that since then they have been on the same basis as other nations - individual sinners for whom Christ died, who are saved by repentance & faith; 1 Thes. 2:14-16, Mat. 23:33-36, 24:34

as repentant sinners from Israel & the nations are one people of God in Christ, one body, they are not under the old covenant laws & rituals, & so are not recognisable as Jews, but as Christians, aka the church; Acts 2:27, 11:26

 I do NOT believe that we are living in a 2,000+ year gap in the purposes of God. I believe that in the present Gospel age God is saving sinners & welcoming them into his eternal kingdom. The next great event of prophecy will be the return of the Lord Jesus Christ in glory to raise & judge the dead, and welcome believers into glory, & condemn sinners to hell. 

I do not know if there will yet be a great revival of Abraham's natural descendants. I'm not convinced Romans 11 teaches that - what it does teach is that if they want to be graffed back, they must abide not still in unbelief. We should still pray for the peace of Jerusalem - peace with God by faith in Jesus.

I believe therefore that OT prophecy can & should be studied for its application to us in this present Gospel age as we preach Christ to sinners, & encourage believers in their lives & service.

 

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Covenanter: I was going to write a long post about the reasons why I disagree with your viewpoint... but since I have read MANY of the past studies, I see it has already been done, quite often, and by several people.

Just one of the many opposing viewpoints is in Zechariah 8:23 "a Jew" means "a Jew", it hasn't happened YET and it WILL happen in the future. To subscribe to the viewpoint you attempt to make- I would have to believe at least 1 or 2 erroneous theories: 1. that in Zech 8:23 it already happened- (it has NOT yet happened), or 2: that the words "a Jew" would mean any saved person (since you believe the saved replace Israel and you believe the saved will receive the promises God made specifically the Israel).  Sorry... that's not what the scripture says. 

We could debate ad nauseum about each verse and each point...  But let me just reiterate what I already said, in essence:  Reading the viewpoints from a preterist, only serves to STRENGTHEN my own viewpoint! As in some of the verses I mentioned above, to have a preterist view would mean I would have to make null and void the actual word of God and I won't do that!  It makes no sense at all (to me). Even to attempt that line of reasoning I would have to twist or omit God's word and I won't do that! I believe God's word over man's word. 

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