Free Will

[Leonard Sylvia]

 Do you believe in the true free will? Charles Finney once said that we did not inherit Adams original sin? Do you believe this? Do you believe man has a choice to actually sin or to obey God and making himself righteous?

[Invicta]

Do children have to be taught to do wrong? Of course not.

[Jordan Kurecki]

http://www.cbctinleypark.org/assets/calvinism.pdf

 

Allow me to highlight some things:

BIBLICISM

Depraved Yet Conscientious

R esponding Atonement

E lection Mutual

S ufficient Grace

S anctification Positional and Progressive

"Grace to save and keep the believer is often resisted, but it is sufficient to save and to keep the saved believer."

"DEPRAVED YET CONSCIENTIOUS Sinners are spiritually dead in sins yet morally conscious of God’s righteousness. "

"RESISTIBLE GRACE We have already established that the grace of salvation that appears to all men is indeed resistible. But it is not sufficient in the line of thinking of the Arminian to leave it at that. For to be consistent they would believe that God’s grace were totally resistable by the free will of man at any time and in any situation, which is sometimes true and sometimes false. If that were entirely true than how could God say to the apostle Paul in II Corinthians 12:9, My grace is sufficient for thee? Or in II Corinthians 9:8, And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye always having all sufficiency in all things may abound to every good work. Philippians 2:13 says It is God that worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. Jude 24 says, Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen. What Arminians fail to believe is that God is able to take dominion over what He has purchased and apply sustaining grace and preservation, even when the saved don’t feel like it or will it. If a saved man never in this life commits adultery, murder or blasphemy, is it not because of the grace of God? Are there not times when we would give in to the flesh, but God provides a way to escape and directs our feet away from the path of sin? So, on one hand, it is possible according to Hebrews 12:15, to fail of the grace of God. That is, fail to, by faith, appropriate the grace of God. And then on the other hand there are times when God by taking dominion and by His sustaining grace upholds us even when we would not appropriate His grace. Peter failed of the grace of God not to deny the Lord as Christ foretold, yet in his despair God’s sustaining grace prevented him "

"CONDITIONAL ELECTION When Arminians speak of Conditional Election they emphasize the free will of man. God has given to man a free will to choose salvation, but here, with this first point of Arminianism, we must recognize an unscriptural extreme and avoid it. To the Arminian, the free will of man means that man can choose salvation at any time, and over and over, and can choose to reject it any time, and over and over. Is that scriptural? Absolutely not! The Bible is clear that there is a time to get saved. There is a window of oppor- tunity to choose salvation and to reject it. The window may close and the opportunities no longer come. Hebrews 3:15 says, Today if ye hear his voice, harden not your hearts... This implies that God expects immediate repentance, without delay, when the Gospel is made known and His Spirit is convicting and drawing. II Corinthians 6:2, says, Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation. In the Old Testament Isaiah 55:6 says, Seek ye the Lord while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near. This implies that there may come a time when, if one ignores or rejects the opportunity to be saved, it may pass them by. Then, when they would like to seek the Lord, they will not find Him or call upon Him and He will not hear. The writer of Proverbs supports this in Proverbs 1:24,26,28, Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand and no man regarded; I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear cometh. Then shall they call upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me. Similarly, God said to Noah in Genesis 6:3, …My spirit shall not always strive with man… The fact of scripture is that according to Romans 2:4 …the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance. According to John 1:9, Christ is the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. According to John 12:32 since Jesus was lifted up he will draw all men unto Himself. According to Romans 8:30, God calls them that are justified. We dare not ignore that in order to be saved we must choose to repent and believe the gospel when God the Father is calling, God the Son is drawing and God "

 

"TOTAL DEPRAVITY Anyone who would deny the doctrine of hamartiology, the sinfulness of man, would indeed be a heretic because the scripture is clear on the sinfulness of man. Romans 5:12 says, by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned. Psalm 51:5 says, Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. Romans 3:23 says, For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God. Ephesians 2:1 says, And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins. We have inherited a sin nature passed down to us through our fathers going back to Adam. That sin nature is active in every one of us moving us to think sinfully and act sinfully. We are indeed dead spiritually and need to be made alive spiritually by the miracle of the new birth. Biblicists point out, however, that Calvinists view total depravity as total inability to an extent of minimizing or even ignoring the conscience. They believe that man is so depraved that he possesses and practices every evil throughout his life and has no knowledge or comprehension of righteousness or right living. Now we know that any righteous deed done outside of the power of God through salvation is filthy rags (Isaiah 64:6), because no righteous act can bring us to God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight Romans 3:20. However, God has created every man with a conscience. Romans 1:19,20 says, Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shown it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. Many men reveal the truth that they were made in the likeness and image of God by living their entire lives according to certain conscientious convictions. There are people who their entire lives detest certain sins and never come close to desiring them or practicing them and yet they are lost in their sins. Romans 3:10 says, As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one."

"

 

 

 Do you believe in the true free will? Charles Finney once said that we did not inherit Adams original sin? Do you believe this? Do you believe man has a choice to actually sin or to obey God and making himself righteous?

I think Free Will is kind of like a goldfish in a bowl, God sets the limits and boundaries of our bowl, and we have freedom to make choices within the bowl we have been placed.

While I believe mankind is wicked and corrupt, I also believe that God's grace is sufficient to help us. 

[Ukulelemike]

I believe in free will, but as tempered by God's foreknowledge and direction of human history according to it.  Its a weird way of looking at things, or at least trying to explain it.

God knows ALL from the beginning-each and every decision every man, lost or saved, will make in all history, and so He has designed it all to bring things about to an appointed end, in a specific way, at a specific time of His choosing. We are not puppets on strings, but neither do we have COMPLETE free will, insofar as we can do anything we want. Notice at the tower of Babel, the Lord declared that since all the people were one, and their language was one, that nothing would be restrained from them, which they imagined to do. So, God put a stop to it, by confusing the languages, and separating the people into peoples. So, freewill, BUT tempered by God's will.

[trapperhoney]

I do believe that Adam's sin passed on to all mankind.  God created every creature to create after its own kind.  A fallen human can only produce fallen offspring.

Rom_5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

However, what sends us to hell is not the sin nature, it is the rejection of Christ and salvation.  Everyone is presented with that choice (the free will) and each of us have to make the decision to trust on Him or to go our own way.

Rom_1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

 

[heartstrings]

The Bible does not mention the words "total depravity" or "freewill".

It does tell us that we are born sinners, (Romans 5:12) hopeless and helpless without Christ. And it gives the command to all of us......BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ. CHOOSE LIFE.

[Ukulelemike]

The Bible does not mention the words "total depravity" or "freewill".

It does tell us that we are born sinners, (Romans 5:12) hopeless and helpless without Christ. And it gives the command to all of us......BELIEVE on the Lord Jesus Christ. CHOOSE LIFE.

Amen. Jesus also said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw ALL men unto me". hence, EVERYONE is drawn. As well He lighteth all men that come into the world. So, ALL are drawn, ALL are lighted-so ALL have an opportunity to follow. We may be depraved, but we ALL have been called unto salvation.

Acts 17:30 "And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:"

1Time 2:3,4 "For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."

Clearly the Lord desires ALL to be saved, and has paid the price for sin for all, draws all, calls all to repent, wills all to be saved. But all don't, so we Do have a will, but ALL have an opportunity, either to accept or to reject."

[heartstrings]

Amen

 

[Leonard Sylvia]

The Bible does not mention the words "total depravity" or "freewill".

Neither does the Scriptures use the words Trinity or King James Bible, but they are intricatal part of some churches right?

I want to talk about about John 12:32 for a second. I think it's important that we read the story in its context.

 

27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour. 28 Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again. 29 The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him. 30 Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes. 31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out. 32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Remember what I said in previous post about the use of the term all meaning all? (see verse 19, did the entire world go after Jesus?)

so, the point of Him saying this was that He would die.

34 The people answered him, We have heard out of the law that Christ abideth for ever: and how sayest thou, The Son of man must be lifted up? who is this Son of man? 35 Then Jesus said unto them, Yet a little while is the light with you. Walk while ye have the light, lest darkness come upon you: for he that walketh in darkness knoweth not whither he goeth. 36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him: 38 that the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed? 39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them. 41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his glory, and spake of him.

did you see that? who hardened their hearts? who blinded their eyes? Who did that? Why didnt they choose to believe? Isnt hardening and drawing opposite of each other?

Remember, The Jews thought that that they were the elected ones but Christ meant that He would draw all men from all countries, tribes and toungues to himself. while at the sametime hardening others....

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Hath blinded - past tense.

 

i will draw - future tense.  

 

Either Christ will draw all men, (including those who were previously blinded) to Himself, or He was a liar.  Of course, I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that He was not a liar.  So, He will draw all men unto Himself.

 

calvinist's are wrong.

[Invicta]

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

[Leonard Sylvia]

 

[Leonard Sylvia]

Let me add this also; if Scripture says that there are none righteous (Rom 3:10) and there are not God seekers(Romans 3:11) and that anybody who is not saved can please God(Romans 8:8)

how can a person in of himself "find God"?

[John81]

Let me add this also; if Scripture says that there are none righteous (Rom 3:10) and there are not God seekers(Romans 3:11) and that anybody who is not saved can please God(Romans 8:8)

how can a person in of himself "find God"?

I believe this is where most here would point out that Christ said He would draw all men to Himself.

[Ukulelemike]

Let me add this also; if Scripture says that there are none righteous (Rom 3:10) and there are not God seekers(Romans 3:11) and that anybody who is not saved can please God(Romans 8:8)

how can a person in of himself "find God"?

Because the Bible ALSO says, "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me." (Jn 2 12:32), and  "That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world." (Jn 1:9).  See, it is not in and of ourselves-rather, Christ has both called and lighted EVERY man in the world. ALL have been called and drawn to Him-but many reject. And those who see and follow that light and drawing, even though there may be no many specifically that does it, if they follow it, they WILL find Christ. Not because of themselves, but because they responded to the drawing and the light. Just as in the act of the new birth: Jesus has called and we, in reponse, ask for the promised salvation and forgiveness of sins. We have to call, to ask, but it is not a work WE do, but a response we make to the work that has been done.

COnsider the opposite. If geace is irresistable, then how is it that Jesus said to Jerusalem, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!." God calls, and many reject. But so also some respond and are saved-not of their own work or efforts, but out of response and obedience to the gospel drawing..

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, 40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

THis needs to be understood that this was done because of their unbelief. God called and called, but they rejected and rejcted, so God disallowed them from hearing. God will only allow direct rejection and disobedience so much before they have committed a sin that merits no prayers.