Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

ThePilgrim

Proof of the shrinking American brain.

Recommended Posts

Just now, Brother Stafford said:

Just for clarification, are you saying that you are pro choice?  I'm just a bit confused.

I am simply indicating the inability to have a consistent plan of anything. You want long term contraception, then some fertilized eggs might get flushed out. Personally, I hold to the medical definition of pregnancy, when the egg implants in the uterine lining and the HCG levels in the woman start rising...but what do I know, I've only been pregnant 9 times, birthed 4 children and managed to take 3 home from the hospital. 

I find the entire abortion question problematic. I oppose making it illegal, as I can see a return to the bad old days of back alley abortions and babies thrown in dumpsters. Making anything illegal is not an answer. You see how well prohibition worked. As I have stated before...I believe comprehensive sex education, easy access to contraception, and attempting to change hearts is the solution. Not heavy-handed legislation. I know this view is also unpopular, but it's ok...I'm good with that. I will not tolerate any name calling, or disparaging remarks on my character. I've had a very long time and quite a few experiences in my life to come to my views. I do not do "knee-jerk" opinions on anything. I outgrew that a long time ago. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

I oppose making it illegal, as I can see a return to the bad old days of back alley abortions and babies thrown in dumpsters. Making anything illegal is not an answer. You see how well prohibition worked.

Once a pregnancy reachers the definition you described, do you then oppose legalized abortion, or do you still believe it should be legal?  If so, when do you believe it should not be allowed?

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am opposed to abortion once the pregnancy has been established. However, I have no problem with birth control as properly used, IUD, the pill, etc. Contrary to what has been said, the IUD thins the uterine lining and stops ovulation (no menses, no ovulation). The same with the pill. No menses, no ovulation. 

However...once again...I find it problematic, especially in cases of catastrophic birth defects, genetic defects. I have never had to deal with that, thank God, but I have friends who have had to. Some chose to terminate the pregnancy and others have not. The closest I got was choosing to terminate life support on my already born child when it became obvious that he would never have a life worth living (bilateral Grade IV brain hemorrhage). He was 11 days old and passed from this world in my arms. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

I am opposed to abortion once the pregnancy has been established. However, I have no problem with birth control as properly used, IUD, the pill, etc. Contrary to what has been said, the IUD thins the uterine lining and stops ovulation (no menses, no ovulation). The same with the pill. No menses, no ovulation. 

However...once again...I find it problematic, especially in cases of catastrophic birth defects, genetic defects. I have never had to deal with that, thank God, but I have friends who have had to. Some chose to terminate the pregnancy and others have not. The closest I got was choosing to terminate life support on my already born child when it became obvious that he would never have a life worth living (bilateral Grade IV brain hemorrhage). He was 11 days old and passed from this world in my arms. 

I am attempting to establish your position.  Do you believe that it should be illegal for anyone to get an abortion once pregnancy has been established or do you believe that women should have the legal right to choose?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

I am simply indicating the inability to have a consistent plan of anything. You want long term contraception, then some fertilized eggs might get flushed out. Personally, I hold to the medical definition of pregnancy, when the egg implants in the uterine lining and the HCG levels in the woman start rising...but what do I know, I've only been pregnant 9 times, birthed 4 children and managed to take 3 home from the hospital. 

A. I find the entire abortion question problematic. I oppose making it illegal, as I can see a return to the bad old days of back alley abortions and babies thrown in dumpsters. Making anything illegal is not an answer. You see how well prohibition worked. As I have stated before...I believe comprehensive sex education, easy access to contraception, and attempting to change hearts is the solution. Not heavy-handed legislation. I know this view is also unpopular, but it's ok...I'm good with that. I will not tolerate any name calling, or disparaging remarks on my character.  B. I've had a very long time and quite a few experiences in my life to come to my views. I do not do "knee-jerk" opinions on anything. I outgrew that a long time ago. 

That's quite concerning coming from someone with a name like "Saved...".

My wife and I have had 5 pregnancies and were able to keep 4...and after the second we home-birthed the rest.

A. Messing up humanity by allowing people to stop the continuing development of a human baby is barbarous, and those that were, or may be in the future, choosing to have back-alley abortions, and bring harm to themselves, deserve the just judgement of their actions, BY THEIR OWN CHOICE.

B. "Experience does not a proper decision make" - Sister? Properly it is "what does God's word say" - that is where we get the answer to decisions about abortion. 

Your view does not reflect a follower's 'understanding' view at all, but of a person without knowledge of the truth, and one who may be afraid of the truth.

There, I didn't use one mean name.

Oh yeah, and this quote from you - "Making anything illegal is not an answer."

Such a thing should never be said or thought by a follower of the God who gave us his Law.

"But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners..."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

So, what is the solution? Women keep having babies they can't or won't raise. Ok..so, contraception. Preferably long term like an IUD. Oh no...that MIGHT kill a fertilized egg...can't have that either. So...what's the solution? In an ideal world of Christian values, women would get married and responsibly have only the children they can reasonably raise...but...it doesn't work that way either...

Education: funding keeps getting cut. With the new idiot in DC, the public education system will end up dismantled. Then what? We will have a bunch of people with no education, no ability to hold down even the most rudimentary job, and then what? Let them just shrivel up and die? 

TANF increases for subsequent children is a strawman...even in Alaska...http://dhss.alaska.gov/dpa/Pages/atap/default.aspx

Alaska Temporary Assistance Program:

  • Imposes a 60-month lifetime limit on assistance
  • Limits additional assistance for second parents, and reduces benefits for two-parent families during July, August, and September when there are better opportunities for employment
  • Requires families to complete a Family Self-Sufficiency Plan, identify self-sufficiency goals and work or participate in activities that will move them toward those goals
  • Requires cooperation with the Child Support Services Division in establishing paternity for the children, locating the absent parent, and collecting any child support the absent parent is responsible for paying
  • Prohibits making purchases with or accessing cash benefits on EBT cards at any ATMs that are located in bars, liquor stores, gambling or adult entertainment establishments.

 

Income Limits and Maximum Payments
1/1/2016 TO 12/31/2016

Household Size

2

3

4

5

6

Each Addt’l

Income Limit

$1,412

$1,590

$1,767

$1,945

$2,122

$178

Maximum Payment

$821

$923

$1,025

$1,127

$1,229

$102

 

 

Now...care to try to tell me some more? Stop buying the anecdotal rubbish. Here's the law for Alaska. Here's the money they get. Does this really sound like the budget busting line item you think it is? 

Also, how did those counties vote in the last election? Red or Blue? 

 

I was polite. I was courteous. I was gentle even. I was very respectful to a lady, as I was raised. Your response, however, was not in kind. Your triumphant internet numbers are meaningless, as many Alaska Natives are members of various Alaska Native Associations, and billions of dollars of federal welfare is funneled through these entities, not simply through the State. You have no idea whereof you speak. I give you 30 years of personal, upfront experience on the front lines, not anecdotal evidence that I gleaned from a quick google search of the internet.

I will tear a man up if aroused, but will not engage in contention with a woman. It is not how things are done among my people.

I bid you "Good Day", Ma'am.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Saved41199 said:

My point exactly. Why I support social safety nets. Strong social safety nets. It is easier to talk to someone about the gospel when their stomach isn't growling, when they aren't dirty and cold. 

But, that makes me a "dirty lib" among some of those here. It's ok though...I have to follow what I believe, untainted by the propaganda of the world. 

"Brother or sister". Now, I understand that every homeless person has a sign that says "God bless you", but I suspect they are not, generally-speaking, my brother or sister.

I lived many years in Reno, NV, a place with a LOT of beggars. I don't say homeless, because, while there are some homeless, these are not who I am speaking of-I mean beggars, people with a car and a house and usually an addiction, be it to drugs, alcohol or gambling, and they beg to cover their addictions, OR, they beg so as not to work otherwise. I know-I worked security in a casino, and we knew these people very well. They come out, spread a blanket, with their dog sitting next to them wearing a little bandana, and a cup. And there they sit, all day, collecting up money. These people make upward of 85-100K per year, tax free, doing nothing. The Bible says, "If a man won't work, neither shall he eat"

So no, I don't give to them. Last time I did, a guy gave me a story of how he was stuck there and needed money for gas, so I thought, 'Ah-ha! I will just offer to buy his gas.!" Smart, right? He says, "Okay", comes back two minutes later in a brand new 3/4 ton diesel pick-up truck, still with a temporary tag on it.   No, I don't give. Better to give to organizations that help people who really need help. We aren't living in Israel 2,000 years ago-even then, they had to pretty much be known to be in need-now it is just fake vets and drug addicts looking to get money for their addictions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As I said, social justice issues can be very contentious and many of them can be disagreed upon.  Things like whether or not healthcare should be free for all or if we should have a border wall, should not be something that splits Christians apart.  However, it is my opinion that the issue of abortion is of the utmost importance.  If someone claiming to be a Christian believes that a woman should have the legal right to end the life of the child living within her belly, for any reason, that is condoning infant murder.  That shows an extremely concerning flaw in the character of that person that must be addressed and corrected.  However, I still do not believe that it, in and of itself, effects a person's salvation.  It just means that the Holy Spirit still has much work to do in the conscience of that person.

 

 

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ordered some new athletic shoes online about two weeks ago, and received them Monday. They're really comfortable. This was a first for me, because I don't like ordering clothing/shoes without being able to try them on. They fit perfectly.

I also ate some Doritos last night before going to bed, and they were quite tasty.

Every once-in-a-while, I like to live on the wild side and drink my coffee black too.

Now, let's all take a deep breath. I sense just a wee bit of anger and angst here. :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

However, it is my opinion that the issue of abortion is of the utmost importance.  If someone claiming to be a Christian believes that a woman should have the legal right to end the life of the child living within her belly, for any reason, that is condoning infant murder.  That shows an extremely concerning flaw in the character of that person that must be addressed and corrected.

You are failing to see a very nuanced position. You are also failing to see that abortion was a total non-issue to the Christian community (except for the Catholics) until after 1980, a full 7 years after the Roe v. Wade decision. You are also failing to see that since the SCOTUS decision in 1973, there have been Republican administrations in power for 23 of the last 44 years...and well...it has yet to be overturned. I think that before anyone else attempts to answer this, especially given the title of this thread, they may want to do some research on the rise of the "Religious Right" and the "Moral Majority". 

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2003/januaryweb-only/1-20-31.0.html?start=1

http://billmoyers.com/2014/07/17/when-southern-baptists-were-pro-choice/

https://www.onfaith.co/onfaith/2013/01/22/roe-v-wade-anniversary-how-abortion-became-an-evangelical-issue/11238

Time to do a wee bit of homework here. These are but a few of the articles that have formed my opinions on the subject. Therefore...the idea of a "shrinking brain" in my case is not truth. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

You are failing to see a very nuanced position. You are also failing to see that abortion was a total non-issue to the Christian community (except for the Catholics) until after 1980, a full 7 years after the Roe v. Wade decision. You are also failing to see that since the SCOTUS decision in 1973, there have been Republican administrations in power for 23 of the last 44 years...and well...it has yet to be overturned. I think that before anyone else attempts to answer this, especially given the title of this thread, they may want to do some research on the rise of the "Religious Right" and the "Moral Majority". 

Saved, I don't understand why you cannot answer a very straight forward question.  I asked you if you believe that it should be illegal for any woman to get an abortion once they realize they are pregnant or if a woman should have the legal right to choose to abort her child.  Since you refuse to answer this, it leads me to infer that you do not wish to give a straight forward answer.

At this very moment, I am not concerned about what the SCOTUS or Republican or Democrat administrations have or have not done.  I am interested to know whether of not you believe that a woman should have the legal right to kill her unborn child.  I do not wish to put words in your mouth, so please answer that question.

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

 I am interested to know whether of not you believe that a woman should have the legal right to kill her unborn child.

Did you read the articles I linked to? What did you think of them? Do you see where the whole pro-life issue went from a non-issue to an issue? Do you see where you have been duped and twisted? 

Therefore the only answer you will get to me is that while you choose to use such inflammatory language, I will not answer. Back down on the rhetoric, read the articles I linked and then maybe we can be on the same page on this discussion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

Did you read the articles I linked to? What did you think of them? Do you see where the whole pro-life issue went from a non-issue to an issue? Do you see where you have been duped and twisted? 

Therefore the only answer you will get to me is that while you choose to use such inflammatory language, I will not answer. Back down on the rhetoric, read the articles I linked and then maybe we can be on the same page on this discussion. 

Saved, It is s simple question.  No, I have not read the articles.  I do not believe that I should be asked to read a number of lengthy articles in order to receive an answer to a simple yes or no question.  Since you cannot seem to grant such a simple and honest request, which I believe I have done in a very kind manner, without putting words into your mouth as of yet, I can only assume that you are not answering because you believe that women should, indeed, have the legal right to terminate the lives of their unborn children.  You must have some special circumstances or special justifications for believing so and you may be refusing to answer the question because you believe the answer, in the affirmative, to be complicated.

If I read your previous posts correctly, you have only recently been baptized and, I assume, that you are a fairly new Christian (please correct me if I am wrong).  I believe that we should allow newer Christians to find their bearings and to give time to the Holy Spirit to convict them of sinful and evil thoughts and practices.  I still love you as a sister in Christ, but if you do, in fact, believe there are acceptable reasons for ending the life of an unborn child, I must inform you that you are wrong.  This is not opinion, this is fact.

Before God even created us in the womb, He knew us.  So, when a woman becomes pregnant, the being that is growing inside of her, however small and undefined, does, indeed possess a soul. God does not create a new living thing within the body of a woman and then, sometime later, put a soul into it.

(Jeremiah 1:5) "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."

Please read and consider what God says about causing a woman to lose her child.

(Exodus 21:22-25) "¶ If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. {23} And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life, {24} Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, {25} Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe."

It is at least worthy of punishment and, at most, worthy of death.  There are some subjects that are open for discussion and debate and about which we, as Christians, can hold different opinions, but the subject of abortion is not one of them.  Even in the case of saving a mother's life, it is not acceptable.

Consider this:  Say that a mother and a baby are riding in a hot air balloon.  All of a sudden, one of the ropes, that holds the basket to the balloon, snaps, but the basket is still held secure.  Now another rope snaps.  Now another.  Now there is one rope left and the mother knows that the basket will definitely not hold the weight of both her and her child.  If you were that mother, would you throw your child out of the basket in the hope that it would save your own life?  Or would you leave your child in the basket and allow yourself to fall to a certain death; hoping the basket would hold your child?

We are all going to die.  It's just a matter of when and how.  Dying while in the process of giving birth to a child is just one of countless ways we can die, and, I would argue, a noble way.  However, allowing a doctor to end your child's life, just so you can have a few more years or decades to live, is possibly the most selfish and despicable thing a woman could possibly do, second only to "terminating" their child for convenience or for maintaining financial comfort.

In the case of rape, it is still evil.  The act of rape does not invalidate the life that God chose to create.  Remember, even though we may not understand everything He does, God intentionally created a life to come about as a result of that rape.  A child conceived by rape didn't somehow slip past God; He created it intentionally and to "terminate" it is to tell God that He was wrong, that He made a mistake and that the gift that He gave you is worthy of being destroyed and thrown into a dumpster.

In the case of birth defects, it is still evil.  Remember remember remember... God created that life on purpose.  If He wants a child to be born with Downe's Syndrome or AIDS or with no legs or without working lungs, or whether or not it lives or dies, that is God's business.  He has His reasons and we have no right to second guess His decisions.  

Talk to some abortion survivors.  Talk to some mothers who ignored the doctors and gave birth to perfectly healthy babies and survived giving birth just fine.  Doctors can be and are wrong very often.  Risk or no risk, healthy or disabled, a long life or a short one, abortion is always sinful and evil.  

As I have said before, I love you in Christ, but, my dear sister, abortion is an abominable evil.

 

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saved41199 said:

So, what is the solution? Women keep having babies they can't or won't raise. Ok..so, contraception. Preferably long term like an IUD. Oh no...that MIGHT kill a fertilized egg...can't have that either. So...what's the solution? In an ideal world of Christian values, women would get married and responsibly have only the children they can reasonably raise...but...it doesn't work that way either...

Education: funding keeps getting cut. With the new idiot in DC, the public education system will end up dismantled. Then what? We will have a bunch of people with no education, no ability to hold down even the most rudimentary job, and then what? Let them just shrivel up and die? 

TANF increases for subsequent children is a strawman...even in Alaska...http://dhss.alaska.gov/dpa/Pages/atap/default.aspx

Alaska Temporary Assistance Program:

  • Imposes a 60-month lifetime limit on assistance
  • Limits additional assistance for second parents, and reduces benefits for two-parent families during July, August, and September when there are better opportunities for employment
  • Requires families to complete a Family Self-Sufficiency Plan, identify self-sufficiency goals and work or participate in activities that will move them toward those goals
  • Requires cooperation with the Child Support Services Division in establishing paternity for the children, locating the absent parent, and collecting any child support the absent parent is responsible for paying
  • Prohibits making purchases with or accessing cash benefits on EBT cards at any ATMs that are located in bars, liquor stores, gambling or adult entertainment establishments.

 

Income Limits and Maximum Payments
1/1/2016 TO 12/31/2016

Household Size

2

3

4

5

6

Each Addt’l

Income Limit

$1,412

$1,590

$1,767

$1,945

$2,122

$178

Maximum Payment

$821

$923

$1,025

$1,127

$1,229

$102

 

 

Now...care to try to tell me some more? Stop buying the anecdotal rubbish. Here's the law for Alaska. Here's the money they get. Does this really sound like the budget busting line item you think it is? 

Also, how did those counties vote in the last election? Red or Blue? 

 

Miss,

You will not be judged on what happens with the government or the world.

YOU WILL BE JUDGED ON WHETHER YOU LOST YOUR LIFE IN THIS WORLD AND PICKED UP YOUR INDIVIDUAL CROSS AND FOLLOWED HIM.

Follow Jesus in your individual small part of the world and you will be rewarded. Wasting your time with what is not in your control is a waste of your God given time to prove yourself to God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, Brother Stafford said:

In the case of birth defects, it is still evil.  Remember remember remember... God created that life on purpose.  If He wants a child to be born with Downe's Syndrome or AIDS or with no legs or without working lungs, or whether or not it lives or dies, that is God's business.  He has His reasons and we have no right to second guess His decisions.  

And in those cases (of which I know a few), do you think that perhaps the parents should receive aid to care for these children? Or should they also be forced to bear the unbelievable financial, emotional, physical costs too? Do you think that in those cases EVERY THING should be done to try to keep the child alive? 

I asked you to read those articles because those are articles that are part of what has formed my conscience on this matter. I guess you don't quite understand that I take NOTHING at face value. I research everything...comes from a long history of being the engineering type I am. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

then if you want to put it in terms of my little corner of the world...what others do is of no matter to me, right? I'm too old to have to worry about getting pregnant, my daughter had her tubes tied after her second child (and lost custody and rights to them when she chose to deal drugs and ended up in prison) and I have no more girl children to worry about. 

Because of a woman's irresponsibility in having a child she had no business having and my son who's also a blooming idiot who cannot care for that child, I will be turning my life upside down, including moving, to care for the unwanted grandson of mine. We are waiting on the final CPS determination and meeting with our housing caseworker to see how fast they can get us into a bigger apartment. I love my grandson beyond reason but I can't help but think that maybe his parents had no business bringing him into this world to be abandoned by both his parents and his current guardians who are known violent drug addicts and alcoholics. 

So...there you have it. I love him beyond reason...however, the adults in his life have inflicted more pain and abuse on him in his 4 short years on earth than he deserves. Now, Nona and Poppa will be dealing with a child who will need a whole lot and neither one of us really have what it takes to dedicate our lives to a 4 year old. I'm 52, hub is 54. Neither one of us is thrilled about this...but we do what we have to do. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read (or attempted to read*) the articles, and though you don't know it...that's pretty big for me. I usually have no interest in reading such items.

The first one *required me to subscribe in order to finish reading it; therefore, I declined and wasn't able to read the article in its entirety. Of the three writers, I only recognized one name...Albert Mohler...a man whose theology greatly differs from mine. I will be completely honest...I am biased against "Christianity Today", and I put no confidence in their writings or endeavors. The second article was in relation to how the Southern Baptist Convention responded to Roe vs. Wade. Again, while I have many friends who are part of the SBC, I put no confidence in the endeavors or decisions made by the SBC. The third article...well, I've already stated how I feel about that.

While we each are free to form our opinion(s) regarding such issues, that doesn't mean that our opinions are correct. We may believe our opinions, we may hold them firm, and we may think they are justified...however...they are "our" opinions...and "our" opinions are nothing of worth if they aren't in agreement with the opinions of God. I know that life is hard...I KNOW that life is hard. My wife and I know what it means to struggle. We know. We know more than I want to know.

I'm 50 years old. My wife and I have two children...an 18 year old daughter, and a six year old son...both of whom have major health issues. We also have two missing children. One child miscarried about 10 years ago, and the second child miscarried last week.

As I was writing this, two replies popped up...so I read them. Bro. Stafford mentioned exactly what was on my heart. God knows a person before they are formed. So while medical science may attempt to determine when life starts, that doesn't matter to me. My "secular" opinion is that life starts as soon as the sperm fertilizes the egg...if that didn't happen, none of the other things would. However, God knows us before we are even formed; therefore, life started in God's mind before the sperm and egg. However, what's more important about that is this...if one reads the verse, God says that he is the one who forms one in the belly. He is the one who is giving life. If we take that life away, we are opposing God.

It doesn't matter if the SBC was pro-choice at one time or not (which I don't know if that's true or not). It doesn't matter if the Catholic Church led the charge against abortion, so "Evangelicals" were afraid to side with them (I also don't know if that's true, but it wouldn't surprise me). All that matters is what does God say about it...

He knows a person before they are formed.

He's the one who forms them.

2 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

I love my grandson beyond reason but I can't help but think that maybe his parents had no business bringing him into this world to be abandoned by both his parents and his current guardians who are known violent drug addicts and alcoholics.

Have you considered that it could have been God's plan for this precious boy to be born so that you and your husband would raise him? I'm happy and proud to hear that you're accepting the responsibility. After all, the poor boy could just be turned over to the state.

4 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

Now, Nona and Poppa will be dealing with a child who will need a whole lot and neither one of us really have what it takes to dedicate our lives to a 4 year old. I'm 52, hub is 54. Neither one of us is thrilled about this...but we do what we have to do. 

As I said, I'm 50. We have our own 6 year old son at a time when most people our age have grandchildren. We just lost another child through miscarriage. You may not think you have what it takes, but it's there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, Saved41199 said:

So...there you have it. I love him beyond reason...however, the adults in his life have inflicted more pain and abuse on him in his 4 short years on earth than he deserves. Now, Nona and Poppa will be dealing with a child who will need a whole lot and neither one of us really have what it takes to dedicate our lives to a 4 year old. I'm 52, hub is 54. Neither one of us is thrilled about this...but we do what we have to do. 

I can empathize with you.  Other people's decisions can have unfair effects on the lives of other people.  But I know that you are old enough to understand that life is not fair.  We are in a fallen, sinful state and God has seen fit to allow us to keep the gift of free will.  As long as we have free will, we will all make decisions that will have adverse effects of other people; some of them even financially crippling and even fatal.

To answer your question, no, I do not believe you deserve or are owed the assistance of the government or from anyone else for that matter.  However, I also do not believe that I deserve assistance from the government or anyone else either.  We do not have the right to demand the fruits of anyone else's labor, nor do we have the right to the services or skills of others without payment.  

There are those who are unwilling to work and take advantage of individuals and programs.  What does God have to say about that?

(2 Thessalonians 3:10) "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

But what about those who are willing to work, but cannot?

(Matthew 25:35-40) "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: {36} Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. {37} Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? {38} When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? {39} Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? {40} And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

If we see people in need, we should personally help them out of our own pockets, our own homes and our own kindness.  If we cannot afford to so, we can make the decision to help whom we should as a local church.  If neither we, as individuals nor our local churches can afford to help them, then those people must find help elsewhere or help themselves.  

Before we start demanding that the government and other people take care of those in need, we better have exhausted our own resources first.  If you have a spare room or even a spare floor in your own home, don't you dare ask the government to help find someone a place to stay.  The government gets its money from individual people.  If you have a warm roof over your head, or can cook a hot meal or even make a sandwich, you do it yourself; you don't say, "Someone should help that guy," and pass it off to someone else.

I have had many a dirt covered vagabond stay in my home over the years and will continue to do so.  How about you, Saved?  Do you have a room you could let someone sleep in?  How about a couch?  Could you spare some money to make sandwiches to pass out?  How about even ramen noodles?  Anything? Can you just sit with them and listen to them?  Can you share the Gospel with them?  Can you pray with them? What are YOU doing? I can guarantee that the government will not share the Gospel with them or pray with them. 

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎1‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 9:18 PM, Saved41199 said:

then if you want to put it in terms of my little corner of the world...what others do is of no matter to me, right? I'm too old to have to worry about getting pregnant, my daughter had her tubes tied after her second child (and lost custody and rights to them when she chose to deal drugs and ended up in prison) and I have no more girl children to worry about. 

Because of a woman's irresponsibility in having a child she had no business having and my son who's also a blooming idiot who cannot care for that child, I will be turning my life upside down, including moving, to care for the unwanted grandson of mine. We are waiting on the final CPS determination and meeting with our housing caseworker to see how fast they can get us into a bigger apartment. I love my grandson beyond reason but I can't help but think that maybe his parents had no business bringing him into this world to be abandoned by both his parents and his current guardians who are known violent drug addicts and alcoholics. 

So...there you have it. I love him beyond reason...however, the adults in his life have inflicted more pain and abuse on him in his 4 short years on earth than he deserves. Now, Nona and Poppa will be dealing with a child who will need a whole lot and neither one of us really have what it takes to dedicate our lives to a 4 year old. I'm 52, hub is 54. Neither one of us is thrilled about this...but we do what we have to do. 

Miss,

I get it, I have been caring for a 15 year old grandson for many years. There is no Heavenly reward for doing what the heathen do naturally (taking care of family).

He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

Stop worrying over the world and injustice. Living in America means you are rich beyond measure compared to 90% of the world regardless of your income bracket. Lose your care for social problems and government, pick up the cross DIE TO SELF and follow HIM. Live the rest of your life trying to spare all people you come across from hell.

Edited by wretched

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

While I was watching brother Kurecki's video about abortion, he mentioned (and rebuked) the overly used pro-life argument: "It's a woman's right to choose what to do with her body."  When I heard that, a verse immediately popped into my head:

(1 Corinthians 6:19-20) "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? {20} For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God’s."

As Christians, our bodies are not our own.  Neither a man, nor a woman, has the right to do with their bodies as they please, because we are told that we are not our own.  So, women, not only do you not have the right to kill the lives that are growing within your bodies, you most definitely do not even have the right to choose what you do with your own bodies because, "ye are not your own."  Your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost that God purchased through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ.

I used to engage in fornication, alcohol abuse, drug abuse and have had many tattoos put on my arms.  I no longer engage in any of those things (and I keep my arms covered) because, not only are those things sinful, but I do not have the right to do those things to a body that does not belong to me.  If God chooses to cause a life to grow within the belly of a woman, it is His business.  If that child lives or dies, or if the mother lives or dies, it is God's business.

Edited by Brother Stafford

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Abortion on demand was created for adultery and fornication, for sexual relations outside of marriage.  Abortion is THE most selfish and wicked way of torture and murder the devil has ever devised, the selfish murder of an unborn child in her mother's womb, the safest place on earth.

 

God says that children are an heritage to the Lord and that he knits them together in the womb and that he knew them before they were made.  We have no right to destroy what God himself is working on.  

The Colonists went to war over taxation.  The South left the Union over state's rights.  And yet we have done nothing about the 60,000,000+ unborn children slaughtered since 1973.  Hitler was an amateur at mass murder and duplicity compared to this nation's people.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 123 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...