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The 7th Shemita is here


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Acts 1:6-7    6 "When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?"      7" And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power."

My question to you would be this: If Jesus did not ever intend to restore the kingdom to Israel, would He not have said that very thing??? I contend He did not say that, He said instead: " It is not for you to know the times or the seasons" Which does show that there WILL, in fact, be a time and a season when the kingdom of Israel is restored.

Acts 3:20-21: 20 "And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:" 21 "Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began."

What does the word restitution mean to you? Once again,  it DOES make reference to old testament prophecies, which, for some reason, you'd like to throw out??? But may I remind you, before you throw out all OT prophecy, that many OT prophecies foretold of Jesus coming... would you throw those prophecies out also? 

I find it so sad that the NT would be so silent about a doctrine of the modern day church, such as the return of Israel to their own land.

Maybe because it was already fulfilled.

The Apostles surely would have mentioned it.

Surely God in human form would have mentioned it.

So why is the modern church mentioning it?

Maybe rereading Romans 4:13 might enighten some?

Seems Abraham's seed, the children of Israel, are gonna inherit the world.

Not the land called Israel, nor Jerusalem.

 

And all who are of his faith, are included as his seed.

Makes us equal. ;)

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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You've left out ALL the promises of the OT, as well as the NT verses I showed you.  There are many specific verses in reference to "Israel", "Jacob", and "Jews" in the OT which haven't yet been fulfilled.  God made  plenty enough promises to those of us saved through Jesus, I'm not envious of the specific promises that God made to Israel.  They are the apple of His eye. Zechariah 2:8 "For thus saith the Lord of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye."

 

Instead I am thankful for the opportunity to be grafted in buy the atoning salvation of Jesus. It's rather conceited to think we would "replace" Israel in God's eye. Romans 11:18 ""Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."

 I'm sorry you don't see it (or don't want to see it). Either way... I'll pray for you.   

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Whether we think the Bible says Israel will be restored or not it's clear that Jews have restored Israel on at least a portion of the Promised Land. Christians have differing views on this and most of them have a "religious" foundation. Most of the rest of the world has their opinion on Israel and to one extent or another, religion plays a factor in most views.

Since Israel is in existence today we know God either directed or allowed this as part of His plan. We may quibble over the details, but it's obvious Israel has a role to play.

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I guess since nobody has a verse that says the all important words about Israel being restored to the world as a nation, it shouldn't be in the christian agenda of prophesies unfulfilled. A future 'state' of Israel is unimportant in comparison to the Gospel of Jesus Christ being preached unto the world, proclaiming a 'heavenly kingdom' is our message, not a worldly kingdom of basically unsaved folk who follow the idolatry of 'judaism' as taught by the religious 'jews' of our day. They have taken full advantage of Christianity and their 'traditions' of a returning state of Israel. I know Israelites are not immune to the Gospel. I do not hate 'jews', nor do I wish them suffering in a burning Hell. But unless they get saved in this life, they too, even though they were the apple of God's eye, will be cast into the same lake of fire as all lost people. God has no special salvation for them, but he is not willing that any of them perish, but some, if not most, will.

Few there be which find it...

The Shmita is powerless against Christians, and I feel sorry for Eric, and evidentally Ronda, as they are in the same crowd of 'traditionalists' that cannot see the forest for the trees.

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Good questions. When I have more time available I will answer.

Bro Alan

Who is the "Thee" in Isaiah 60:1-22 ?

Invicta,

I re-read, and studied, the context (Isaiah 59:20 and 21 & Chapter 61), to make sure of the correct interpretation. In Isaiah 60:1-22, "the thee," is definately referring to the restoration of nation of Israel as depicted in other passages in Isaiah and the other Old Testament prophets.

The, "thee," in Isaiah cannot be in reference to the Redeemer,Christ, as spoken in Isaish 59:20 & 21 not is the, "thee," in reference to the prophecy of Isaiah 61:1-3

The, "thee," in Isaiah 60:1-22 is referring to the restored nation of Israel. May I use the following two examples with a companion passge in Zechariah.

Please bear in mind. Every verse in Isaiah 60:1-22 is a reference to the literal restoration of the nation of Israel during the 1000 Year Reign of Christ as depicted in Revelation 20:3-6. None of the prophecues in Isaiah 60:1-22 were fulfilled at the end of the Bapylonian Captivity, any other time in the history of the nation of Israel, the Resurrection of Christ, 70 A.D. not at any time during the Chruch Age  either symbolicallly nor in any sense is Isaiah allegoical. All of the events, localities, nations, in Isaiah 60:1-22 are literal.

1. Verse 10, "And the sons of the strangers [Gentiles please look at verse 14 and 16] shall build up thy walls [the walls of Jerusalem], and their kings [see verse 16 again] shall minister unto thee [the restored nation of Israel; the Jews]: for in my wrath I smote thee [Israel], but in my favour have I had mercy on thee [ Israel].

There is nothing symbolic in the verse, nothing cryptic, it was not fulfilled at the end of the Babylonian Captivity, it was not fulfilled at the Resurrection or Christ, it was not fulfilled in 70 A.D. It will though be literall fulfilled in the 1000 Year Reign of Christ as written in Revelaltion 20:3-6

2. Verse 12, "For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee [Israel] shall perish; yea, those nations shall be utterly wasted."

The companion prophecy of Isaiah 60:12 is Zechariah 14:16-1, "And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of the nations which came up against Jerusalem [See Revelaltion19:17-21 for the fulfillment of this prophecy] [ALSO JERUSALEM IS IN ISRAEL] shall even go up from year to year [these are literal years and not symbolic in any manner] to worship the King [The Lord Jesus on His Throne in Jerusalem; Revelation 20:3-6], the LORD of hosts [see Ezekiel 43:1-6], and to keep the feast of Tabernacles [see Ezekiel and 44:24; 46:9, 11]. And it shall be , that who will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the  King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plaque, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of  tabernacles."

Again, all of these verses are very clear, all of the nations are literal, the feasts are literal, none of the above was fulfilled at Calvary, the Resurrection, at 70 A.D., nor in any manner in the Church Age. And, all of the  references to "thee, is clearly, and unmistakenly, a reference to the literal nation of Israel. When the Lord Jesus is referenced it is also very clear.

Also, please take careful note that in Isaiah 60:12 Isaiah is led by the Holy Spirit to say, "from year to year." In the book of Revelation the Holy Spirit says, "one thousand years."

Both prophesies compliment each other an as it is very obvious when one studies the book of Revelation carefully the Lord gives us finer details.

To interpret Isaiah 60:1-22 as being already fulfilled, either literally or symbolicly, is an ignorance of the truth.

Alan

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Genevanpreacher,

This thread is Eric StahI's thread on the 7th. Shemita. Eric Stahl menitoned Isaiah 60:1-22, you said he was incorrect, I spent a lot of time correctly explaining Isaiah 60:1-22 and adequatley refuting your interpretation of Isaiah 60:1-22. Obviously, because you cannot refute my post you simply ignore it and change the subject. I am not going to change the subject in another man's thread.

Alan

 

 

 

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Genevanpreacher,

This thread is Eric StahI's thread on the 7th. Shemita. Eric Stahl menitoned Isaiah 60:1-22, you said he was incorrect, I spent a lot of time correctly explaining Isaiah 60:1-22 and adequatley refuting your interpretation of Isaiah 60:1-22. Obviously, because you cannot refute my post you simply ignore it and change the subject. I am not going to change the subject in another man's thread.

Alan

I am not bothering responding to your Isaiah 'interpretation' because of your lack of 'futurist' proof on the subject regarding the lack of any mention of Israel being restored into their land as per the NT.

Surely Alan you understand if there is no mention of the importance of Israel being restored to their kingdom as a last day fulfillment of prophecy in any NT book, then any interpretation like you portray about Isaiah's prophecy is not an accurate interpretation.

And as so, since Erics posts have everything to do with this subject, I see it as very relevent to whether the Shmita is in fact of value at all in fulfilling any prophecy he can conjure up.

I read every word you posted. And I don't see what you see.

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Genevanpreacher,

In the following link I have re-given the list of literal events that will take place during the 1000 year reign of Christ, this includes Isaiah 60. At the time that I gave his list in my Revelation chapter 19-22 Study, you simply ignored them and changed the subject.

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The final gathering of Israel will happen after Jesus comes, see Isaiah 60:1-22.

Alan? Is this post from Eric that you are defending?

I suppose you like his teaching in 11 words?

Such a study!

But, alas Alan, no facts to back up his very deep teaching here.

In Revelation it is said that the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Quote him testifying to the Israelites returning to their land as of prophetic importance.

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Genevanpreacher,

In the following link I have re-given the list of literal events that will take place during the 1000 year reign of Christ, this includes Isaiah 60. At the time that I gave his list in my Revelation chapter 19-22 Study, you simply ignored them and changed the subject.

If it seemed like I ignored, that means 1 of 2 things Alan.

Either you were refusing give accurate interpretations or I was busy.

Sometimes It's the latter.

Sometimes it's the former.

Either way the flaws in your teachings stand out to me and you just keep saying the same flawed stuff to support your previous teachings.

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Dear "GenevanPreacher":

I agree that both Alan and Eric have the same understanding of those verses as I do. 

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

So how long will Israel be in-part blinded to the gospel???
Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (which hasn't happened YET)
 
If they are blinded in part to the gospel, we can assume they will AT SOME FUTURE point in time be "able to see" the truth of the gospel.
And how will they be able to "see it"? When (I believe, during the tribulation) He pours out His spirit upon them. 

You asked this question: "Can you please give me one verse or more in the NToutside of the book of Revelation, that states that Israel will be gathered together and formed into a nation again? Surely, if that is the case, there should be one mention of it."

So my reply in another verse in the NT would be yet another verse which helps this understanding:

Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

and WHO is Peter talking to??? Acts 2:14 tells us he is talking to " Ye men of Judaea"

and if there any doubt about whattime period he's referring to?
Look again at verse 17: "IN THE LAST DAYS"

So if he is talking to "ye men of Judaea" in reference to an event to happen in "the last days" what does that tell you????? Hmmm, could it mean that they will actually BE in Judea (in Israel) in the last days.  Of course, you will likely try to argue what you believe the "last days" to refer to. But I believe i have fulfilled a REFERENCE to ISRAEL being in their land again.

 

Interesting answer Ronda, but we are taught that the Holy Spirit will be removed in the tribulatiom.

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Dear "GenevanPreacher":

I agree that both Alan and Eric have the same understanding of those verses as I do. 

Romans 11:25 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

So how long will Israel be in-part blinded to the gospel???
Until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in (which hasn't happened YET)
 
If they are blinded in part to the gospel, we can assume they will AT SOME FUTURE point in time be "able to see" the truth of the gospel.
And how will they be able to "see it"? When (I believe, during the tribulation) He pours out His spirit upon them. 

You asked this question: "Can you please give me one verse or more in the NToutside of the book of Revelation, that states that Israel will be gathered together and formed into a nation again? Surely, if that is the case, there should be one mention of it."

So my reply in another verse in the NT would be yet another verse which helps this understanding:

Acts 2:17
"And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

and WHO is Peter talking to??? Acts 2:14 tells us he is talking to " Ye men of Judaea"

and if there any doubt about whattime period he's referring to?
Look again at verse 17: "IN THE LAST DAYS"

So if he is talking to "ye men of Judaea" in reference to an event to happen in "the last days" what does that tell you????? Hmmm, could it mean that they will actually BE in Judea (in Israel) in the last days.  Of course, you will likely try to argue what you believe the "last days" to refer to. But I believe i have fulfilled a REFERENCE to ISRAEL being in their land again.

 

I don't see your point here.  You have taken a verse on its own and used it out of context.  Read the whole section.

14 ¶  But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:
15  For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16  But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17  And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18  And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:
19  And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:
20  The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:
21  And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
22  Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:
23  Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
24  Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.
25  For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:
26  Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:
27  Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
28  Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
29  Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
30  Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31  He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32  This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33  Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34  For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35  Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36  Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 ¶  Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38  Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40  And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41  Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 ¶  And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43  And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

Pedter was speaking to his hearers.  They would receive the Holy Spirit if they repented and were baptized. About three thousand did   and were added to the church.   Fulfilled.

But there is a promise for us here as well.  39  For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

 

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Interesting answer Ronda, but we are taught that the Holy Spirit will be removed in the tribulatiom.

Invicta, So do you believe the following verse is null and void?

Acts 2:17 ""And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

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Dear Invicta: You said: "I don't see your point here.  You have taken a verse on its own and used it out of context.  Read the whole section."

I was answering the question put forth by "GenevanPreacher" whose question was:
asked this question: "Can you please give me one verse or more in the NT, outside of the book of Revelation, that states that Israel will be gathered together and formed into a nation again? Surely, if that is the case, there should be one mention of it."

By the way, AFTER I answered the question, he THEN added a "qualifier" (after the verse I brought forth DID, in fact, meet his original parameters):
"Genevan Preacher" then said something to the effect that the verse I selected out of the NT didn't count (or something to that effect) because it was a NT verse quoting the OT.
Ofcourse, he THEN EDITED his statement. How convenient.

Next, you said: "Pedter was speaking to his hearers"


Just WHO were his hearers? Verse 14 tells us very plainly who they were:
"YE MEN OF JUDAEA" (verse 14) "YE MEN OF ISRAEL"(verse 22)
You can attempt to twist that and apply it to any other people group you want, but I,myself, believe the word of God is without error! If the scripture said "Judaea" and the scripture said "Israel",well then I am pretty sure that's exactly what it said!

I think it interesting that YOU called it a "slam-fest" when I and many others brought up this same line of reasoning in another thread.  I guess it's only a "slam-fest" when the view opposes your own???? 


MY stand is thus: I believe that the bible is TRUE... ALLLLLLLLLLLLL of the Bible.
To believe that the saved (or any other people group) replaces Israel or the Jews would be to deny God's word! I won't do that.
To throw out half (or even more) of the old testament and declare it null and void would be a grievous error!

In another thread I disputed this very thing. The topic was preterism. Many verses in the OT were listed by another member, which clearly showed that MANY of the OT events did NOT "already happen" in 70ad (nor in any other time period YET to date). Just one of the many opposing viewpoints is in Zechariah 8:23 "a Jew" means "a Jew", it hasn't happened YET and it WILL happen in the future. To subscribe to the viewpoint you attempt to make- I would have to believe at least 1 or 2 erroneous theories: 1. that in Zech 8:23 it already happened- (it has NOT yet happened), or 2: that the words "a Jew" would mean any saved person (since you believe the saved replace Israel and you believe the saved will receive the promises God made specifically the Israel).  Sorry... that's not what the scripture says. 
Might I also say that those who are quick to claim for themselves the blessings promised specifically to Israel, are the same people who are just as quick to deny the judgments pertaining to Israel would apply to themselves. You can't have it both ways.
Not without twisting scripture, and omitting HUGE amounts of scripture as well.  I won't do that. In all honesty I fear God's awesome power and would not dare to knowingly distort, omit, or twist scripture to make it fit what I wanted it to fit.
 God makes it pretty clear not to TAKE AWAY nor to ADD TO His words. 
However, if you want to try to apply all the blessings to yourselves without claiming any of the judgments..it's to your own peril.

Jeremiah 17:10 "I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings."
Hebrews 4:12-13 12 "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."
13 "Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."
Psalm 139:2 "Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off."
and many many more.. 

 I came to this site to study the word of God... not to end up disputing over the same things thread after thread no matter what the topic is, it always gets hi-jacked to the same old place doesn't it???

So I must add these 2 last queries, which are:
     1. HOW does this have anything to do with the original topic of this threa of conversation which started with Eric claiming the subject to be:"The 7th Shemita is here"and his first post being: "are you aware and prepared"?
    To which (I would assume) the topic of conversation would have followed as to what we each or why not we each respectively thought (or didn't think) about the "7th Shemitah" and any biblical reference to support our premise.

    2. Why is it that on just about every topic which is started, one of 3 "members" here feels compelled to "de-rail the train" of conversation to include their personal theories as to "replacement theology" and/or "reformed theology",when in fact the topic usually has nothing at all to do with either?
    Why do those persons not start their own topic of conversation and discuss it amongst themselves (and anyone else who should want to join in)? INSTEAD of continually "hi-jacking" just about every other thread of conversation which does NOT pertain to what those topics?
I think I know the answer...but more importantly God knows the answer to that question,and isn't it HE (to whom knows our intentions) we should be serving?

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