Scriptural Baptism

[Old-Pilgrim]

I never said I forsake the asembling, I said I didn't sighn up for Jesus. There is only one Church not two.

If IFB, for example treat 'members' who are Christian difrent from non 'members' who are Christian, then they have no authority to do so, other than the man made authority of IFB.

Simple enough, there is one Body, one local felowship, one, not two.

 

[Old-Pilgrim]

I suppose, all things considered, if you are otherwise pleased with the church, their teachings and their doctrines are sound, biblically, re-baptism isn't a big deal. If it makes them feel better, go for it-don't take it as a personal slight against YOU-rather, it is against the charismatic character of the church you came from. Personally, I would look at the proper mode, and was that person born again-the BELIEVER is the one answerable to God. There's not much way of finding out the spiritual character of the perons who baptized you, so your character should be more important.

However, again, don't take it personal-Christians get themselves into trouble and take too much offense, and lose blessings. If the church is a good church, nothing wrong with membership, by the way, if their doctrines are sound, then go ahead, get baptized again, to associate yourself with them, and go enjoy the blessings!

Generaly Penticostals are Christians and generaly Baptists are Christians, when boiled down only God knows who realy is born again (and the person themselves in most healthy casies) Therefor that 'church' sounds like they are somewhat cultic, so what is the chance that their doctrine and spirit wil be sound and beneficial to Join, bad felowship can do more damage that sitting alone in the desert. So I think care is neded. The Church in Acts never had 'membership', they knew each other, due to close felowship.

[Old-Pilgrim]

 

Act 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Rom 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

 

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

 

At the time of the NT church the world was a rather unstable place.  People moved around.  The servants of the Lord moved from church to church teaching and encouraging.  We can see in the above passage of Romans that Paul sent Phebe with a letter to the church in Rome.  He instructed them to welcome her and give her any assistance she required of them.  One would presume that she was accepted in full fellowship.  At this time when the church met on the Lord's Day they took communion.  One would presume that she would be attending the church meeting and would partake in communion with them.  Also notice that Paul said that Phebe was a servant of THE church which is at Cenchrea.  Paul saw all congregations as part of one church, one body, but in localized congregations.  These congregations experienced closer fellowship with each other than we see today, but still maintained autonomy.  I think we as IFB would be better off if we tried to emulate this practice.  Fellowship is good.  There is strength in numbers.  The danger comes when a formal association is formed that begins to exact standards and lay down directives that each congregation is then held to. 

Here we have an IFB fellowship.  The local pastors get together once a month for a prayer breakfast and then the following week for a preaching service.  They encourage, pray for and strengthen one another.  They work together on projects from time to time.  But each congregation maintains their autonomy.  There is no membership of any kind.  My husband and I attend as frequently as we can and it is very uplifting.  Now, only churches that are truly IFB are welcomed into this fellowship, one has to be careful who you fellowship with.

I do believe in closed communion, because I think only the church family should participate. It is an intimate service, just like the Last Supper was an intimate occasion with Christ and his disciples.  We always have our communion an hour before evening service, only the church members know about it, so there would be no uncomfortable exclusion of a visiting brother or sister at the end of a service.

 

 

Hello, I agree with most of that, only just supose there was a brother or sister who was beond question in the eyes of your felowship a sound saved individual, but did not find scriptural permision to join an aditional organisation such as IFB on what grounds would you exclude that person from felowship/comunion, could you exclude him for disagreing about membership of such an organisation?

 

I am impresed with your knowledge of scripture. BTW

 

[Old-Pilgrim]

Re-baptism is one of the distinguishing features of an independent fundamental Baptist church. 

There were believers re-baptised by Paul in Acts, who had been baptised the wrong way by I think it was Apollos. Apollos had zeal for Christ but hadnt been exounded the right way for baptism.

 

Closed communion, a local body of Christ only, Re-baptism of believers who were baptised in a wayward church....

 

This is what you get with IFB churches 

 

 it is biblical. Completely. Try find a universal body of Christ in scripture..

 

Try find a believer baptised outside a nt church in scripture. 

Try find communion practised outside of the members of a particular church in scripture 

Wattie you are very religious, Paul in Acts Baptised someone who had only recieved Johns Baptism, our culture doesn't practise Johns Baptism, it was peculiar to that time. I believe someone who was sprinkled as an infant should be 're-baptised' after coming to faith, but only once. I know some one who was sprinkled once and Bptised Twice, I know someone who was Baptised Twice by the same person, due to recomitment. When you say 'church' do you mean a building? there was one church, they never had dedicated buildings, they often met in housies for fellowship, went to temples for evangelism, and as I think I mentioned before, they never joined or started any extrabiblical organisations, they were joined by faith in the one true God and in the fellowship of the Spirit in the Name of the Son Jesus Christ.

[MikeWatson1]

 

Act 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Rom 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

 

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

 

At the time of the NT church the world was a rather unstable place.  People moved around.  The servants of the Lord moved from church to church teaching and encouraging.  We can see in the above passage of Romans that Paul sent Phebe with a letter to the church in Rome.  He instructed them to welcome her and give her any assistance she required of them.  One would presume that she was accepted in full fellowship.  At this time when the church met on the Lord's Day they took communion.  One would presume that she would be attending the church meeting and would partake in communion with them.  Also notice that Paul said that Phebe was a servant of THE church which is at Cenchrea.  Paul saw all congregations as part of one church, one body, but in localized congregations.  These congregations experienced closer fellowship with each other than we see today, but still maintained autonomy.  I think we as IFB would be better off if we tried to emulate this practice.  Fellowship is good.  There is strength in numbers.  The danger comes when a formal association is formed that begins to exact standards and lay down directives that each congregation is then held to. 

Here we have an IFB fellowship.  The local pastors get together once a month for a prayer breakfast and then the following week for a preaching service.  They encourage, pray for and strengthen one another.  They work together on projects from time to time.  But each congregation maintains their autonomy.  There is no membership of any kind.  My husband and I attend as frequently as we can and it is very uplifting.  Now, only churches that are truly IFB are welcomed into this fellowship, one has to be careful who you fellowship with.

I do believe in closed communion, because I think only the church family should participate. It is an intimate service, just like the Last Supper was an intimate occasion with Christ and his disciples.  We always have our communion an hour before evening service, only the church members know about it, so there would be no uncomfortable exclusion of a visiting brother or sister at the end of a service.

 

 

Yes we have practise communion the same way.  I guess I get sup rises at posters in here who say they are ifb but then will be Calvinist or have open communion or never re baptize. I don't get it. Calling yourself ifb is pretty distinctive. Very different to Baptist union or even southern baptist churches. Altho there are older sec churches that may as well be ifb

[John81]

IFBs formed primarily over the issues of the five Fundamentals of the faith and the issue of separation.

"Independent" was a very important aspect of those who left SBC and other churches to form IFB churches. There was and is various differences from one IFB church to another, but generally speaking the matter of the five Fundamentals of the faith and biblical separation has been their common denominator.

Matters of the Lord's Supper, baptism and church membership, eschatology, and various standards and other matters have always been up to each Independent church to determine for themselves.

Attempts to unify IFBs and make them all more or less the same is part of what led to the various IFB "camps" forming. Most often each "camp" considers themselves to be the "true IFBs" and the other "camps" to be off or even in error in some way.

We have now reached the point where various IFB individuals, churches, "camps" and such are quick to declare themselves "true IFBs" and set themselves up as able to determine whether other IFBs are real or not. This isn't good for IFBs or the cause of Christ.

[Old-Pilgrim]

I was counting everything Scripturally wrong with this post but ran out of fingers and toes. If you are not a member of a local NT church then you are simply "not" useful to God period whatever it is that your flesh thinks you are. The universal church is for God's eyes only and means nothing for you.

Bottom line: lazy and useless believers will not join the local body because that is the only place where service to God is real and Scriptural and ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

There is a very good reason for this and without that local fellowship and strengthening received by it, you will never do anything for God apart from playing christian on the internet which is practically nothing at all. Reread Acts friend and get right, times a wasting..

If I had to go against scripture and join an institution I would have some difficult choicies, do I sit under a reformed theologian who reads from the NIV or get my wife to wear a hat and get used to felling second class, or the one who told us, 'are you coming with us to hear the visiting prophetess, after al God sent her here, we have an obligation to go hear her', thats as about as sound as it gets round here in institution land, I just don't see any scriptural justification to submit to carnal rules made up by men in extabiblical institutions in order to qualify to embibe of the same apostate spirit as they do, of corse there are some good christians attend there, and I also attend, but I guess they want me to submit to them by joining before I can partake of their table. I know someone who probably reachies more lost siners with the Gospel than most 'churchies', and he is a member only of Christs Body, institutional believers get narrow minded I guess because they all agree with each other. When would you apply the scripture Re 18:4 Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, ' I have enough of my own sins without going against what the Holy Spirit did reveal to me, I don't sighn in ink unless it is for cesar.

[John81]

While it can be difficult to find a good church home, one can usually be found with enough looking and plenty of prayer.

There are certainly points we should hold to and not become a member of a church which we can't in good conscience join. That said, no church is perfect and we are not called to attempt to find a perfect church. We are called to gather together with fellow believers.

There have been a few times in my life when I found myself living where there was not a church I would join, but I still found a church worth attending while there.

[wretched]

If I had to go against scripture and join an institution I would have some difficult choicies, do I sit under a reformed theologian who reads from the NIV or get my wife to wear a hat and get used to felling second class, or the one who told us, 'are you coming with us to hear the visiting prophetess, after al God sent her here, we have an obligation to go hear her', thats as about as sound as it gets round here in institution land, I just don't see any scriptural justification to submit to carnal rules made up by men in extabiblical institutions in order to qualify to embibe of the same apostate spirit as they do, of corse there are some good christians attend there, and I also attend, but I guess they want me to submit to them by joining before I can partake of their table. I know someone who probably reachies more lost siners with the Gospel than most 'churchies', and he is a member only of Christs Body, institutional believers get narrow minded I guess because they all agree with each other. When would you apply the scripture Re 18:4 Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, ' I have enough of my own sins without going against what the Holy Spirit did reveal to me, I don't sighn in ink unless it is for cesar.

No problem guy, just trying to help, have it your way.

[MikeWatson1]

Wattie you are very religious, Paul in Acts Baptised someone who had only recieved Johns Baptism, our culture doesn't practise Johns Baptism, it was peculiar to that time. I believe someone who was sprinkled as an infant should be 're-baptised' after coming to faith, but only once. I know some one who was sprinkled once and Bptised Twice, I know someone who was Baptised Twice by the same person, due to recomitment. When you say 'church' do you mean a building? there was one church, they never had dedicated buildings, they often met in housies for fellowship, went to temples for evangelism, and as I think I mentioned before, they never joined or started any extrabiblical organisations, they were joined by faith in the one true God and in the fellowship of the Spirit in the Name of the Son Jesus Christ.

Not religious.. I just don't want to drop any standards that seperate being an independent fundamental baptist from being a calvinistic baptist, a charismatic baptist, a universal church baptist etc..

But what I mean by church-- is not a building.. but the local body of believers, saved baptised New Testament congregation with Jesus as the Head and the Great Commission and Great Commandment as their driving force.

And yeah I agree with you.. these groups didn't always meet in one place.. often met in homes.. Paul had a church-- using the Jewish synagogue building.. etc..

But what I am saying is a key distinctive for independent, fundamental baptists is to see the body of Christ.. as the local body..  not as every believer.

Every believer is part of the Kingdom and Family of God.. but is not the entity of the body of Christ.

I was baptised twice.  I was baptised first in a charismatic, methodist church.  I don't believe they had the authority to do that baptism.  I was baptised later in an independent missionary baptist church.. and they DID have the authority.

I guess you could say the first wasn't really baptism.. just getting wet.. and therefore I wasn't re-baptised but just baptised rightly.. and then that would count as the baptism. That is a fair enough argument.

But scripture does teach that people can be re-baptised. Happened in Acts

 

 

[MikeWatson1]

IFBs formed primarily over the issues of the five Fundamentals of the faith and the issue of separation.

"Independent" was a very important aspect of those who left SBC and other churches to form IFB churches. There was and is various differences from one IFB church to another, but generally speaking the matter of the five Fundamentals of the faith and biblical separation has been their common denominator.

Matters of the Lord's Supper, baptism and church membership, eschatology, and various standards and other matters have always been up to each Independent church to determine for themselves.

Attempts to unify IFBs and make them all more or less the same is part of what led to the various IFB "camps" forming. Most often each "camp" considers themselves to be the "true IFBs" and the other "camps" to be off or even in error in some way.

We have now reached the point where various IFB individuals, churches, "camps" and such are quick to declare themselves "true IFBs" and set themselves up as able to determine whether other IFBs are real or not. This isn't good for IFBs or the cause of Christ.

Yes I guess it's most important to be biblically sound rather than adhering to any name.. but I think it is too easy to become a church that starts to look like the majority.  I guess I have never known independent fundamental baptist churches to actually vary concerning communion, the nature of what the body of Christ is etc...

Sticking to scripture is the main thing.. not the name of the church.  

[Invicta]

IFBs formed primarily over the issues of the five Fundamentals of the faith and the issue of separation.

"Independent" was a very important aspect of those who left SBC and other churches to form IFB churches. There was and is various differences from one IFB church to another, but generally speaking the matter of the five Fundamentals of the faith and biblical separation has been their common denominator.

Matters of the Lord's Supper, baptism and church membership, eschatology, and various standards and other matters have always been up to each Independent church to determine for themselves.

Attempts to unify IFBs and make them all more or less the same is part of what led to the various IFB "camps" forming. Most often each "camp" considers themselves to be the "true IFBs" and the other "camps" to be off or even in error in some way.

We have now reached the point where various IFB individuals, churches, "camps" and such are quick to declare themselves "true IFBs" and set themselves up as able to determine whether other IFBs are real or not. This isn't good for IFBs or the cause of Christ.

A bit like the Brethren.

Old Pilgrim are you associated with the Brethren?

[heartstrings]

Re-baptism is one of the distinguishing features of an independent fundamental Baptist church. 

There were believers re-baptised by Paul in Acts, who had been baptised the wrong way by I think it was Apollos. Apollos had zeal for Christ but hadnt been exounded the right way for baptism.

 

Closed communion, a local body of Christ only, Re-baptism of believers who were baptised in a wayward church....

 

This is what you get with IFB churches 

 

 it is biblical. Completely. Try find a universal body of Christ in scripture.. Wasn't Paul writing a letter to the church at Rome?

(Romans 1:7) So then why did Paul later say "WE. being many, are one body in Christ" (Romans 12:5) ? Was Paul a member of that church?

 

Try find a believer baptised outside a nt church in scripture.  The Ethiopian Eunuch?

Try find communion practised outside of the members of a particular church in scripture The upper room?

 

Edited September 10, 2015 by heartstrings

[Invicta]

We are baptised into Christ not a church.

[Jim_Alaska]

We are baptised into Christ not a church.

 Acts 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.