Scriptural Baptism

[Emping]

Hello All, I grew up in the majority Muslim nation of Malaysia, where I was saved and heard about Jesus when I was a young child. I was baptized when I was 15 years old in a Bethelic Church in Malaysia as well. This was a water baptism with immersion, done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believed in Christ first then was baptized. I saw no saving power in the water and did this simply out of obedience to the Word of God. I am about to join a local IFB church and was asked first to give a testimony of my relationship with Christ and then where I had been baptized. After hearing my response, the pastor of this church told me I would have to be baptized again to become a member, as my previous baptism would not be accepted. Reasons given were that my church, Bethelic, was a charismatic church, and lacked not only the biblical authority to do a baptism, but also was in doctrinal error concerning the Word of God, as they practiced speaking in tongues and therefore based on this again, my baptism was invalid. Was my baptism really not valid before? I believed in Jesus and all the words the Bible says about Him before I was baptized, and trusted in Him to present me blameless before the Father. Just because the pastor of my Malaysian church and others in the congregation practiced speaking in tongues, does this really make my baptism invalid? Please help me to understand as I am so confused. I am starting to think this is some kind of denominational thing that says it's our way or no way. This church also practices closed communion and is of course KJV only. Thank You! :o

[Old-Pilgrim]

Hello I'm not a member of a Organised church, I am a member however of the Body of Christ, If you were Born again before you were baptised, then scripturally your Baptism is valid. I would say don't join an organisation which tries to force you to go against scripture. Honour God and he will Honour you. I have a similar kind of problem, because I don't believe  a Christian should Join a 'church' IE I believe I am a member based on my faith in Christ, this however means that I am not welcome to brake bread in the local church here.

[John81]

I would not join a church that rejects a sound baptism and would require they re-baptize them. That itself is unscriptural and places baptism in a higher position than it belongs. If a person is born again in Christ and they are baptized by a born again pastor that baptism is accepted by God and should be accepted by others in Christ.

[Emping]

Thanks for the replies. I have a suspicion this may be a "Baptist Bride" or "Landmark" church. Week after week the pastor really stresses church membership and baptism to the point that it is of concern to me now.

[Jim_Alaska]

Three things are necessary for a baptism to be valid.

1. A proper subject

2. A proper mode

3. A proper administrator

 

One of these is missing according to the OP's testimony. 

[Standing Firm In Christ]

Jim, can you provide Scriptural support that these three things are necessary in order for a Baptism to be valid?

 

i understand the proper mode, being immersion. (Romans 6:1-4)

i understand the proper subject as being a Believer.  (Acts 8:37)

 

where does the Bible speak of a proper administrator for Baptism?  Thanks in advance.

I don't believe the OP needs to be Baptized again.  He professed a faith in Christ and was immersed.  He was Baptized into Christ, not into a denomination.

*edited to add:  Throughout the Word of God it is missionaries who we see Baptizing the saints.  Paul, Peter, Philip, etc..  Is there Scriptureal support for one other than a missionary to Baptize Believers?

Edited July 13, 2015 by Standing Firm In Christ

[Ukulelemike]

I believe a proper administrator would be one who is born again themselves, and authorized by another who is authorized, to administer baptism. For instance, I once authorized a member of my church, a born-again believer, to baptize his daughter. He was an active, faithful member of the church, and the baptism was done in the church, under our authority, so I saw no issue there.

I guess the question is, was the man who performed the baptism authorized to do so? To decide that, we'd have to know all about that man-his salvation, his doctrines, who authorized him, etc. Do we do this everywhere, with everyone who comes along? There are IFB preachers who I would doubt their authority to baptize, from their fruit, but knowing the belief of the baptized, and their faith in Christ, knowing the mode, I would still accept their baptism.

But that's just how I see it. 

[Wattie2]

Re-baptism is one of the distinguishing features of an independent fundamental Baptist church. 

There were believers re-baptised by Paul in Acts, who had been baptised the wrong way by I think it was Apollos. Apollos had zeal for Christ but hadnt been exounded the right way for baptism.

 

Closed communion, a local body of Christ only, Re-baptism of believers who were baptised in a wayward church....

 

This is what you get with IFB churches 

 

 it is biblical. Completely. Try find a universal body of Christ in scripture..

 

Try find a believer baptised outside a nt church in scripture. 

Try find communion practised outside of the members of a particular church in scripture 

[Genevanpreacher]

I see the churches point.

Would we accept a baptism from a person who got saved yet was immersed in an orthodox catholic church?

Proper belief.

Proper mode.

I wouldn't.

No authority there.

[John81]

Those mentioned in Scripture who were "re-baptized" were not actually re-baptized. They had been baptized in John's baptism, not that of Christ. Those were two very separate and different baptisms.

There are some IFB churches which elevate IFB baptism to a higher level than is scriptural. However, most don't do this and I've never been in an IFB church which wouldn't accept a baptism that was received and performed by a follower of Christ.

Baptisms received by a person who is unsaved or given by a person who is unsaved are not true baptisms, they are simply getting folks wet. Anyone baptized by a false religionist or baptized into a false religion have never been scripturally baptized. They don't need to be "re-baptized", they need to understand scriptural baptism and have an actual baptism.

[Ukulelemike]

I suppose, all things considered, if you are otherwise pleased with the church, their teachings and their doctrines are sound, biblically, re-baptism isn't a big deal. If it makes them feel better, go for it-don't take it as a personal slight against YOU-rather, it is against the charismatic character of the church you came from. Personally, I would look at the proper mode, and was that person born again-the BELIEVER is the one answerable to God. There's not much way of finding out the spiritual character of the perons who baptized you, so your character should be more important.

However, again, don't take it personal-Christians get themselves into trouble and take too much offense, and lose blessings. If the church is a good church, nothing wrong with membership, by the way, if their doctrines are sound, then go ahead, get baptized again, to associate yourself with them, and go enjoy the blessings!

[Ronda]

Emping: Here is what you said (in part) about your baptism: " This was a water baptism with immersion, done in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believed in Christ first then was baptized. I saw no saving power in the water and did this simply out of obedience to the Word of God."

Here's what Paul had to say (in part) about divisions in reference to WHO baptized a person: 

1st Corinthians 1: 12" Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ." 13 "Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" 14 "I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;" 15 "Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name." et al.

And in 1st Corinthians 12:13 it says (in part) "For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body"

I tend to agree with what John81 said above in reference to SOME churches elevating baptism (in their church only) to the extreme that it's not scriptural.  It seems to me they may be putting the church above the actual baptism? 

It's entirely up to you (Emping) whether or not you decide to be baptized again or become a member of the church you mentioned. You also stated:  " I believed in Jesus and all the words the Bible says about Him before I was baptized, and trusted in Him to present me blameless before the Father." So in my humble opinion... regardless of what the church you were baptized in practiced or believed, isn't what you believe(d) as a saved believer, and that you wanted to dedicate your life to the Lord the entire reason for the baptism you had? You already said it was a full immersion baptism in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I'm sorry to "ruffle any feathers" here, but I doubt if it were me (personally) that I'd get re-baptized or join that church, for the simple reason that the church seems to be elevating itself above the baptism. 

 

[trapperhoney]

Try find communion practised outside of the members of a particular church in scripture 

Act 18:1 After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth;

Act 18:2 And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them.

Act 20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

 

Rom 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

Rom 16:2 That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also.

Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

Rom 16:4 Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles.

Rom 16:27 To God only wise, be glory through Jesus Christ for ever. Amen. Written to the Romans from Corinthus, and sent by Phebe servant of the church at Cenchrea.

 

Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

Gal 2:12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

 

At the time of the NT church the world was a rather unstable place.  People moved around.  The servants of the Lord moved from church to church teaching and encouraging.  We can see in the above passage of Romans that Paul sent Phebe with a letter to the church in Rome.  He instructed them to welcome her and give her any assistance she required of them.  One would presume that she was accepted in full fellowship.  At this time when the church met on the Lord's Day they took communion.  One would presume that she would be attending the church meeting and would partake in communion with them.  Also notice that Paul said that Phebe was a servant of THE church which is at Cenchrea.  Paul saw all congregations as part of one church, one body, but in localized congregations.  These congregations experienced closer fellowship with each other than we see today, but still maintained autonomy.  I think we as IFB would be better off if we tried to emulate this practice.  Fellowship is good.  There is strength in numbers.  The danger comes when a formal association is formed that begins to exact standards and lay down directives that each congregation is then held to. 

Here we have an IFB fellowship.  The local pastors get together once a month for a prayer breakfast and then the following week for a preaching service.  They encourage, pray for and strengthen one another.  They work together on projects from time to time.  But each congregation maintains their autonomy.  There is no membership of any kind.  My husband and I attend as frequently as we can and it is very uplifting.  Now, only churches that are truly IFB are welcomed into this fellowship, one has to be careful who you fellowship with.

I do believe in closed communion, because I think only the church family should participate. It is an intimate service, just like the Last Supper was an intimate occasion with Christ and his disciples.  We always have our communion an hour before evening service, only the church members know about it, so there would be no uncomfortable exclusion of a visiting brother or sister at the end of a service.

 

 

[wretched]

Hello I'm not a member of a Organised church, I am a member however of the Body of Christ, If you were Born again before you were baptised, then scripturally your Baptism is valid. I would say don't join an organisation which tries to force you to go against scripture. Honour God and he will Honour you. I have a similar kind of problem, because I don't believe  a Christian should Join a 'church' IE I believe I am a member based on my faith in Christ, this however means that I am not welcome to brake bread in the local church here.

I was counting everything Scripturally wrong with this post but ran out of fingers and toes. If you are not a member of a local NT church then you are simply "not" useful to God period whatever it is that your flesh thinks you are. The universal church is for God's eyes only and means nothing for you.

Bottom line: lazy and useless believers will not join the local body because that is the only place where service to God is real and Scriptural and ACTUALLY HAPPENS.

There is a very good reason for this and without that local fellowship and strengthening received by it, you will never do anything for God apart from playing christian on the internet which is practically nothing at all. Reread Acts friend and get right, times a wasting..

[Invicta]

Hebrews 10:25  Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.