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Pre Trib Rapture and Luke 21:20-24?


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So I have a question concerning Luke 21:20-24 and pre-trib Rapture view.

20)  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.   21)  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not then that are in the countries enter thereinto.  22)  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.   23)  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land; and wrath upon this people.  24)  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.      Luke 21:20-24 

So if verse 24 is speaking of the pre-told future how will the Jews from Jerusalem be led away captive in all nations for just a short time before Jesus coming to Rapture the Church?

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It did happen - in AD 70.

Yes I agree, but I know that IFB follow the Bible as closely as anybody else, and hoping to be corrected if i am wrong about this, it is probably the only reason i am not in their church, but that may be my mistake, because the Independent Baptist are very if not the strongest group I have seen at being witnessed to the World.  Which is the Great Commission given to the Church.

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Well, I certainly can't speak for all IFBs, but I view the prophecy as what I personally call a "progressive prophecy"...in other words, though all of it was future when the Lord spoke those words, some elements of the prophecy would happen at different times. What started the prophecy was the disciples admiration of the temple, and the Lord told them that not one stone would be left on top of another. That happened in 70 AD, as did other portions. However, there are parts of the prophecy that didn't happen in 70 AD; therefore, it (the entire prophecy) can't be attributed to 70 AD. When taking the prophecy as a whole (along with the other accounts of the prophecy in Matthew and Mark), the events recorded lead to the culmination of the Lord's return at the end of the great tribulation.

I would agree that the verse in question referred to the events of 70 AD, but I don't attribute 70 AD as being the fulfillment of everything recorded in the entire prophecy.

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Brethren,

Luke 21:20-24 is not, may I repeat, not, talking about 70 A.D. when Titus destroyed Jerusalem.

The Lord Jesus continued His discussion in Luke 21:25 38: none, may I repeat none, of the events of verse 25-38 took place at the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D.

The only reason why this is taught as a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D. is due to the unbelief in the literal fulfillment of the latter part of the teaching of the Lord Jesus in Luke 21:25-38 in the tribulation period. The seperation of Luke 21:20-24 from the rest of Luke 21:25-38 is a gross miss-application of scripture.

The belief that Luke 21:20-24 as a discourse of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is definately not scriptural and the vast majority of independent Baptist pastors do not believe in this gross distortion of scripture.

 

Edited by Alan
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If we are talking only about the passage mentioned above (that is -- Luke 21:20-24), and not at all about the portion of the prophecy that continues thereafter (that is -- Luke 21:25-28), then I would agree that the reference therein to the destruction of Jerusalem is that of 70 AD by the armies of Rome.  Furthermore, I would contend that this portion of the prophecy (only Luke 21:20-24) extends from that destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD until the fulfillment of "the times of the Gentiles" (as stated at the end of Luke 21:24).  Finally, I would contend that this fulfillment of "the times of the Gentiles" is that which signals the timing for the remainder of the prophecy as presented in Luke 21:25-28 (which fits well with my understanding of Romans 11:25-27, as presented here, here, and here).

As such, I would agree with Brother Dan McWhorter ("No Nicolaitans") above, and would have to disagree on this one with Brother Alan above.

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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Brethren,

Permit me to respond.

I do heartily agree with Pastor Markle that a portion, a small portion, of this discourse was referring to the destruction of Jerusalem, including the Temple, in 70 A. D. Also, that the "times of the Gentiles," did indeed start at the destruction of the Jerusalem in 70 A. D. and fits into the proper understanding of Romans 11:25-27.

My initial response, and this response, is to more thoroughly answer 19DruggerFan initial question and to disprove the response by Covenanter

Covenanter stated, and is trying to prove, that Luke 21:20-24 is only referring to the the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and that the discourse of the Lord Jesus is therefore historical and not prophetical for the Jewish nation as described in the book of Revelation. This belief is in error. 

The following is in response to the initial question  and to disprove that Luke 21:20-24 is referring only to  the destruction of the Temple, and Jerusalem, in 70 A.D.

In verse 6 the Lord Jesus plainly states that the Temple then standing would be destroyed. The destruction of the Temple did occur in 70 A.D. That is an historical fact.

May I bring out five items.

1. Please remember, that the Lord Jesus is answering two questions that the disciples asked Him in verse 7.

    Question # 1. "... but when shall these things be." This was referring to the destruction of the Temple. And, as it was brought out by Brother Dan and Pastor Markle, only part of the passage, not all of the passage, was referring to the destruction of the Temple which did occur in 70 A. D. The teaching that this whole discourse in referring to question # 1 is not correct biblical exegesis.

    Question # 2.  "... and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass." The vast majority of the discourse of the Lord Jesus is in answer to this question.    

2. The context of the prophecy of Luke 21:20-24 is definutely correlated to Luke 21:25-38.  To take one portion out, Luke 21:20-24 and not relate it to Luke 21: 25-38, nor the previous section, Luke 21:8-19,  in my estimation, is taking Luke 21:20-14 out of context is not proper biblical exegesis. This improper biblical exegesis is taught to try and  prove that the destruction of Jerusalem in the book of Revelation is just historical and not prophetical. 

3. In Luke 21:22, the Lord Jesus plainly stated, "For these be the days of vengenance, that all things which are written be fulfilled."

This prophecy was not fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. in any fashion. This prophecy of the Lord Jesus will be fulfilled in the events as described in the book of Revelation.

4. "... all things which are written be fulfilled." The destruction of Jerusalem, and the Temple, in 70 A.D. does not fulfill this prophecy of the Lord Jesus. All of the prophecies in the Old Testament were not fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D. But, all of the prophesies of the Old Testament prophets will be fulfilled, as recorded, in the book of Revelation.

5. If you carefully read the context of the whole teaching of the Lord Jesus in Luke 21 it seems obvious that the events in Luke 21:8-19 were not fulfulled.  The events the Lord Jesus spoke of in Luke 21:8-19 are to be literally fulfilled in the book of Revelation.

Thank you for your kind attention and consideration.

Alan

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19DuggarFan,

The companion passage of Luke 21:20-24 is found in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. Although in Matthew 24 there are three questions asked. Therefore, there is more detailed information involved. 

And, you made the following statement, "So if verse 24 is speaking of the pre-told future how will the Jews from Jerusalem be led away captive in all nations for just a short time before Jesus coming to Rapture the Church?" The obvious answer is that the nation of Israel was not led away captive in all the nations for a short period of time. And, the rapture is still future. Luke 21:24, "... until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." The times of the Gentiles being fulfilled occurs in the Book of Revelation; not in 70 A.D. as Covenanter stated. 

In my Revelation chapter 19-22 study I expounded on the subject of the Rapture in a few of the posts, and a couple of the pertinent passages in the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 24 & 25, a few times.  If you would like to further study this subject here is the link to the Revelation study: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=1

I hope this information helps as you study the issue. Due to the Revelation thread being locked (for the time being), you cannot reply in that thread, but you may either reply in this thread or another thread if applicable, or start your own thread. Either way, it would be a blessing to discuss the future events of the scripture with you.

Alan

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19DuggarFan,

The companion passage of Luke 21:20-24 is found in the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24. Although in Matthew 24 there are three questions asked. Therefore, there is more detailed information involved. 

And, you made the following statement, "So if verse 24 is speaking of the pre-told future how will the Jews from Jerusalem be led away captive in all nations for just a short time before Jesus coming to Rapture the Church?" The obvious answer is that the nation of Israel was not led away captive in all the nations for a short period of time. And, the rapture is still future. Luke 21:24, "... until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled." The times of the Gentiles being fulfilled occurs in the Book of Revelation; not in 70 A.D. as Covenanter stated. 

In my Revelation chapter 19-22 study I expounded on the subject of the Rapture in a few of the posts, and a couple of the pertinent passages in the Olivet Discourse, Matthew 24 & 25, a few times.  If you would like to further study this subject here is the link to the Revelation study: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=1

I hope this information helps as you study the issue. Due to the Revelation thread being locked (for the time being), you cannot reply in that thread, but you may either reply in this thread or another thread if applicable, or start your own thread. Either way, it would be a blessing to discuss the future events of the scripture with you.

Alan

The times of the gentiles was to be fulfilled when the Jews returned to the land and when Gentile rule over the land ended.  I believe this began to be fulfilled in 1917 when Allenby led his horse into Jerusalem ending Ottoman rule over the city.

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The times of the gentiles was to be fulfilled when the Jews returned to the land and when Gentile rule over the land ended.  I believe this began to be fulfilled in 1917 when Allenby led his horse into Jerusalem ending Ottoman rule over the city.

How could that be when Gentiles were still ruling the land, including Jerusalem? Gentiles still rule much of the Promised Land and Gentiles continue to bear rule over Jerusalem even tho that city is now within modern Israel.

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Daniel 8:13,14 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed.

You men believe this was fulfilled when Antiochus IV Epiphanes took over the temple? 1900+ years would element our current time, and you don't see this happening in the future? 

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How could that be when Gentiles were still ruling the land, including Jerusalem? Gentiles still rule much of the Promised Land and Gentiles continue to bear rule over Jerusalem even tho that city is now within modern Israel.

The ending was when the Jews returned to their own land.  There is nothing to stop all remaining Jews returning to Israel except comfort in their present home countries.  They are often entreated to return by the Israeli prime minister.

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The ending was when the Jews returned to their own land.  There is nothing to stop all remaining Jews returning to Israel except comfort in their present home countries.  They are often entreated to return by the Israeli prime minister.

The Jews are only on a very tiny portion of their own land. At this point even the land they are on isn't fully under their control and direction. Between American demands, UN dictates and other matters, Gentiles still hold rule directly or indirectly over the tiny slice of Israel the Jews have in their possession as well as the rest of the land not in their possession.

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So I have a question concerning Luke 21:20-24 and pre-trib Rapture view.

20)  And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.   21)  Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not then that are in the countries enter thereinto.  22)  For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.   23)  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land; and wrath upon this people.  24)  And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled.      Luke 21:20-24 

So if verse 24 is speaking of the pre-told future how will the Jews from Jerusalem be led away captive in all nations for just a short time before Jesus coming to Rapture the Church?

It did happen - in AD 70.

What did Jesus mean when he said:

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

If we take the straightforward words of the Lord Jesus in the Olivet prophecy, we would expect them to relate specifically to the AD 70 destruction of Jerusalem & the temple. 

Luke 21:5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, 6 As forthese things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

The question is phrased differently in Matthew:

Mat. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Jesus proceeds to list lots of signs that are NOT signs of the prophecy - wars, famines, persecution, etc. Luke 21:8-19, Mat. 24:4-14  We can read of these in Acts. Then he gives signs they should recognise as the time to flee the doomed city: Luke 21:20-21  Mat. 24:15-18  

The destruction, & the fulfilment of the prophecies, will take place before the generation that rejected their Messiah would die out. Luke 21:32  Mat. 24:34 Hebrews emphasises that it will be within 40 years. Heb. 3:7-13 Psalm 95

There are difficulties in understanding many details of the Olivet prophecy as referring to the first century events, so many postpone the prophecy to the end of time - after the so-called pre-trib-rapture. It behooves us to study the prophecy with first century understanding to see whether we can reasonably understand it as referring to the destruction. 

Jesus does continue to speak of the passing away of heaven & earth, but gives no warning signs relating to that event we understand as the second coming for resurrection, judgement & the NH&NE wherein dwelleth righteousness

How can we interpret the Olivet prophecy details as first C event? What Scriptures do they relate to - both OT prophecy & the words of the Lord Jesus? I'll refer to Matthew, as interpretation is more challenging than Luke.

 20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.This obviously relates to the escape from Jerusalem, as there is nowhere on earth to run should we see supposed signs of the 'rapture.' It is reported that all believers escaped from Jerusalem when they saw the surrounding armies, but it is likely that some left in Jerusalem did repent & the tribulation was shortened for their sake. The tribulation was great because of its finality - the destruction of the temple created as the sign of God's presence with his people. Exo. 25:8 One third of the defenders survived Zec. 13:9 either by fleeing before the final siege or being taken captive. 

 23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Acts mentions several false Christs & rebellious leaders, who perished. Acts 5:34-39  Acts 21:38

V 27 is a possible problem as it implies a visible coming of the Son of man. But actually Jesus is saying any men who claim to be Christ are not - his coming will be unmistakable like lightning. 

 28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.Roman legions with their eagle standards - doubly abominations, as images & eagles. 

 29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.The sun & moon darkened at Calvary & showers of meteorites are common, & seen as portentous. Jesus warned of a coming to destroy those 'husbandmen' who rejected him. Mat. 21:40-41 He also warned of God sending his armies. Mat. 22:1-7 

Similar signs in the heavens were also prophesied concerning the fall of Babylon to the Medes. Isa. 13:1-17 

The Israelites in the wilderness knew the presence & leading of God by the pillar of cloud & pillar of fire. At the dedication of tabernacle & temple the cloud from God showed his presence. Exo. 40:34-38 Coming in the clouds refers to Dan. 7:13-14 - Jesus' ascension to his heavenly throne. When Jesus quoted that Scripture at his trial, he was condemned for blasphemy. But they would 'see' him veiled by clouds, vindicated, when his prophecy against them came true. 'Tribes' generally refers to the tribes of Israel, who would certainly mourn as their city & temple were destroyed.  

 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.The prophesied destruction will not hinder the progress of the Gospel, as the elect are called out & gathered. 


32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.History records that the believers fled Jerusalem according to their Lord's warning. Note that in Luke Jesus says: Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; not just the fig.

I'm sure I haven't explained everything to everyone's satisfaction, but I have given the basis for believing & understanding the words of Jesus. 


 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Matt 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

 

"When you see ............"  If the Abomination of Desolation was in the temple then only those in the temple would have seen it.  Those on the housetops or in the field would not have seen it, which is why Luke explains it as

20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.
Those on the housetops and in the field did see this.  Christians fled the city when Cestius in AD 66, surrounded Jerusalem with his armies.  They all saw this.
Edited by Invicta
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No Nicolaitans,

Excellent bilbical exposition. You are entirely correct in your whole post. I am sure your analysis helped the brethren with their understanding of Luke 21:20-24 and Mark 14:13-19. Please keep up the good work.

Luke 21:10-11 will be seen beginning by the last generation according to Luke 21:28-32.

Eric,

Thank you very much for your insight and bringing out to us the only correct interpretation of Luke 21:32, "Verily I say unto you, this generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."  The interpretation that this was fulfilled in trhe destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D. is entirely incorrect and misleading many saints astray in the proper understanding of Luke 21:20-24 and the future events that are written in the book of Revelation.

I would suggest to all of the brethren that is involved in this thread to sincerely study what No Nicolatians and Eric has brought out and accept the true facts.

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Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

How could the armies that compassed Jerusalem fit into the holy place; how could all of them stand in the holy place? By scriptural definition, the "holy place" is...

1. At least...it's the temple.

2. At most...it is the holiest place; in which, the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat.

I would assert that Luke is referring to the desolation of the city...not the abomination of desolation.

While I can somewhat understand your explanation concerning "when you see", we do live in a day and age; in which, modern technology can broadcast a specific incident (located at one place in the world) to the rest of the world so that they can see it. It's more than plausible that the Antichrist will use this technology to broadcast the proclamation that he is god...in the holy place...so the whole world will "see" it.

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Again, in Mark we have a little more information. What is the one place where people were forbidden to enter? No one could enter the "holy place" other than the High Priest, and he could only enter it once a year.

Someone is going to do "something" in a "place" where they shouldn't be. I would assert that the "something" is one specific act (hence the use of the word "it" in Mark 13:14), and that "something" is the abomination of desolation; whereas, the Antichrist proclaims himself to be god. He will do this in the "place" where "he ought not" enter...the holy place.

To my knowledge, no such incident took place in 70 AD.

I know this has been discussed before, but notice what comes after Mark 13:14...specifically verse 19...

Mark 13:14-19
14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15   And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16   And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17   But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18   And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19   For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Was what happened to the Jews in 70 AD their worst affliction that has ever happened or will happen? I would say no. I know that some horrendous things happened as a result of 70 AD, but some would assert that Hitler imposed a worse affliction. Above that, we only know history (to a point). We have no idea (other than what God's word reveals) as to the affliction that the Jews will suffer in the future.

 

 

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

The Roman legion ought not have stood at Jerusalem  (let him that readeth understand,)  The Jewish Christians understood and fled.  Luke was not adding anything new to Jesus' teaching.  He was writing his gospel message after carefully questioning those who knew.  

  Luke 1:1 ¶  Forasmuch as many have taken in hand to set forth in order a declaration of those things which are most surely believed among us, 2  Even as they delivered them unto us, which from the beginning were eyewitnesses, and ministers of the word; 3  It seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write unto thee in order, most excellent Theophilus, 4  That thou mightest know the certainty of those things, wherein thou hast been instructed.

Apart from that from Daniel 11 we understand that it was the Romans who were to place the abomination of desolation.

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Why?

They were there to desolate it.  

The Jews undoubtedly understood that because when Herod invited a Roman general to visit Jerusalem with his army, there was almost a rebellion then and there.  In the end, the general visited Herod but his army stayed away from Jerusalem 

 

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

How could the armies that compassed Jerusalem fit into the holy place; how could all of them stand in the holy place? By scriptural definition, the "holy place" is...

1. At least...it's the temple.

2. At most...it is the holiest place; in which, the blood was sprinkled on the mercy seat.

I would assert that Luke is referring to the desolation of the city...not the abomination of desolation.

While I can somewhat understand your explanation concerning "when you see", we do live in a day and age; in which, modern technology can broadcast a specific incident (located at one place in the world) to the rest of the world so that they can see it. It's more than plausible that the Antichrist will use this technology to broadcast the proclamation that he is god...in the holy place...so the whole world will "see" it.

Mark 13:14
But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:

Again, in Mark we have a little more information. What is the one place where people were forbidden to enter? No one could enter the "holy place" other than the High Priest, and he could only enter it once a year.

Someone is going to do "something" in a "place" where they shouldn't be. I would assert that the "something" is one specific act (hence the use of the word "it" in Mark 13:14), and that "something" is the abomination of desolation; whereas, the Antichrist proclaims himself to be god. He will do this in the "place" where "he ought not" enter...the holy place.

To my knowledge, no such incident took place in 70 AD.

I know this has been discussed before, but notice what comes after Mark 13:14...specifically verse 19...

Mark 13:14-19
14   But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:
15   And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:
16   And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
17   But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
18   And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.
19   For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

Was what happened to the Jews in 70 AD their worst affliction that has ever happened or will happen? I would say no. I know that some horrendous things happened as a result of 70 AD, but some would assert that Hitler imposed a worse affliction. Above that, we only know history (to a point). We have no idea (other than what God's word reveals) as to the affliction that the Jews will suffer in the future.

 

.  And as He was sp      

We have discussed this many times before.  It does not say the worst, but such as, and there never was an affliction "such as." that as he was speaking  of the destruction within that generation, there can be no other explanation.

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They were there to desolate it.  

The Jews undoubtedly understood that because when Herod invited a Roman general to visit Jerusalem with his army, there was almost a rebellion then and there.  In the end, the general visited Herod but his army stayed away from Jerusalem 

We have discussed this many times before.  It does not say the worst, but such as, and there never was an affliction "such as." that as he was speaking  of the destruction within that generation, there can be no other explanation.

Okay. I appreciate you answering.

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Okay. I appreciate you answering.

Thanks.  I will try to go a bit further.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophetstand in the holy place,(whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The Jewish Christians would have understood.  But I am sure they would not have understood it to be in the far future, they would have read Daniel and understood.

 Dan 11:28  Then shall he (Antiochus Epiphanes) return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. 29  At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30  For the ships of Chittim (Cyprus, The Roman fleet was based there.) shall come against him:  (Antiochus invaded Egypt, but the Roman fleet came and their general, whose name escapes me at the moment, met him and drew a line in the sand, and challenged him to step over it.)  therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: (this is when he sacrificed a hog on the altar) so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31  And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (They must refer to the Romans as Antiochus was not a "they" but a "he" )  Remember that THE abomination of desolation was still future when Jesus gave the prophecy.  THE, singular, there was only one.  So Luke quite rightly understands it as the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.

 

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Thanks.  I will try to go a bit further.

Matthew 24:15
When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophetstand in the holy place,(whoso readeth, let him understand:)

The Jewish Christians would have understood.  But I am sure they would not have understood it to be in the far future, they would have read Daniel and understood.

 Dan 11:28  Then shall he (Antiochus Epiphanes) return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. 29  At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. 30  For the ships of Chittim (Cyprus, The Roman fleet was based there.) shall come against him:  (Antiochus invaded Egypt, but the Roman fleet came and their general, whose name escapes me at the moment, met him and drew a line in the sand, and challenged him to step over it.)  therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: (this is when he sacrificed a hog on the altar) so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. 31  And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. (They must refer to the Romans as Antiochus was not a "they" but a "he" )  Remember that THE abomination of desolation was still future when Jesus gave the prophecy.  THE, singular, there was only one.  So Luke quite rightly understands it as the Roman armies surrounding Jerusalem.

 

From what I recall in history...working from memory here...I would probably agree with what you've said above. With that said, do you believe that the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31 and "the abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 12:11 are the same event?

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From what I recall in history...working from memory here...I would probably agree with what you've said above. With that said, do you believe that the "abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 11:31 and "the abomination that maketh desolate" of Daniel 12:11 are the same event?

Yes there is only one and it was still future when Jesus said "When you see THE  abomination of desolation  spoken of by Daniel the prophet, "  

Yes it is the same.

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Concerning the contextual flow of thought in Luke 21:5-36
By Pastor Scott Markle
(www.shepherdingtheflock.com)

1.  Luke 21:5-6

In response to some who were praising the physical glory of the temple, the Lord prophesied concerning the destruction of the temple, as follows:

And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said, As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

2.  Luke 21:7

The disciples ask the Lord some questions in relation to His prophetic utterance concerning the destruction of the temple, as follows:

And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

Concerning these questions, it is of value also to consider the parallel passages in Matthew and Mark, as follows:

Matthew 24:3 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:3-4 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

By considering all three of these passages together, we understand that the disciples asked the Lord concerning four things – (1) when the temple would be destroyed, (2) the sign for the fulfillment of the temple’s destruction, (3) the sign for the Lord’s coming, and (4) the sign for “the end of the world.”  By the manner in which the questioning concerning a “sign” was presented, it appears that the disciples may have believed in their thinking that the destruction of the temple, the coming of the Lord, and the end of the world would occur as a unit of events.  However, in His answer to these questions, the Lord does present these things as a unit of events, but as separate events at different times.

3.  Luke 21:8-9

The Lord begins his answer to these questions with a two-fold warning, first that they take heed not to be deceived by false christs and second that they not be terrified by current events of “wars and commotions,” as follows:

And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.  But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.”

Furthermore, within this warning the Lord provided two time references, even as the disciples had asked concerning the “when.”  These two time references are found in the two phrases, “and the time draweth near” and “for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.”  Concerning the first of these phrases, the question might be asked – “The time for what is drawing near?”  Since both of these phrases concerning time are located in the same context, it would seem reasonable to draw the answer for our above question from the second phrase concerning time.  The time matter referenced in the second phrase is that of “the end.”  Even so, we would understand that the events mentioned in these two verses indicate that “the end” would be drawing near, but would not yet be present.

4.  Luke 21:10-11

Herein the Lord expands upon the phrase, “wars and commotions,” from His previous statement, as follows:

Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.”

Now, the concluding statement of this passage is of special note – “And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven;” for it will be significant for consideration and understanding later in the entire context.

5.  Luke 21:12-19

Herein the Lord begins with another time element, opening the statement of verse with the following phrase, “But before all these things.”  With this phrase the Lord indicates that some of that which follows in His presentation would occur prior in time to that which He has already presented in Luke 21:8-11.  So then, how far in that which follows in the Lord’s presentation does this “before” time element extend?  At the least, it extends from verse 12 to verse 19; for that passage presents a unit of truth, as follows:

But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name’s sake.  And it shall turn to you for a testimony.  Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer: for I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.  And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.  And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake.  But there shall not an hair of your head perish.  In your patience possess ye your souls.”

6.  Luke 21:20-24

With this passage the question must be considered – Are the events that are presented in this passage to be included within the “before these things” element of time with which the Lord began Luke 21:12?  In order to answer this question, we must consider the statement with which the Lord begins Luke 21:25 – “And there shall be signs in the sin, and in the moon, and in the stars.”  Since this statement with which our Lord begins Luke 21:25 is so closely related to the statement with which He ended Luke 21:11 (that is – “And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven”), it appears contextually that the Lord is picking up in verse 25 where He had left off in verse 11.  Even so, Luke 21:20-24 would indeed be included within the “before these things” element of time with which the Lord began Luke 21:12.

In Luke 21:20 the Lord provides His answer to the disciples’ question concerning the sign for the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem (which according to historical record occurred in 70 AD through the armies of Rome), as follows:

And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.”

Furthermore, in Luke 21:21 the Lord delivers a three-fold concerning the city of Jerusalem to those Israelites who are alive at that time, as follows:

Then [1] let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and [2] let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and [3] let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.”

Then in Luke 21:22-23 the Lord reveals that this destruction of Jerusalem and the resulting distress upon the people of Israel is due to the Lord God’s wrath and vengeance upon them for their sinful rebellion against Him and their stubborn rejection of His Savior, as follows:

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.  But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days!  For there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.”

Finally, in Luke 21:24 the Lord indicates a three-fold result of distress that will come against the people of Israel, as follows:

And [1] they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and [2] shall be led away captive into all nations: and [3] Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

Herein also the Lord concludes with yet another element of time in the phrase, “until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”  This phrase indicates that the Lord God’s judgment against the people of Israel, such that they will be scattered among all the Gentile nations of the world and such that their city of Jerusalem will be trodden down under the power of the Gentiles, shall continue until the fulfillment of “the times of the Gentiles.”

7.  Luke 21:25-26

Herein the Lord speaks concerning events that will occur as “the times of the Gentiles” comes to its fulfillment.  Furthermore, in this passage the Lord picks up where He had left off at the end of Luke 21:11.  There He had concluded, “And fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.”  Then in Luke 21:12-24 spoke concerning things that would occur “before” those things.  Now in Luke 21:25-26 the Lord reengages His message from the end of verse 11 concerning the signs of the heavens, as follows:

And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”

8.  Luke 21:27-28

Herein the Lord speaks concerning the matter of His coming, and thereby provides His answer to the question that the disciples’ had asked concerning the sign of His coming (as per the parallel passage of Matthew 24:3).  Indeed, the Lord indicates that His coming will follow after the signs in the sun, moon, and stars, wherein “the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”  Furthermore, the Lord indicates that His coming shall be “in a cloud with power and great glory,” such that the people of the earth will see Him in His power and glory, as follows:

And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.”

Finally, the Lord indicates that the signs of His coming will be those very signs in the sun, moon, and stars, whereby His people are to “look up” with anticipation and to be assured of their full redemption in His coming, as follows:

And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.”

9.  Luke 21:29-31

Herein the Lord presents a parable concerning the signs of the fig tree in order to encourage His people concerning the observation of the signs for His coming, as follows:

And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; when they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.  So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.”

Furthermore, the Lord indicates that when His people see the signs in the sun, moon, and stars, they are also to recognize that “the kingdom of God” will be initiated with His coming.  Even so, from Luke 21:2-31 we learn five truths concerning our Lord’s coming, as follows:

1.  His coming will follow after the signs in the sun, moon, and stars.
2.  His coming will be observed by the people of the earth.
3.  His coming will be “in a cloud with power and great glory.”
4.  His coming will result in the full redemption of His people.
5.  His coming will initiate “the kingdom of God” upon the earth.

10.  Luke 21:32-33

Herein the Lord declares that “this generation,” the generation to which He was referring in that context, would not pass until the fulfillment of His coming, as follows:

Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.  Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”

Now, the word “this” is a demonstrative pronoun that serves a means to verbally point at an individual(s) or a thing(s).  In this context the Lord employed this demonstrative pronoun in order to verbally point at a particular “generation.”  However, the demonstrative pronoun “this” does not necessary indicate that the Lord was verbally pointing at the generation of His audience; for the demonstrative pronoun can also be employed in order to verbally point at an element of the context.  Even so, in the immediate context of Luke 21:32, there is a particular generation referenced.  It is the generation of God’s people that shall see “the sings in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars,” such that “the powers of heaven shall be shaken.”  As such, it is “this generation” of God’s people that “shall not pass away” until the coming of the Lord is fulfilled, until their full redemption is fulfilled, and until “the kingdom of God” is initiated upon the earth.

11.  Luke 21:34-36

The Lord concludes His message with an exhortation unto His people ever to remain spiritually watchful, prayerful, and faithful, as follows:

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.  For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.  Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.”

 

'This generation' means the generation he was addressing as in Matt 23:36.  Doubters of the word have often tried to make it mean something different. For instance Scofield says this generation in Matt 23 refers to the generation then living but in Matt 24 says it means "race, kind, family, stock, breed"  Just take it literally as the generation he was addressing and you won't go wrong.

Edited by Invicta
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'This generation' means the generation he was addressing as in Matt 23:36.  Doubters of the word have often tried to make it mean something different. For instance Scofield says this generation in Matt 23 refers to the generation then living but in Matt 24 says it means "race, kind, family, stock, breed"  Just take it literally as the generation he was addressing and you won't go wrong.

Brother Invicta,

I cannot "just take it" . . . "as the generation he was addressing," since the demonstrative pronoun "this" grammatically and literally can either (1) be a verbal means of pointing at an individual or thing in the context of the physical setting, or (2) be a verbal means of pointing at an individual or thing in the context of the communicated message.  I cannot just arbitrarily take one of these options and arbitrarily exclude the other option.  Rather, I must examine the contextual flow of thought in order to discern which of these two options is valid in this particular context.

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From the "This Generation" thread -

Brethren

MountainChristian is correct in every point that he mentioned. And, spefically, the point, number 4. His interpretation of "this generation," as quoted below is the only possible interpretation.  

"4. Future people, worst judgment of all times – Matthew 24, When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolationMark 13:14-37Luke 21:25-28 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; 26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. 27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Luke 21:29-36. "

Any other interpretation is a private interpretation. 2 Peter 2:20 and 21

 

While it is open for discussion as to whether Jesus is referring to his second coming for resurrection & judgment in some of the details, or to the terrible events of AD 70, there is no Scriptural justification for interpreting "this generation" of Jesus denunciations to be any other generation than the people he was referring to, who rejected him so vehemently. 

e.g. Mat. 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Many have claimed to be the Messiah (or Muslim Madhi, etc) but Jesus makes it absolutely clear there will be no mistaking his coming - like lightning. He is not there saying that he would come like lightning as one of the signs prior  to the prophesied destruction. 

The primary question following Jesus' prophecy was "When?" He gives detailed signs as to when to flee the city, which we understand from the history of the time enabled the Christians to escape the destruction. Then he gives the answer - before this generation passed. The destruction of Jerusalem occurred before all of this generation passed as prophesied.  

Any other interpretation is a rejection of the clear words of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Mat. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 
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From the "This Generation" thread -

While it is open for discussion as to whether Jesus is referring to his second coming for resurrection & judgment in some of the details, or to the terrible events of AD 70, there is no Scriptural justification for interpreting "this generation" of Jesus denunciations to be any other generation than the people he was referring to, who rejected him so vehemently. 

e.g. Mat. 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. 25 Behold, I have told you before. 26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. 27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Many have claimed to be the Messiah (or Muslim Madhi, etc) but Jesus makes it absolutely clear there will be no mistaking his coming - like lightning. He is not there saying that he would come like lightning as one of the signs prior  to the prophesied destruction. 

The primary question following Jesus' prophecy was "When?" He gives detailed signs as to when to flee the city, which we understand from the history of the time enabled the Christians to escape the destruction. Then he gives the answer - before this generation passed. The destruction of Jerusalem occurred before all of this generation passed as prophesied.  

Any other interpretation is a rejection of the clear words of the Lord Jesus Christ. 

Mat. 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. 3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

 

Except that when we join the three parallel passages of Matthew 24:3; Mark 13:3-4; and Luke 21:7, we understand that the disciples asked four questions of the Lord (not just the one that you emphasized above).

Matthew 24:3 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:3-4 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7 -- “And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

These four questions are as follows:

1.  "When shall these things be?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
2.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
3.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"
4.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

So then, within the information that the Lord provides in His answer, we would expect information concerning all four of these questions (not just the one that you emphasized above).

Edited by Pastor Scott Markle
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Except that when we join the three parallel passages of Matthew 24:3; Mark 13:3-4; and Luke 21:7, we understand that the disciples asked four questions of the Lord (not just the one that you emphasized above).

Matthew 24:3 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:3-4 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7 -- “And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

These four questions are as follows:

1.  "When shall these things be?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
2.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
3.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"
4.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

So then, within the information that the Lord provides in His answer, we would expect information concerning all four of these questions (not just the one that you emphasized above).

No there are only two questions.

The first two you list are one question and the second two are one question put in different ways.

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Except that when we join the three parallel passages of Matthew 24:3; Mark 13:3-4; and Luke 21:7, we understand that the disciples asked four questions of the Lord (not just the one that you emphasized above).

Matthew 24:3 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:3-4 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7 -- “And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

These four questions are as follows:

1.  "When shall these things be?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
2.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
3.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"
4.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

So then, within the information that the Lord provides in His answer, we would expect information concerning all four of these questions (not just the one that you emphasized above).

The fact that 4 questions were asked does not mean they knew exactly what they were asking - they were asking according to their understanding, which at that time was not inspired. We know that they did not understand about his imminent arrest, crucifixion, death & resurrection, so what did they understand about his coming & the end of the world?  

Did they think that the destruction would be the end of the world? And that it would take place at his coming? How did his prophecy of the destruction tie in with his previous teaching regarding the temple & temple worship?  e.g. John 2:13-22  John 4:21-24  

He taught about his coming a few days before - Mat. 21:40-43 - a coming that would destroy his enemies. Peter wrote about that coming in his second letter - and the scoffers who were using the longsuffering of God as a reason for their scoffing. 2 Peter 3. In his answer, Peter refers to the flood judgement & the final day of the Lord - the end of the planet, not of the temple & the Jewish rebels. Answers do get linked, & need to be sorted out using the complete Scriptures. 

Matthew uses 3 different Gk words for "world" -  in Mat. 24:3 - aion, Mat. 24:14 - oikoumene, Mat. 24:21 - kosmos. We need to look carefully at these Scriptures to see the significance. (In a future post.)

The questions:

1.  "When shall these things be?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
2.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
3.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"
4.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

1. When? Before the passing of this generation.

2. Signs - when to flee the city? When you see the abomination that Luke explains as the Roman armies. A lot of the "signs" Jesus gives are of events that will happen that should NOT be taken as signs related to the events he has prophesied. e.g. Mat. 24:6-12 

3. Sign of Jesus coming? No warning signs, but no mistaking it - like a flash of lightning - everyone will know he has come for resurrection & judgment. Mat. 13:36-43  John 5:27-29 1 Cor. 15:50-54  1 Thes. 5:1-4  2 Thes. 1:7-10 

4. Signs of the end of the world? No warning signs - be faithful & ready. Mat. 24:35-44

 

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Except that when we join the three parallel passages of Matthew 24:3; Mark 13:3-4; and Luke 21:7, we understand that the disciples asked four questions of the Lord (not just the one that you emphasized above).

Matthew 24:3 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be?  And what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Mark 13:3-4 – “And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?

Luke 21:7 -- “And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be?  And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

These four questions are as follows:

1.  "When shall these things be?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
2.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?" (that is -- the things concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)
3.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"
4.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

So then, within the information that the Lord provides in His answer, we would expect information concerning all four of these questions (not just the one that you emphasized above).

No there are only two questions.

The first two you list are one question and the second two are one question put in different ways.

Well, if you intend to push that thought, I would simply push back as follows:

Ok, so the disciples only asked two questions; however, both questions were compound questions, containing two parts each.  Thus the layout of the questions would be two main points with two sub-points each.  Now, since 2 x 2 = 4, in their two questions the disciples were asking concerning four aspects of information.  Furthermore, by this "two main points with two sub-points" layout, we can also discern that the first two aspects of information about which the disciples were asking were certainly related to each other, and that the second two aspects of information about which the disciples were asking were also related to each other (at least in the thinking of the disciples themselves).  Finally, by this "two main points with two sub-points" layout, we can discern that the two main point (that is -- the two main categories of question) are distinctly separate from each other.  As such, our layout would be as follows:

1.  First category of questioning (concerning the destruction of the temple that the Lord had just mentioned)

     A.  "When shall these things be?"

     B.  "And what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?"

2.  Second category of questioning (concerning the Lord's coming and the end of the world, which the disciples appear to join together in their thinking)

     A.  "And what shall be the sign of thy coming?"

     B.  "And what shall be the sign . . . of the end of the world?"

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