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AdamL

Concealed carry in church

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We can have handguns (with the possession of a restricted license)... but we can only legally carry them between our residence and a gun club at which we have membership, and they have to be double-locked during storage and transit. 

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I got into a conversation with my knowitall broinlaw once. Upon hearing that I kept my hunting weapons unloaded in the house, he proceeded to set me straight on it. I explained that my Dad taught me, from the time I was very young, that you load a gun when you're hunting, unload it in the house, but always treat it as if it's loaded. But my broinlaw scoffed at that, telling me that "unloaded guns will get ya killed". Well, a few years later, my broinlaw was out duck hunting, wading in a body of water, and had laid his shotgun on a stump, I think above his shoulder height. When he went to reach up to retrieve it, he pulled the muzzle down toward him, the trigger caught on something, and shot him in both legs; one pretty severely. That wasn't his first mishap. A few years before that he had accidently discharged a high powered rifle through a wall inside his dad's place of business. That was before the lecture he gave me. So yeah, I can see where you're coming from on that.

 

 

I understand your brother in law's point though.  If someone walks into your house (especially in areas where locking your doors is not heard of)...an unloaded gun won't do much for you.  Might as well just have a baseball bat nearby.

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I understand too. It's just that my Dad taught me to have a healthy fear of firearms and if you've witnessed first hand what a high powered rifle does to a deer, as many times as I have, it will greatly reinforce that respect. My hunting weapons still stay unloaded in my house.   But less than a year ago I bought my first handgun. (I'm 54) and I know it's pointless to carry an unloaded self defense weapon. A double action only (DAO) semiautomatic handgun with a "long trigger pull" is practically idiot-proof even loaded and chambered, and even without a manual safety so I feel much more safe with that; but not complacent

Edited by heartstrings

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It would seem to me that an unloaded gun is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  I do not keep the a round chambered though. It is my hope that the sound of me chambering a round is enough of a persuasion to keep me from having to use it.  The sound of my pump shotgun chamberring a round tends to get peoples attention.

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Big differences there. Due to sin's effects, we are going to suffer from sickness, disease and the like, no matter how we may try, so we do what we can, though I always recommend taking things to prayer first. One of the kings of Israel had a disease in his feet as I recall, and sent for the doctor, and he was admonished for it, because he didn't first go to the Lord. There's nothing wrong with doctors, but God should always be consulted, as well,

As for guns, there's nothing wrong with guns-I have a few myself, but I don't take them to church and if anyone does, I don't know about it. I trust the Lord to see to our needs-it is HIS church, HIS assembly, HIS body to see to. If He allows someone to come and cause destruction, so be it.

It also reminds me of the incident in the book of Ezra:

   "Then I proclaimed a fast there, at the river of Ahava, that we might afflict ourselves before our God, to seek of him a right way for us, and for our little ones, and for all our substance. For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him. So we fasted and besought our God for this: and he was intreated of us." (Ezra 8:21-23)    Ezra was faced with a dilemma: take all this treasure, a gift of the king, by themselves to Jerusalem, and face the possibilities of robbers on the way, or ask the king for soldiers to escort them for safety, even though they had just assured the king that God was with them. So what did they do? They sought God's word in it, and then, they took it with no escort, and the Lord blessed them and brought them safely on their way.

So really this is my recommendation: Seek God's will first, whether you will be armed in God's house, or not, in prayer and fasting. And then do as you are directed. I think there is no one right answer. If I say we don't arm ourselves in the church we attend to, that is us-I can't point to any Bible that says one way or another. But if you DO, don't tell me I am wrong for not, and I won't say you are wrong for doing so. Let each INDEPENDENT church seek God's will for that assembly.

"Due to sin's effects" we also have robbers, terrorists and murderers.   If the leaders of a church decide to put up a sign saying "no firearms allowed", I will respect that. So I wouldn't be attending that church. Might as well put up a sign saying "Attention all killers...we are unarmed".

 

Edited by heartstrings

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It's a very talked about subject here in Charleston since the shooting but most of the of the IFB I know are trusting in the lord for protection.

I have considered carrying but I have also considered my faith in Jesus as my shield of protection and just as David did in Psalm 23 there I will forever be .

We may be small in number but we are great in the power of our Lord Jesus our savior, every knee should be bent crying out for the lost sinner and concealing the Gospel within our hearts to share it with the lost of this world.

God bless

 

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The angels protected Jesus as well against any possible harm, but how did Jesus answer when Satan tried to make him rely on God's protection of him?

Matthew 4:6-7 (KJV)
6  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
7  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

I think to not take steps to protect your family, that includes the family of God, is foolhardy as well as 'tempting God" to provide your only defense.

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

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Don't get me wrong-we have plenty of guns, I just don't generally carry at church.

Where Jesus is concerned, true, the angels protected Jesus, lest He dash His foot on a stone, but it was still God's will that, at the right time, He would die a cruel death on the cross.  We need to remember, no harm can befall us unless the Lord allows it. If its not my time, the angels protect me, too. If it IS my time, no amount of guns will protect me. Peter pulled his sword and wacked off one guard's ear, and it was SO the wrong thing to do that Jesus put the ear back in place.

The same God who fought for Israel, can fight for us, as well.

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Just curious.

When the Lord told the disciples to buy a sword, what do you think about that? I don't remember reading where they actually used one for defense, except Peter of course. And then the Lord chastised Peter.

Is there scriptural support for defending yourself while in a worship service? Could Paul have been kept out of prison this way?

What about Stephen? They killed him, yet no defense.

Like I said, just curious.

i find it interesting that Peter was not arrested for using the sword against that servant.

 

My thoughts on the carrying the sword that night was that it was not supposed to be used as a weapon against anyone.  Peter acted hastily.  Maybe Jesus just intended to demonstrate to the soldiers that although Jesus' company of men had a sword, He did not want to fight.

 

We must also take note that this was not a Church service.  Yes, Jesus did go to Gesthemane to pray.  However He parted with the Apostles and went to pray alone.  They were not far from Him, but they were not praying with Him.

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Luke 22

35And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. 36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. 37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. 38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.

Having been the son of a meat cutter, and working as a meat cutter myself, I can tell you that a properly sharpened butcher knife is a terrifyingly deadly weapon. Likewise, I would venture to say that a "sword" was like the "44 magnum" of the NT world. In the Bible, it symbolizes great power. And Jesus told these men to purchase one, then sanctioned their having two in saying "it Is enough". I think that, since Jesus is God, He knew full well what Peter would do with that sword. I also think that the miracle He planned to do to that man's ear was AWESOMELY glorifying to God. Can't you imagine how STUNNED that man must have been when the Great I AM, the mighty Son of God with eyes full of love, kindly spoke to that man, gently touched his ear and restored it? I bet he never forgot that. I know, that was off topic.

 

 

Edited by heartstrings

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Indeed, Jesus knew what Peter would do with the sword and that was the reason for having such there. Jesus was able to use Peter's action with the sword as an object lesson to both those who came for Jesus and His followers.

To His Apostles, Jesus made it clear using the sword wasn't the right way. To those who came to arrest Him, Jesus showed His mercy and the power of God.

When we read through Acts and the epistles we read of Christians willingly accepting persecution and abuse from Roman authorities, Jews, and those others who struck out at them. We read of them rejoicing in such things, willingly accepting loss, glorifying God. What we don't read is any of them using carnal means to fight against those who were beating, robbing, killing and otherwise abusing them. We do read of God calling us to spiritual warfare and reliance upon Him and His ways.

Beyond Scripture we learn that in the first few centuries of Christianity that one of the things Christians were known for was their refusal to fight against those who came after them. As part of that, they were also noted for their great love for one another, their kindness towards others, their living for Christ and sharing Christ.

What is the greatest security for oneself and their family; being constantly prayed up for God's protection, engaging in spiritual warfare as Scripture commands, praying for all men and all in authority as Scripture commands; or having a gun in your pocket or holster?

If a church allows or disallows guns in their building, that's their choice. If an individual Christian decides to conceal carry, or open carry (whatever the law where they live), or if they choose not to, that's their choice.

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i find it interesting that Peter was not arrested for using the sword against that servant.

 

My thoughts on the carrying the sword that night was that it was not supposed to be used as a weapon against anyone.  Peter acted hastily.  Maybe Jesus just intended to demonstrate to the soldiers that although Jesus' company of men had a sword, He did not want to fight.

 

We must also take note that this was not a Church service.  Yes, Jesus did go to Gesthemane to pray.  However He parted with the Apostles and went to pray alone.  They were not far from Him, but they were not praying with Him.

Church services? Hmm. They were assembled... Jesus himself was there...

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

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I've been in only three "gun free zones" that I know of. One is the local courthouse where they have armed deputies. The second is the local jail (where I was fingerprinted for my CC permit) and the third was a hospital. My mom had to go to the ER a few weeks ago, we hurried up there to be with Mom and I was "dressed" as usual. But after they had admitted her and I came back to see her in her room, upon entering the visitor's front entrance, I saw a sign in the foyer "no firearms allowed". So I walked straight back to the parking lot and locked it up in my truck. It's hospital property, and that's their rules. But it's like announcing to every violent criminal who might see it "hey y'all we're unarmed and defenseless in here".

We as Christians are supposed to be "harmless as doves" and that's good. But we are also commanded to be "wise as serpents". I would suggest, if anyone is going to prohibit firearms in their assembly,  to tell each trusted member privately and discreetly instead of putting up a sign.

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Church services? Hmm. They were assembled... Jesus himself was there...

20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

however, as I pointed out previously, Jesus parted from their midst... i'm sure you know the story.  How many Church services you been in where the pastor left the Sanctuary to pray, and was gone long enough for the entire congregation to fall asleep?

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Thus far I've never seen a church which proclaims themselves to be a gun free zone (although there are probably some liberal secular churches that do!).

However, I've seen a few and heard of many other churches which loudly boast of being armed and ready to shoot to kill.

It might be better if all churches were quiet on the matter.

While most who might consider shooting up a church would likely prefer one they believed to be unarmed, there are some sorts out there which would relish the notion of causing serious mayhem to those in an armed church.

I'm thankful to be a child of Almighty God. Jeremiah 17:7

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I agree that churches should be quiet on the matter. As I said earlier, I have no problem with people coming to church locked and loaded. Most folks who would do that are knowledgeable about gun safety and responsibility, and likely the guns are on safety.

I have been in churches where I know the men (at least a few of them) were armed. Did I fear that? Nope. Was I not trusting the Lord? Nope. Nowhere in scripture does it command us to just sit and let a crazy nut or three come in and blast away. It's silly to declare that carrying a gun would be not trusting the Lord (just as it's silly to declare that one must have a gun). Men are commanded to take care of their families. Jobs provide needed money. Guns provide needed protection. Wherever the man and his family are. 

As John mentioned before, it's a local church issue. Each church is composed of people with different opinions on a score of things on which the Bible is technically silent, so as a body decisions like that need to be made. If a church as a body doesn't vote on whether or not to have guns on the property, then folks are free to do so or not as their conscience dictates.

Does carrying a gun make a person automatically violent? Nope. I know so many people  who carry everywhere they go and have never used their weapons. But that one time a kook comes in to church or a restaurant or etc., people who surround those who carry will be grateful.  I'm sure, as anti-gun as some of those who were killed in SC were, they would have been thankful had someone other than the nut been carrying.

As our founders intended, if you don't want to carry, don't. But if you do, go for it. Church is no different than anywhere else, since we have the Spirit with us everywhere we go.

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however, as I pointed out previously, Jesus parted from their midst... i'm sure you know the story.  How many Church services you been in where the pastor left the Sanctuary to pray, and was gone long enough for the entire congregation to fall asleep?

He was 'in the building' though, just at the altar...;)

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