Concealed carry in church

[heartstrings]

Better to have it and never need it, than to need it and not have it.

Edited July 11, 2015 by heartstrings

[Salyan]

I got into a conversation with my knowitall broinlaw once. Upon hearing that I kept my hunting weapons unloaded in the house, he proceeded to set me straight on it. I explained that my Dad taught me, from the time I was very young, that you load a gun when you're hunting, unload it in the house, but always treat it as if it's loaded. But my broinlaw scoffed at that, telling me that "unloaded guns will get ya killed". Well, a few years later, my broinlaw was out duck hunting, wading in a body of water, and had laid his shotgun on a stump, I think above his shoulder height. When he went to reach up to retrieve it, he pulled the muzzle down toward him, the trigger caught on something, and shot him in both legs; one pretty severely. That wasn't his first mishap. A few years before that he had accidently discharged a high powered rifle through a wall inside his dad's place of business. That was before the lecture he gave me. So yeah, I can see where you're coming from on that.

 

 

He pulled the muzzle of a loaded gun down toward him??!!?? Ayiyi. There's something to be said for Canadian gun safety training (required to get a license), that is pretty much all about one point - Never, ever point any gun at yourself or anyone else. 

[Genevanpreacher]

Just curious.

When the Lord told the disciples to buy a sword, what do you think about that? I don't remember reading where they actually used one for defense, except Peter of course. And then the Lord chastised Peter.

Is there scriptural support for defending yourself while in a worship service? Could Paul have been kept out of prison this way?

What about Stephen? They killed him, yet no defense.

Like I said, just curious.

Edited July 12, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[heartstrings]

He pulled the muzzle of a loaded gun down toward him??!!?? Ayiyi. There's something to be said for Canadian gun safety training (required to get a license), that is pretty much all about one point - Never, ever point any gun at yourself or anyone else. 

Yes, I taught gun safety to both of my boys and, when it was time for licenses, took them both to gun safety courses. Note the pellet gun pointed in a safe direction. Also note the red ocre "indian paint" on the faces of my two wild men. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=109299779082281&set=pb.100000067771529.-2207520000.1436723428.&type=3&theater

[John81]

Back when I was in school they started requiring gun safety courses for minors who hadn't already had a license. I already had a license but took the course anyway to see if I could learn anything. What I learned was most of those in the class didn't take it seriously and I wouldn't want to be around any of them if they had a gun.

One of them is now dead from a "firearm accident". A friend and I were nearly shot by another as we were walking through the woods. They had shot at a squirrel in a tree, missed and the squirrel jumped from the tree and shucked through the brush and this idiot commenced to firing his rifle haphazardly in the general direction the squirrel had run! A bullet zipped though the air between me and my friend and we began yelling at him. He stopped shooting and ran off.

Just curious.

When the Lord told the disciples to buy a sword, what do you think about that? I don't remember reading where they actually used one for defense, except Peter of course. And then the Lord chastised Peter.

Is there scriptural support for defending yourself while in a worship service? Could Paul have been kept out of prison this way?

What about Stephen? They killed him, yet no defense.

Like I said, just curious.

If you read the accounts of Christians in the NT, as well as accounts for Christian during the first 300 to 400 years, they were known for not resisting. We read in Scripture of Christians suffering the loss of their possessions, being arrested, beaten, killed for their faith and they accepted such with gladness. We read of the same thing in the accounts of early Christians in history. That was one of the factors which greatly and clearly separated Christ followers from all others.

Not surprisingly we tend to bristle at such and especially in America we tend to want to do battle in the physical realm rather than the spiritual as Scripture commands. We scream of persecution if a store doesn't hang a "Merry Christmas" banner and form protests, pickets, internet campaigns, email wars, etc. At the same time, there are those who come to Christ in other parts of the world KNOWING they will be disowned by their own family, friends, town and nearly their whole nation. They accept the abuse heaped upon them, sharing and showing the love of Christ, rejoicing they are counted worthy to suffer for Christ.

They fully trust Christ and are willing to literally give their all for Christ. If someone yells in our face calling us a stupid Christian (or something more vulgar) and shoves us we are ready to brawl, with no thought of eternal matters and certainly no thought of rejoicing in suffering for Christ. Humbling and convicting to ponder.

[Ukulelemike]

Some trust in chariots and some in horses, but we will remember the name of the LORD our God.

Is God's arm shortened that He cannot save?

[heartstrings]

Why not just trust the Lord instead of having any insurance policies? Stop going to the doctor or hospital when you get sick, and just pray about it? Do you lock your doors at night?

[Ukulelemike]

Big differences there. Due to sin's effects, we are going to suffer from sickness, disease and the like, no matter how we may try, so we do what we can, though I always recommend taking things to prayer first. One of the kings of Israel had a disease in his feet as I recall, and sent for the doctor, and he was admonished for it, because he didn't first go to the Lord. There's nothing wrong with doctors, but God should always be consulted, as well,

As for guns, there's nothing wrong with guns-I have a few myself, but I don't take them to church and if anyone does, I don't know about it. I trust the Lord to see to our needs-it is HIS church, HIS assembly, HIS body to see to. If He allows someone to come and cause destruction, so be it.

It also reminds me of the incident in the book of Ezra:

   "Then I proclaimed a fast there, at the river of Ahava, that we might afflict ourselves before our God, to seek of him a right way for us, and for our little ones, and for all our substance. For I was ashamed to require of the king a band of soldiers and horsemen to help us against the enemy in the way: because we had spoken unto the king, saying, The hand of our God is upon all them for good that seek him; but his power and his wrath is against all them that forsake him. So we fasted and besought our God for this: and he was intreated of us." (Ezra 8:21-23)    Ezra was faced with a dilemma: take all this treasure, a gift of the king, by themselves to Jerusalem, and face the possibilities of robbers on the way, or ask the king for soldiers to escort them for safety, even though they had just assured the king that God was with them. So what did they do? They sought God's word in it, and then, they took it with no escort, and the Lord blessed them and brought them safely on their way.

So really this is my recommendation: Seek God's will first, whether you will be armed in God's house, or not, in prayer and fasting. And then do as you are directed. I think there is no one right answer. If I say we don't arm ourselves in the church we attend to, that is us-I can't point to any Bible that says one way or another. But if you DO, don't tell me I am wrong for not, and I won't say you are wrong for doing so. Let each INDEPENDENT church seek God's will for that assembly.

[Salyan]

I've thought on this topic before - defending oneself against attack, individually and in the church. Although I absolutely believe we have the right to defend ourselves and those around us, I have the strangest feeling that perhaps one shouldn't necessarily defend oneself with deadly force when one is being persecuted for one's faith. And by that I mean actual persecution - not just a crazy guy out to kill who's picking a convenient venue (lots of people, nonexistent security). That opinion might change when I have kids - I don't know.   That being said, most of the church shootings I hear about in America seem to be a result of crazy or racist people. Seems it wouldn't be an issue to stop them. I only wish I could concealed carry. Rifles are a little hard to hide, even under long skirts. Ain't nobody that tall.  

[heartstrings]

I take it you aren't allowed to have handguns?

Here in Florida, we are issued concealed "weapon" permits. That means it can be other weapons like billy clubs, knives, pepper spray, etc. as long as it's concealed.

[Salyan]

We can have handguns (with the possession of a restricted license)... but we can only legally carry them between our residence and a gun club at which we have membership, and they have to be double-locked during storage and transit. 

[heartstrings]

But you can legally carry a rifle?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mare%27s_Leg

 

Edited July 13, 2015 by heartstrings

[DennisD]

I got into a conversation with my knowitall broinlaw once. Upon hearing that I kept my hunting weapons unloaded in the house, he proceeded to set me straight on it. I explained that my Dad taught me, from the time I was very young, that you load a gun when you're hunting, unload it in the house, but always treat it as if it's loaded. But my broinlaw scoffed at that, telling me that "unloaded guns will get ya killed". Well, a few years later, my broinlaw was out duck hunting, wading in a body of water, and had laid his shotgun on a stump, I think above his shoulder height. When he went to reach up to retrieve it, he pulled the muzzle down toward him, the trigger caught on something, and shot him in both legs; one pretty severely. That wasn't his first mishap. A few years before that he had accidently discharged a high powered rifle through a wall inside his dad's place of business. That was before the lecture he gave me. So yeah, I can see where you're coming from on that.

 

 

I understand your brother in law's point though.  If someone walks into your house (especially in areas where locking your doors is not heard of)...an unloaded gun won't do much for you.  Might as well just have a baseball bat nearby.

[heartstrings]

I understand too. It's just that my Dad taught me to have a healthy fear of firearms and if you've witnessed first hand what a high powered rifle does to a deer, as many times as I have, it will greatly reinforce that respect. My hunting weapons still stay unloaded in my house.   But less than a year ago I bought my first handgun. (I'm 54) and I know it's pointless to carry an unloaded self defense weapon. A double action only (DAO) semiautomatic handgun with a "long trigger pull" is practically idiot-proof even loaded and chambered, and even without a manual safety so I feel much more safe with that; but not complacent

Edited July 16, 2015 by heartstrings

[2bLikeJesus]

It would seem to me that an unloaded gun is about as useful as a screen door on a submarine.  I do not keep the a round chambered though. It is my hope that the sound of me chambering a round is enough of a persuasion to keep me from having to use it.  The sound of my pump shotgun chamberring a round tends to get peoples attention.