What is your position on music and why?

[Jordan Kurecki]

I am just curious, what is your position on music?

 

What do you think of Christian Rock?

What about Southern Gospel?

What about Bluegrass gospel?

 

What principles do you use in determining whether or not you will listen to a certain style?

 

[TheSword]

Do you mean for personal listening or for a worship service or both?

[Jordan Kurecki]

I mean both.

 

which brings me to another question, should there be a difference?

 

what do you think?

[Ukulelemike]

I am just curious, what is your position on music?

 

What do you think of Christian Rock?

What about Southern Gospel?

What about Bluegrass gospel?

 

What principles do you use in determining whether or not you will listen to a certain style?

 

Primarily, when I consider any kind of 'gospel' music, I look at the styles of music it emulates, and consider the character of that style-its associations and fruit. Since as Christians we are not supposed to emulate the world and its fads, this must be taken into consideration: what are we emulating? So...

Christian rock. No such animal. Rock music is based, historically, (coming from blues and jazz) on very sensual, rebellious music. Its fruits are rebellion, violence, disobedience to authority, drugs, alcohol, eastern philosophies, etc. We don't even need to consider the lyrics when we consider the music itself, as even by those who played and support it, the most important aspect of the music is the beat and the music, that they have their own message. In their own words, the beat is about sex. Even the name, rock and roll, comes historically from an old blues term for sex. Hence, when KISS sings "I wanna rock n roll all night, and party every day", they are saying they want sex all night, parties all day.  When Michael Jackson sang "I wanna rock with you all night", he didn't mean he wanted to play music all night. 

As well, out of the CCM/Christian rock movement has come heavy ecumenism, as well as a lot of them 'coming out' as homosexual, we see the fruits of the secular music coming out clearly and loudly in CCM. So, Christian rock, because of the fruit and association of the music style itself,  as well as aspects of that same fruit beginning to be seen in CCM, is a big NO.

Southern Gospel. These days, it is little different from Christian rock. The beginnings were a bit tamer, but the style itself is based on country music, which itself has a history of being about the bars, honky-tonks, beer and booze, and sex.  I would stay away from most southern gospel-it seems to be a bridge to CCM.

Bluegrass gospel.  This is a little different, though even this needs to be considered carefully. Bluegrass came from the folk music of Ireland and Scotland, and as it moved into America, many of the same instruments and styles continued on, if a bit modified, and became bluegrass music, which itself was just a style of folk music. A lot of early hymns were incorporated into bluegrass, and sung by the family around the home, particularly in the Appalachians and such places. As far as I know there has not been a great amount of wickedness associated with the music, though I'm not an expert. I have heard some bluegrass gospel I really like, some that was written in the style, and I have heard some that was pretty weak and worthless, as well. So it would need to be carefully considered, piece by piece.

As for what to use IN the assembly, we would need to consider what fits into 'psalms, hymns and spiritual songs'. Like, we know what Psalms are-the book of Psalms. There, of course, we would need to consider what music it was put to. I would avoid most popular styles, stick to a simple hymn, or bar style, with an easy 3/4 or 4/4 beat. Why? Again, these are based off, initially, on old folk style that has always been the basis of old hymns. Not used for filthy purposes before hand, then re-written for God. I believe for that very reason, it is a good, safe style to use. Its really not associated with anything else.

 

Its really not too hard-we should seek to be clearly NOT like the faddish, ever-changing styles of the world, be it in dress or music-hymns, as we know them, have been around for over 500 years-they have some staying power. Even bluegrass has roots that go back over 400 years, like the King James Bible. But American Christians always seem to want something new and exciting to the senses, so they want to use the temporary fads of the world to kick up the emotions-that's because there is no Spirit, perhaps, so there needs to be emotions to fill the void. Kind of like the massive, impressive, ,awe-inspiring edifices used by the Catholics and LDS churches-to fill emotions and take the place of the Spirit of God, since He isn't there. Seek the old paths, where are the good ways...

[TheSword]

I agree with most of what Mike says, though I don't think Southern Gospel has slipped quite that far and doesn't necessarily echo country music as closely other CCM genres mimic their counterparts (generally speaking of course). I would add for consideration is that all music is designed to evoke an emotional response. If that response isn't a spiritual one that causes you to exalt Christ or stir your heart toward His will, then it's out of bounds. I would also add that after styles/sounds, lyrics must also be considered because we tend to internalize sentiments expressed through our favorite songs. I can't count how many people (preachers included) use song lyrics as an illustration to make a point about life and principles to live by. Unscriptural lyrics set to a hymn tune is, in my humble opinion, worse than Amazing Grace set to a rock tune.

[EKSmith]

brother Jordan I'm posting a link. That is wrote by Paul D Race of the school of rock.com.he is a supporter of ccm and gives very detailed history of ccm . He lays it out as the lie it is though he is all for ccm .he details this ungodly music very well in its early roots.

schooloftherock.com,htm,a_brief_history of comtempary music.

I hope this will help you out in your studies about music.

 

also anyone who's church or self is swaying toward ccm should read this. It's quit long but its worth the time to know the truth of this deception .ccm

God bless

 

 

[Ukulelemike]

Another thing to consider, of all the music instruments mentioned in the OT, which is where many CCM users justify their music, only a few of them were allowed in the temple or tabernacle, and only the Levites could play them, except the trumpets, which had to be the priests. So it wasn't any old instrument, and it wasn't anyone who wanted to play or sing. Other instruments were encouraged for use for general praise outside the temple, but only, maybe 4, I think, we allowed in the temple for actual worship and praise there. 

That being said, we should carefully consider that what we do in the assembly should not always be the same as we might do outside the assembly. Granted, there is no clear teaching on instrumental use in the churches, but considering that once, there were instruments FOR official corporate worship and others were not allowed, it should remind us that the gathering of the church is NOT the same as just an informal get-together.

[Jordan Kurecki]

brother Jordan I'm posting a link. That is wrote by Paul D Race of the school of rock.com.he is a supporter of ccm and gives very detailed history of ccm . He lays it out as the lie it is though he is all for ccm .he details this ungodly music very well in its early roots.

schooloftherock.com,htm,a_brief_history of comtempary music.

I hope this will help you out in your studies about music.

 

also anyone who's church or self is swaying toward ccm should read this. It's quit long but its worth the time to know the truth of this deception .ccm

God bless

 

 

i wasnt quite sure what I was suppose to get out of that long article.

[EKSmith]

i wasnt quite sure what I was suppose to get out of that long article.

I thought it would help with the many questions you post concerning music and ones thoughts ,this is my answer it clarifies the lies and deception of ccm from a man whom has been teaching this deception for long time and there is a lot to be learned and with understanding one will reveal the Word of Gods Truth to the unlearned of this great deception . Please don't think I'm saying you are one of these people it was not my intent in my post. Please forgive me if I misunderstood the topic .

God bless Brother

 

 

 

[Heir of Salvation]

I am just curious, what is your position on music?

 

What do you think of Christian Rock?

What about Southern Gospel?

What about Bluegrass gospel?

 

What principles do you use in determining whether or not you will listen to a certain style?

 

I have no "position" on any of these styles.

Music is first and foremost to glorify God.  Secondarily, it can minister to the believer, or carry lyrics to convict the sinner.  But, Fundamentally, it's primary purpose is God's glorification.

There is no one particular style or set of styles that are either acceptable or unacceptable, some things which have worked their way into the hymnals are worthless, and some songs written and performed by "Contemporary" Artists I find to be wonderful, Christ-honoring and brilliantly executed.  The lyrics, are, I think, the most important factor.  The style itself is irrelevant. 

People (not styles of music) are "rebellious".

"The question" about what styles of music a Christian "should" or "should not" listen to, or play, is one of our own making and not addressed in Scripture.  The debate exists only in our own minds.

[EKSmith]

I was once lead astray by this type of thinking I knew very little about ccm because it was fairly new at the time but as I performed it in church God begin to show me the deception of ccm and its charm it has on people I've looked into the faces of people as I performed it in the church and saw the confusing mystical charm and its effect upon many faces. As a musician I preformed in many bars seeing the same effect on the lost sinners face.ccm is about preforming and money its mystical and charming (watch them wave the arms and their hand signs then go to the Ozzie feast you'll see the same thing honoring his father Satan). As for the words most of them are taking from psalms a verse here and one there its then a song and clearly many of the songs are nothing but chanting yet the song the river is hear the main theme song for the evangelical movement the words make no sense at all . In all ccm is not uplifting nor honors our father in heaven at all .its Satans lie.i repented of my failure that cause me so much heart ache and pain seeing a once good church destroyed . if one would read in Amos of Gods anger with Israel for taking of the psalms of David and chanting them one can very well relate this to ccm today.but the worldly church does not seek the truths of Gods word .i sing hymns at church and sing them at home and any other comes from my heart personally to my Lord and Savior.

 

God Bless

 

 

 

[MountainChristian]

.................................

I am just curious, what is your position on music? I like it.

What do you think of Christian Rock? No

What about Southern Gospel? No

What about Bluegrass gospel? If I know the singers.

What principles do you use in determining whether or not you will listen to a certain style? Who is playing/singing it. How do they live their life. Do they sing to glory their good voices or sing to give God glory. Even old timey hymns can be ruined by a pride filled singer showing off how well they can sing. 

 

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I have no "position" on any of these styles.

Music is first and foremost to glorify God.  Secondarily, it can minister to the believer, or carry lyrics to convict the sinner.  But, Fundamentally, it's primary purpose is God's glorification.

There is no one particular style or set of styles that are either acceptable or unacceptable, some things which have worked their way into the hymnals are worthless, and some songs written and performed by "Contemporary" Artists I find to be wonderful, Christ-honoring and brilliantly executed.  The lyrics, are, I think, the most important factor.  The style itself is irrelevant. 

People (not styles of music) are "rebellious".

"The question" about what styles of music a Christian "should" or "should not" listen to, or play, is one of our own making and not addressed in Scripture.  The debate exists only in our own minds.

Musical communicates on it's own message apart from the words. To only focus on the words of a piece of music and ignore the musical style would be like to only listen to the script of a movie and ignore the actually scenery, you only are focusing on one PART of the communication.

Consider the following quotes from David Cloud

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO TAVERNS AND NIGHT CLUBS ALWAYS PLAY A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? The reason this is the case is because music is not neutral, and taverns and bars play a kind of music that fits the lifestyle of that setting. Music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY WOULD A VOODOO PRIESTESS SAY THAT HER GODS RESPOND TO CERTAIN RHYTHMS?Consider this quote carefully: “The rhythm is more important than the meaning of the words. Our gods respond to rhythm above all else” (a Macumba priestess in Brazil, quoted in African Rhythm & Sensibility). The voodoo priestess says this because she knows that music is not neutral and that certain rhythms interact with the spirit world. What a loud warning to those who have ears to hear! 

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY IS IT THAT THE MOVIE “TEXT PAINTER” CAN USE DIFFERENT STYLES OF MUSIC TO CREATE DIFFERENT EMOTIONS? This can be illustrated by the old silent movies. There were no words to the movies except the text shown on the screen, but the musicians (sometimes a lone pianist or organist; sometimes an orchestra) could create feelings of fear, haste, happiness, sorrow, romance, anger, indignation, tension, uncertainty, merely by changing the style of music. If there was a scene with the bad guy slowly sneaking up on the unsuspecting, sleeping heroin, the music would be tense and gloomy. If upbeat classical or peppy march music were put to that type of scene, the movie would be like a comedy, because the acting would be saying one thing and the music would be saying something different. The movie text painter can create different emotions with different styles of music for the simple reason that music is NOT neutral.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE 1960S LSD NEW AGE GURU TIMOTHY LEARY SAY, “DON’T LISTEN TO THE WORDS, IT’S THE MUSIC THAT HAS ITS OWN MESSAGE” (Leary, Politics of Ecstasy). Leary said this because he knew that music is a language.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE WORLD FAMOUS CONDUCTOR LEONARD BERNSTEIN SAY THAT MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE THAT REACHES THE HEART: “Music doesn’t have to pass through the censor of the brain before it can reach the heart. An f sharp doesn’t have to be considered in the mind; it is a direct hit, and therefore all the more powerful” (Bernstein, The Joy of Music).

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID JOSHUA DISCERN THAT THE MUSIC COMING UP FROM THE CAMP OF ISRAEL WAS “A NOISE OF WAR”? (Exodus 32:17). If music is neutral, how could he make any judgment at all about the nature of what he was hearing? 

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO CHILDREN REACT DIFFERENTLY TO VARIOUS KINDS OF MUSIC? After visiting a church while on vacation, one of my readers submitted the following, “Why did my children behave properly during the traditional morning service, but jump around like they had ‘ants in their pants’ for 45 minutes during the loud rockish night service at a church we were visiting?”
 

 

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/if_music_is_neutral.html

Edited July 12, 2015 by Jordan Kurecki

[Ukulelemike]

I have a few different positions:

[Heir of Salvation]

 

 

Musical communicates on it's own message apart from the words. 

No, it doesn't.

It can illicit emotions, or perhaps create a certain mood.........it doesn't carry a "message".

To only focus on the words of a piece of music and ignore the musical style would be like to only listen to the script of a movie and ignore the actually scenery, you only are focusing on one PART of the communication.

No, it wouldn't.... That's an argument from analogy, which is, by definition, an invalid argument.....There is no "scenery" in music, only in film.  It wouldn't be like that.

Consider the following quotes from David Cloud

I don't recall voting him as Pope of Independent Baptists, but, please, go on:

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DO TAVERNS AND NIGHT CLUBS ALWAYS PLAY A CERTAIN KIND OF MUSIC? The 

Ummmm.............

They DON'T??? 

I've been in enough "taverns" and "night clubs" to know there isn't a style you could name that can't be heard at any number of them.......For instance, Bluegrass, which I note so many on hear are quick to defend (because they like it) is the exclusive musical form played at a tavern called the "Tin Cup" in my town.....Rock, isn't played there.

I've heard "Amazing Grace" played at night-clubs before.....and what you might call "Classical".

EVERY style is played at such places.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY WOULD A VOODOO PRIESTESS SAY THAT HER GODS RESPOND TO CERTAIN RHYTHMS?

Voodoo priestesses are insane and demonically influenced.

I allow them to inform my position on music about as much as I allow David Cloud to, which is to say......

Not all that much.

I could probably find a "Voodoo Priestess" who says precisely the opposite.......It's a VOODOO PRIESTESS!!!!!

Consider this quote carefully: “The rhythm is more important than the meaning of the words. Our gods respond to rhythm above all else” (a Macumba priestess in Brazil, quoted in African Rhythm & Sensibility).

"Voodoo" is not indigenous to Brazil........not even close.

Nor is it a specified or respectable Theological Tradition with norms or mores.  

I can produce for you a P.H.D. Physicist who worked on alien spacecraft at Area 51 in the 80's.......(Just listen to Coast to Coast A.M. at night).

Why? would a P.H.D. Physicist who worked at "Area 51" work on Alien Spacecraft?   Answer me that.

If all musical styles are neutral, 

It isn't about "neutrality"......it's simply that they are neither inherently "good" or "evil" they illicit emotions, yes, NONE OF WHICH are inherently Good or Evil, HOW they are reacted to is critical.  

WHY IS IT THAT THE MOVIE “TEXT PAINTER” CAN USE DIFFERENT STYLES OF MUSIC TO CREATE DIFFERENT EMOTIONS? 

Because Different Styles of Music can create Different Emotions....

Name one "emotion" which in and of itself is inherently evil in all applications, and...I'll concede your point.

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE 1960S LSD NEW AGE GURU TIMOTHY LEARY SAY, “DON’T LISTEN TO THE WORDS, IT’S THE MUSIC THAT HAS ITS OWN MESSAGE” (Leary, Politics of Ecstasy).

Maybe he was high on LSD????

Leary said this because he knew that music is a language.

O.K.....

Then which "Languages" in and of themselves would you call inherently evil and subsequently incapable of glorifying God?

Does God not accept petitions to him in say....Urdu, or perhaps CREOLE....like those nasty voodoo priestesses use?

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID THE WORLD FAMOUS CONDUCTOR LEONARD BERNSTEIN SAY THAT MUSIC IS A LANGUAGE THAT REACHES THE HEART: “Music doesn’t have to pass through the censor of the brain before it can reach the heart. An f sharp doesn’t have to be considered in the mind; it is a direct hit, and therefore all the more powerful” (Bernstein, The Joy of Music).

Because Bernstein understood music, that's why he said it.

He's also correct.

But what does "Neutrality"??? have to do with it?  

Did Bernstein say certain styles not particularly popular or beloved amongst the majority of incurably Southern Independent Baptists were morally evil?

Where does this word "neutrality" come from?

If all musical styles are neutral, WHY DID JOSHUA DISCERN THAT THE MUSIC COMING UP FROM THE CAMP OF ISRAEL WAS “A NOISE OF WAR”? (Exodus 32:17). If music is neutral, how could he make any judgment at all about the nature of what he was hearing? 

Because some music is decidedly marshal.

My favourite composer, for instance, is Charles Francois Gounod.....  he wrote an entire series of compositions for Napoleon's army called "Hymns for the Nation, the Church and the Army".  They're beautiful, and inately marshal in their feel.  They illicit emotions.

There's a reason that "Marches" are, by definition, written in a 2/2 meter.....

Because 2/2 is marshal.

 WHY DO CHILDREN REACT DIFFERENTLY TO VARIOUS KINDS OF MUSIC? 

For the same reason adults respond differently (and in the exact same way) to the same types of music...Because different styles lend themselves to different basic emotional responses.  All of which, I might add, are neither inherently good nor inherently evil.

Let's argue that say, "Heavy Metal" is designed to induce feelings similar to anger, or belligerence <-- (in the classical sense of the word)....not "rebelliousness".

Are those inherently EVIL?

Is anger ALWAYS wrong?

Is marshal Belligerence evil in every application?......No, ABUSE of any of those natural emotions is evil, not the emotions themselves.