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Potatochip

Atheists and delusion

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I didn't even know that I simply assumed they felled the building for safety reasons.  You have to be aware there are agitators and anarchists that can put anything they want on the web.  People that simply don't like the US.  They could be communists,  socialists or just plain anarchists.  They used to distribute literature like that before the web.  I'd be careful who I listened to. 

Yes, I kind of wondered that myself as Old Pilgrim was putting me down about how I trusted the government.  But, most of the sites that promote these conspiracies are ran by some crazy individuals (i.e. communists and anarchists like you said).

Of course, it's not about me trusting the government blindly...it's just that I've never seen any proof that shows these conspiracies have any merit whatsoever.

Edited by DennisD

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Yes, I kind of wondered that myself as Old Pilgrim was putting me down about how I trusted the government.  But, most of the sites that promoted these conspiracies are ran by some crazy individuals (i.e. communists and anarchists like you said).

Of course, it's not about me trusting the government blindly...it's just that I've never seen any proof that shows these conspiracies have any merit whatsoever.

I think what the Bible tells me to think in regards to government from the NT.  Of course there is more to it.  But God wants us to live peaceful, honest lives.  He also wants all men to be saved and come to know the truth.  So I pray for those in authority.  I can't help but think Paul was talking in Roman times.  Of course this was what God wanted for all times.  I mean ROME? lol that couldn't have been milk and cookies during that time for certain. God in the sum of it all seems to leave the Kings of the earth in honor and throws Satan out like a discarded branch.  For misleading the Nations.  I believe in a strict Bible interpretation of how to think about the government in the NT.  

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This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

 

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

Edited by Potatochip

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I would expect someone that was so enamored by this to spend the time researching it.  I don't believe in the conspiracy so there is no need for me to do your work for you.  If you want to objectively research it, you'll have to read both conspiracy theory websites and sites that describe the science, theory and speculation of how it could have happened.  Then, you can make your own decision from there.  I have looked at both and have made the decision that the impact, fire and how the building was structured would allow the "pancake" type of effect that happened that day.  When one floor collapses down, it's been shown that the weight and impact of that would be a domino effect on the lower floors.  

The burden of proof lies on those that think it's a conspiracy.

I don't know a whole lot about tower 7 but I do know that many regular citizen firefighters felt the building was unstable and the FDNY chief called for the evacuation because of what his firefighters witnessed.  I suppose I have a hard time believing random, normal, citizens who are firefighters were a part of a cover up to collapse Tower 7.  But, if you believe it...it's your right to believe it, I just don't see any proof to make me think it was anything other than what regular firefighters witnessed.

So your Answer to my question One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell? No.

You are obviously a strong believer in all that sort of stuff you are repopulating, I'm sure you would be able to get onto the payroll of some branch of government I won't judge your motives.

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Britain Using PsyOps Domestically to Encourage “Conformity”

http://www.globalresearch.ca/britain-using-psyops-domestically-to-encourage-conformity/5458468

One of the reports from 2011 outlines JTRIG’s tactics, including uploading YouTube videos containing “persuasive communications,” starting Facebook groups and Twitter accounts, and creating fake online personalities and supporters “to discredit, promote distrust, dissuade, deter, delay or disrupt.”

JTRIG also relies on an understanding of psychology which is “critical” to operations. The unit used social media campaigns to encourage and foster “obedience” and “conformity”. Section 3.6 Obedience, says compliance can be achieved by “engendering liking (attractiveness); instilling a sense of scarcity or secrecy; getting compliance to a small request at first.”

Essentially, the U.K. government is using an elite unit of spies to launch psychological operations on “extremists” by creating fake accounts and videos to promote conformity and obedience. However, the practice is not exclusive to the U.K.. PsyOps are used by nations around the world.

The 2002 edition of the Department of Defense Dictionary of Military and Associated Terms defines psychological operations as

integrated employment of the core capabilities of electronic warfare, computer network operations, psychological operations, military deception, and operations security, in concert with specified supporting and related capabilities, to influence, disrupt, corrupt or usurp adversarial human and automated decision making while protecting our own.

The United States military was famously caught using psychological operations in 2011, when Rolling Stone reported that “the U.S. Army illegally ordered a team of soldiers specializing in ‘psychological operations’ to manipulate visiting American senators into providing more troops and funding for the war.”

Indeed, the operations seem crucial to the mission of the United States government (and totalitarian governments around the globe, for that matter). According to the leaked U.S. Special Forces counterinsurgency manual:

Without a doubt, the U.S. government continues to label its own population “extremist” and is focusing its propaganda efforts domestically. The U.S. Special Forces Counterinsurgency Manual—as well as the new Snowden documents—should be required reading for all revolutionaries seeking to understand the tactics of the U.S. government. Only by educating ourselves can we hope to form a united, empowered front against government tyranny.

But Hell, I never Joined this forum to study Antichrist and its tactics.

 

 

 

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Certainly nothing surprising about the stuff proposed in that article. Even the police have done worse: in UK the MET placed undercover officers with environmental campaign groups and these guys stayed with those groups for years, not just observing but, according to the latest allegations, influencing and directing the groups' activities. It's now alleged that the famous anti-McDonalds leaflet that resulted in a huge court case against campaigners in the 1990s was actually written by an undercover officer. Worst of all is that to better infiltrate the groups, officers started intimate relationships with female campaigners, some that lasted years, and they even fathered children by them. One apparently was dividing time up between his real wife and kids (who didn't know about his state-sanctioned adultery) and his undercover partner and children. Then when their bosses at the MET gave the order, these officers abandoned their activist partners and children, fobbing them off with cover stories about them having to flee the country. One woman spent years trying to contact her partner in Spain, occasionally receiving postmarked letters from him. In fact, her partner was just a few miles away behind a desk at the MET, having resumed his normal life (and now with an MBE from the Queen!).

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So your Answer to my question One question for you, can you post us some video clips of steel frame buildings collapsing because of fire so we can see how they fell? No.

You are obviously a strong believer in all that sort of stuff you are repopulating, I'm sure you would be able to get onto the payroll of some branch of government I won't judge your motives.

haha, I am not repopulating anything.  You can continue to believe the stuff written by communists and anarchists if you like.  I choose to believe face value until I see proof otherwise.  You've shown no proof of your stance.

Let me be clear one more time...it hasn't nothing to do with my strong held beliefs in this.  YOU HAVE NEVER PROVIDED ANYTHING CONCRETE TO PROVE YOUR STANCE!!  You are the one that has this strong held belief and won't listen to reason.  I have researched both sides and HAVE FOUND NOTHING to make me sway to conspiracy theories.

Why do you continue to think I am some robot that spews nonsense?  You are the one that won't even objectively look at the other side.

I am shocked at the amount of people on this board that seemingly think conspiracy theories (Theory is the keyword here) are FACT.  Theories are NOT fact, they are theories.

Edited by DennisD

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But Hell, I never Joined this forum to study Antichrist and its tactics.

 

 

 

Well, it sure seems you care more about these conspiracy theories than anything else.  And, I would argue that you are not studying anything...you just post random stuff that you think is true with absoluely no proof.

I've given you my opinion and told you that Christ is eternally more important than my nation.  I don't CARE about conspiracy theories and I don't give them any merit.  So what?  How does that affect you in any way?  Go and believe your conspiracy theories if you want.  Or, provide proof that they are true.

Edited by DennisD

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Well some people think the government are the oppressors.   When in fact they are there for your good.  What people are teaching today about government in contrast with what the Bible says to think about government in the New Testament.  Is false doctrine.  Gods word is eternal.   

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Well, not sure I'd would agree with that completely.  If the government performs the services they are created to perform...then that is one thing.  When they start to delve into the personal life and religious freedom of their citizens...they are being oppressive.  God has certain "responsibilities" for institutions (State, Church and Family).  Once, those insititutions start "getting out of their lane"...that's a problem.

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Indeed, the purpose of government is supposed to be keeping order, preventing chaos, establishing and upholding just laws, punishing lawbreakers, etc.

However, we know that's not how any government actually operates and certainly not in anything akin to a biblical manner. It's impossible to have a truly just and right government if those running the government are not followers of Christ following His guidance.

We also read in Scripture that God uses bad governments and leaders for His purposes too. Recall how the prophet was dumbfounded that God was going to allow a nation more wicked than themselves to conquer them because of their turning from God.

When Paul wrote those words telling us to obey our leaders, to give them respect and honour, to pray for them, he was living under very wicked Roman leadership.

Notice also nowhere in the NT do we read of God advocating Christians rebelling against bad, even wicked government/leaders. We are called to live at peace with them, obeying them unless they order us to directly go against God, and to be willing to suffer the consequences of obeying God rather than men, rejoicing, not complaining or fighting.

The Bible doesn't teach us that all governments/leaders are good. Even Scripture examples bad and wicked government/leaders.

There is nothing unscriptural about recognizing wickedness in a government/leader.

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Thats the problem some people have.  I'm not Mr perfect really I am not its a struggle if you will wrestling.  lol.  God's Word is very clear.  Some want to "rework" the Bible to fit modern day applications. Well ok.   Sodomites and harlot churches reworked Gods word to fit what they want.  Roman Catholics have reworked the Bible to to fit works salvation and Idolatry (we are only praying over and above the representation of the statue).  Also we must change the government.  Because we don't like what God has instituted and everyone  must serve the Pope.  Even heads of state. Government is a separate dispensation in the Bible.  They exist to keep order.  So that we can lead peaceful, honest lives.  It is for our good.  So we can raise Christian children.  Furthermore so we can preach the Gospel.  The good news. False doctrine says this is 2015 things have changed (that's the crux of it).  Gods word does not apply to this situation.  Gods word is eternal.  However not in this case.  False teaching.  Church's now in many cases are a political unit.  Not doing what was intended.  

One day many will discover we are a Holy Nation a people that are no people. Entirely separate from the world.  Can't have one foot in and one foot out (that's the other crux of it).

Edited by Potatochip

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Indeed, the purpose of government is supposed to be keeping order, preventing chaos, establishing and upholding just laws, punishing lawbreakers, etc.

However, we know that's not how any government actually operates and certainly not in anything akin to a biblical manner. It's impossible to have a truly just and right government if those running the government are not followers of Christ following His guidance.

We also read in Scripture that God uses bad governments and leaders for His purposes too. Recall how the prophet was dumbfounded that God was going to allow a nation more wicked than themselves to conquer them because of their turning from God.

When Paul wrote those words telling us to obey our leaders, to give them respect and honour, to pray for them, he was living under very wicked Roman leadership.

Notice also nowhere in the NT do we read of God advocating Christians rebelling against bad, even wicked government/leaders. We are called to live at peace with them, obeying them unless they order us to directly go against God, and to be willing to suffer the consequences of obeying God rather than men, rejoicing, not complaining or fighting.

The Bible doesn't teach us that all governments/leaders are good. Even Scripture examples bad and wicked government/leaders.

There is nothing unscriptural about recognizing wickedness in a government/leader.

I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

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I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

I agree its traveling through and trying to discover whats going on in the Mystery of Iniquity.  Sin.  Its like trying how to figure out how how they manipulate people with television. When what it is in reality is a lot of sin.  Many people love TV.  TV is filled with sin.  We are to stay away from sin.  If people get involved with sin they are traveling through the mystery of iniquity and sin.  Which can lead to an unsound mind.  Which can lead to a sound beating if you are a Christian participating in sin.  So I stay away from sin  God is the author and finisher of my faith.  In God is life.  Sin is death.

Edited by Potatochip

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I don't disagree with anything you've said.  I think it's just as bad to believe nonsense with no proof (consipiracy theories) as it is to blindly follow government and believe they have your best interests at heart.  I don't understand either side with regards to that issue.

Conjecture and opinion are the only thing that has been presented here as "proof" of conspiracy theories.

I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

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Which was my first premise sin is delusional and leads to delusion.  The truth of Gods word is clear.  It's life and peace.  Sin is destruction.  It destroyed Adam and Eves life.  Thats a lot of destruction to mankind.  God is saying obey that IS the good life.  We have salvation of course.  However we are going through this present darkness.  I hate the world.  If sin had not entered the world.  I more than likely would have liked it.  Take heart Jesus has overcome the world.  He gives us peace not like the world however.  Because sin is in the world.  Just a word again on television.  Just a peek is no good.  Talk about viral. Its probably going to get really bad.  I'd chuck it out the window if I had kids.  Truth of it is brothers.  These young people I am going to try to get where they are everywhere I can.  Whats going on is bad stuff young people don't know.  Many times they just go with the culture.  You see a young person please give them a tract or tell them about Salvation.  Anyone under 7 or near if I can figure it out I ask the parent.  

Edited by Potatochip

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Well, not sure I'd would agree with that completely.  If the government performs the services they are created to perform...then that is one thing.  When they start to delve into the personal life and religious freedom of their citizens...they are being oppressive.  God has certain "responsibilities" for institutions (State, Church and Family).  Once, those insititutions start "getting out of their lane"...that's a problem.

lol.

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This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

 

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

have you ever voted in a political election?

Edited by Old-Pilgrim

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I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

Hello John, serious question here, what sort of evidence are you talking about? I would have thought only a handful of folks would know for sure if they did or if they didn't.

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I agree. There is a big difference between pointing out inconsistencies, facts now hidden, oddities and such and asking "why", "what does this mean", "could this mean_____?" and those who simply make stuff up, those who create an elaborate fiction and try to force it into reality.

The moon landings is a good example of this. There is an abundance of evidence the moon landings actually happened. Even so, there are some who insist upon building up fictional accounts of the moon landings being faked. Often they use doctored or phoney photos, or even misleading photos in order to try and bolster their case. Somehow many believe this regardless of the abundance of evidence to the contrary.

For many who believe in the wacky conspiracy theories it's a matter of not actually looking into the matter for themselves. They hear a conspiracy theory and take it as true, never checking into the facts, and then pass it along as truth so others believe it too.

OK, but in one of the videos, the camera panned up fp;;owing the moon lander as it took off.  Who panned the camera and who brought the film back?

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This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

 

I mean that verse gets me lol.   I watch all this going on.  Many are going to go at it tooth and nail over the next Presidential election lol.  I really like you folks.  If you followed a strict interpretation of the Bible.  You would pay attention to the Bible and forget all the other nonsense and really marvel at some of the stuff that's going on.  

 

 

have you ever voted in a political election?

I dunno Pilgrim whats that verse mean to you?

 

Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them; 9And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me. Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve

Edited by Potatochip

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