Calvinist attack!

[DaveW]

Let me preface this by saying that it is NOT directed at the mods, but to general members.

We need to be united against such attacks.

There should be no "discussion" about whether they should be heard or whether it should be discussed.

This is NOT  a calvinist website, and when we have, as currently, a number of calvinists here to obviously push their false doctrine, we need to simply tell them that IF THAT IS THERE PURPOSE, they are not welcome.

We have IFB only forums where we can discuss such doctrines without the militancy that they bring - let's face it, you can't "discuss" with them anyway.

Don't  forget, we do from time to time have organised attacks by false teachers, and we should not just sit back and hope the mods will take care of it. They are people with lives and sometimes get busy. They get to it when they can.

Of course we should be civil, but we absolutely HAVE TO support each other against such attacks.

They want to, are actually aiming to fracture the board.

That is their purpose - then they can hopefully (from their point of view) deceive some, AND stop another non-calvinist forum.

[No Nicolaitans]

 - let's face it, you can't "discuss" with them anyway.

That's the truth...

 

​

[Alan]

DaveW has a justifiable point.

Most of the Calvinists, and other teachers of false doctrines, are not on OnLine Baptist, or other Independent Baptist forums, to learn, or to have good fellowship, or for honest discussions. But they are here to entice weaker brethen in the faith to believe Cavinism. The average Calvinist is not a soul-winner; they are sheep stealers. Acts 21:29 and 30 is still applicable today as it was in Paul's time, "For this I know, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things [incorrect doctrine] to draw away away disciples after them." The false teacher is only after the sheep; truth, nor an honest discussion to find truth, is not what he is after.

Calvinists are not the only false teachers on OnLine Baptist. Other false doctrines promoted by false teachers are: Covenant theology, Replacement Theology, a-millenialist, and folks who think, "soul winning," is irrevelant and have a personal agenda against John 3:16. I consider the above false doctrines to have no place on an independent Baptist church nor on an independent Baptist forum.

As a personal testimony. I pastor a church, that we stated with no help of another missionary, or National helper, on a foreign field. The folks in our church are mostly converts of our passing out tracts, visitation efforts, and solid biblical preaching and teaching. I teach against against all of the aforementioned doctrines and would not allow any of these false teachers to teach in our church.

One of the ploys of false teachers is to spread dissension among good brethren and scatter the sheep and malign those who try and stand up for true doctrine. Proverbs 6:19 is still true today as it was in Solomon's time, "A false witness thst speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

I am of the persuasion that a lot of good brethren who are members of OnLine Baptist, but do not actively discuss the issues, because if  they disagree with one of the false teachers they are humiliated, slandered, and maligned, by the tactics of the false teachers. Therefore, a good many of good brethren do not want to discuss anything in the threads. I do not blame them at all.  

Let me bring out one thought that occured to me awhile back. Have you ever noticed the huge amount of guests who view subjects on OnLine Baptist but do not discuss? I am of the persuasion that a lot of those folks are members of OnLine Baptist but do not want to be noticed and maligned, but they do want to learn about correct doctrine. So, they sit back and just read and will not enter into any discussions. That is my personal opinion. 

[Salyan]

I would truly hate to see these folks go with no discussion at all. A gentle presentation of the truth may influence them toward the right, and it will give all those visitors something to think about. Otherwise, the silent viewers will see only the Calvinist presentation and nothing from our side other than an unwillingness to respond and an attitude that will be viewed as unfriendly - giving them the impression that non-Calvinist IFB have nothing to prove their point and are unfriendly - not exactly the impression we want to give them! Unfortunately, those coming in to push other doctrines are generally met with either 1) hostility, or 2) silence. I'm guilty of that second too - I think a lot of long-time members have simply hashed out the available subjects so many times that we don't feel like hashing it out again!

[Salyan]

Oh, and please remember. While it is great for y'all to remind people what is the accepted doctrine for OB, it is the moderators job to let them know if they are not welcome. Thanks!

[DaveW]

More the point that some here get stuck into the ones trying to defend, and make no comment on the false teaching.

This is what they want - to cause division.

And of course there are those who hold to that position but normally stay quiet here, but they jump in to encourage them.

And yes, it is up to the Mods - which is why I posted the portion of statement to the current crop, and measured comment. And after you had a say.

I want people to guard against the division they want to cause, and we all need to, not just the mods.

[DaveW]

​ And yes - trying to find the appropriate responses to undergird and support the mods, not to overstep.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I am dead set against the Calvinist doctrine.  But I don't speak out much on OB anymore for reasons that Alan has stated.  

 

I read, and observe for the most part.

[Ukulelemike]

I think a reason we may need to address the subject, is because reformed theology is beginning to be taught at some IFB churches, and we should be open to polite discussion on it, if we might turn back some being brought to it unawares.

[Alan]

Salyan,

I, and I think some of the other brethren, see you point. A lot of times I have refrained myself from discussions with these folks as a lot of times it is extemely hard not to wind up in an argument and then contentions arise.

Hopefully, starting with myself, we can try and be a lot more gracious, compassionate, and articulate our biblical stance against these doctrinal errors in a better manner. 

[John81]

I think a reason we may need to address the subject, is because reformed theology is beginning to be taught at some IFB churches, and we should be open to polite discussion on it, if we might turn back some being brought to it unawares.

​There seem to be a growing number of IFBs who like, read and/or quote MacArthur, Sproul and Piper. For some it seems the MacArthur Bible has become a favorite and lately I've heard some suggesting the new Reformation Bible put out by Sproul.

While not a matter of reformed theology, I even know more than a few IFBs who are taking up some things from Charismatics and/or Pentecostals.

We all probably know of some who are taking a hefty mix of modern evangelicals too.

As hard as it may be, as tiresome as it can be, we need to not only be ready to kindly and lovingly present our positions to others but also to those within IFB circles as well.

[DaveW]

But when it becomes obvious that they have come with an agenda to cause division THEN we should close ranks.

This is the issue I am trying to get across.

Of course when someone comes we first try to engage in genuine discussion, but at the moment when someone begins to warn against them, the "warner" gets attacked - and not just because they have handled it wrong. Sometimes someone has done exactly the right thing and been berated by other members here.

This is the division I am talking about.

[MountainChristian]

Is Calvin and Replacement theologies the same thing?

[DaveW]

Is Calvin and Replacement theologies the same thing?

No, not the same, but almost always associated.

It is possible to be a Calvinist and not a replacement theologist, and it is possible to be replacement and not Calvinist, but it is rare to find one without the other.

 

Calvin definitely promoted replacement theology.