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DaveW
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​And yet, it is written clearly in a manner that seems to defy a linear mindset in some cases for a reason: to remind us of God's view on things. We see from a past/present/future, yet God tells us that we are already seated in heavenly places, and we are already glorified. Thus, when we consider such things as "For God so LOVED the world..." since God is outside of time, it is impossible for Him to limit His love for the world in a specific time period, unless He was to lay it out clearly for us. We have no qualification to say, "Well, God loved from this time to this time, but He no longer loves the world" That's ridiculous, else we should also declare that Jesus' sacrifice which is past, was only given for those of the past, not for us. When did His grace end? We would say, it hasn't ended, not until the end. So then, who can we declare God's love ended? God's love is part and parcel with Jesus' salvation and grace-they are inextricably entwined.

​So did He love the world at the time of Noah?  Was the Flood an expression of love?

 

Rom 5:8 says "But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." See, God COMMENDETH.

 This verse talks about true Christians, not satanists.  Read it in context. Nowhere in the Christian Bible does it say that Jesus loves satanists. 

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Furthermore, Romans 10:13 and Acts 2:21 make clear that anyone can call on Jesus and they will be saved with certainty. Unfortunately for your point of view, 1 John 2:2 says that Jesus was the propitiation for the sins of the whole world. That's an all-inclusive term, so you either have to admit that limited atonement is false, or you have to say that since it was past tense He isn't the propitiation for sins now, just back then, which means once again...you're not one of the elect because that was past tense and you're in the present almost 2000 years later.

​Yes, anyone call on Jesus to become born again.  Not everyone will.  None of the verses you cite above contradict the plain and detailed reading of John 3:16-18.

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​Yes, anyone call on Jesus to become born again.  Not everyone will.  None of the verses you cite above contradict the plain and detailed reading of John 3:16-18.

​You completely missed the entire point about your focus on past/present tense being self-defeating. If you're going to play that game, then you have to do it in every instance, otherwise you're just cherry-picking based on what you want to believe. Also, if you're going to hang your belief system on the minutia of grammar, you should probably take more care to understand the grammar. The "loved" word you're unwisely focusing on is in the aorist tense, which is an undefined action that normally occurs in the past and not in the imperfect tense which is a completed action that normally occurs in the past. If God wanted to communicate to us that His love for the world was only during a finite window and came to an end at a particular time, it would be in the imperfect tense, but it's not. Once again, your premise fails. Please study harder.

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​You completely missed the entire point about your focus on past/present tense being self-defeating. If you're going to play that game,

​I'm not playing any games.  Bible says what it says.  We're to read it, believe it, and follow it. 

then you have to do it in every instance, otherwise you're just cherry-picking based on what you want to believe.

Why would you have to do it in every instance?  It's not cherry-picking anything to read the plain and CONTEXTUAL meaning.  Also, what's this "want to believe"?  I'm a true Christian--I don't "want" to believe anything other than what the Bible says.

The "loved" word you're unwisely focusing on is in the aorist tense, which is an undefined action that normally occurs in the past and not in the imperfect tense which is a completed action that normally occurs in the past. If God wanted to communicate to us that His love for the world was only during a finite window and came to an end at a particular time, it would be in the imperfect tense, but it's not. Once again, your premise fails. Please study harder.

I suggest that you study harder.  Do you tell your wife or children that you loved them or that you love them?  Would you tell you wife something along the lines of "honey, I loved you so much that I bought you the best set of pots and pans I could find"?  Would you tell you child, "I loved you so much that I got you the best Nerf gun they had at the toy store?"

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​So did He love the world at the time of Noah?  Was the Flood an expression of love?

 This verse talks about true Christians, not satanists.  Read it in context. Nowhere in the Christian Bible does it say that Jesus loves satanists. 

Romans 6:8 says that Christ died for the ungodly. That's a fairly comprehensive term - and it is not limited. Therefore, it includes satanists. (Although why you've jumped immediately to that particular example is beyond me.)

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​A satanist is anyone who is not a true Christian.  Matthew 12:30.

Bob,

It would be helpful if you refrained from the explicatives our Holy God uses to describe sin and realize your sinful state saved only by Grace. You are simply a "Satanist" saved by Grace.

Be thankful that some former Satanist had mercy on your sorry satanist self and shared the Gospel with you.  Let your thankfulness translate into true compassion for the lost as our Lord has and try harder to conform yourself into His image instead of this prideful (soon to fall hard) holier than thou you portray yourself as.

Our Lord was harsh only with the false religious devils (jury is still out but the evidence is piling up against you to include you with these devils) and never with the common sinners, read your Bible and stop following morons.

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Bob,

It would be helpful if you refrained from the explicatives our Holy God uses to describe sin and realize your sinful state saved only by Grace. You are simply a "Satanist" saved by Grace.

​It would be helpful if you refrained from making ridiculous accusations about me.

Be thankful that some former Satanist had mercy on your sorry satanist self and shared the Gospel with you.  Let your thankfulness translate into true compassion for the lost as our Lord has and try harder to conform yourself into His image instead of this prideful (soon to fall hard) holier than thou you portray yourself as.

More ridiculous accusations from you.  And I was a sinner/satanist.  Then I was Saved by Grace!

 

 

Our Lord was harsh only with the false religious devils (jury is still out but the evidence is piling up against you to include you with these devils) and never with the common sinners, read your Bible and stop following morons.

I don't know whom you follow, but I follow Jesus!

Edited by RevBob
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He bases his "God hates them" on Psalm 5:5, and using John 3:16 to prove that God loves sinners doesn't apply to today (according to him), because the verb "loved" is past tense. This was all covered in this thread --> http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23437-soulwinning-teens-and-young-people/

​Good work No Nicolaitans

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I don't know whom you follow, but I follow Jesus!

​Hardly guy.

Our Lord's example of compassion for the lost is clearly displayed in the Gospels. It appears the Scripture references your revered and esteemed and great muttenheads gave you to quote are Old Testament attempting to justify your self righteous view of sinners just like you.

 

 

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​It would be helpful if you refrained from making ridiculous accusations about me.

More ridiculous accusations from you.  And I was a sinner/satanist.  Then I was Saved by Grace!

 

 

I don't know whom you follow, but I follow Jesus!

​who's the guy on video?

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​So did He love the world at the time of Noah?  Was the Flood an expression of love?

God absolutely DID love the world at the time of Noah, and the flood was a result of that love. How so, you might ask? Because His love for the world saw the only was it could continue, due to the scale of wickedness therein, was to purge the wickedness and all it had effected, so it might continue on. The world had become so rotten, so infected with compromise, that only one person, Noah, found grace in God's eyes, only ONE man still followed Him. Whom He loves, He chasteneth. 

 This verse talks about true Christians, not satanists.  Read it in context. Nowhere in the Christian Bible does it say that Jesus loves satanists. 

This talks about everyone, because when Jesus died, there WERE no Christians. You please read the context: When Jesus died, when He commended His love toward us, therer were no believers. Jesus died for the sin of the WORLD, not just Christians. He came, not to heal the well, but the sick, the sinner, the lost. He came to seek and to save that which was LOST-the world, the sinner. He loved us before we loved Him. .

And by the way, He knew who would be HIs, even while they were Satanists, or idolators, or adulterers, of Mormons or Catholics or whatever Christ-rejecting wickedness they were part of before they God saved, so, yeah, God loves them ALL

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​I'm not playing any games.  Bible says what it says.  We're to read it, believe it, and follow it. 

Why would you have to do it in every instance?  It's not cherry-picking anything to read the plain and CONTEXTUAL meaning.  Also, what's this "want to believe"?  I'm a true Christian--I don't "want" to believe anything other than what the Bible says.

I suggest that you study harder.  Do you tell your wife or children that you loved them or that you love them?  Would you tell you wife something along the lines of "honey, I loved you so much that I bought you the best set of pots and pans I could find"?  Would you tell you child, "I loved you so much that I got you the best Nerf gun they had at the toy store?"

​Again, I think you've completely missed the point. I'm trying to tell you that you're taking these passages out of context and are passing over the plain meaning in favor of your preconceived notions. If you were really taking the context to its fullest extent, you would see Jesus was talking directly to Nicodemus about what it means to be born-again and why it is necessary; not making a grand statement about the timeline of God's love. That one little phrase you're stuck on is a statement about Jesus coming to earth and taking on bodily form, which was an action that occurred in the past respective to when Jesus was speaking. That is why it's a past tense statement. In order to arrive at the conclusion that God had love for the world only in that brief moment in time you have to bring that conclusion to the table before even reading the passage.

What I'm saying is that you're committed to this idea that Jesus hates all non-Christians before you even examine John 3:16 and you're forcing this idea into the text. That's why you have to hang your argument on this past/present tense nonsense. Your bias toward this concept is highlighted by the fact you only apply it in this one instance where it isn't even merited and shows that you don't read the Bible in a consistent and humble fashion. If you did, you could only come to the conclusion that Jesus still hates you personally as I explained in my first post. You have yet to respond to, so I'll ask you directly: in light of Romans 5:8, how can you say that Jesus doesn't hate you?

In response to your last question, it doesn't even make sense, but is a good example of a begging-the-question fallacy. First of all, if you were consistent in the way you applied the language, you'd realize that the statement in John 3:16 is entirely in the 3rd person ("God", "He", "His", "the world"). What you've given in your example statements is a 1st person ("I") statement to a 2nd person entity ("you"). The statements aren't even comparable. A better comparison would be to say something like, "The man loved his son so much that fed him so that he might live another day." That statement doesn't say anything about whether or not the man still loves his son or that the son is still alive at all. In order to say anything about the man's current relationship with his son you have to make an assumption. It doesn't logically make sense to say that the man stopped loving his son after dinner. However, given that the man loved his son enough to provide food, there is no reason to think he would not continue loving his son.

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Rev Bob

Just because the Father "hath loved" Jesus, does that mean He no longer does?  Furthermore, God tells us to "love your enemies". But if you "loved your enemies" while God don't love His, that would make YOU more righteous than God: and that ain't gonna happen. One last thing, the fellow in the video, claims he is no longer a sinner. That, is unbiblical and untruthful, which means he's lying. The last time I checked, the King James Bible calls lying a sin.

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