Comment On Current Debate

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Genesis 22:18 – “And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”  (That is – in and through Abraham’s seed “all the nations of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

Genesis 26:4 – “And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.”  (That is – in and through Isaac’s seed “all the nations of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

Genesis 28:14 – “And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.”  (That is – in and through Jacob’s seed “all the families of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  *Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

 

Just a comment here on Scott's latest post in the debate.

Just in what way are the people mentioned above gonna be a blessing on the "nations" and "families" of the earth?

Because through them God was going to give the gospel of salvation, through their 'flesh', later in time, that we know as Jesus Christ.

That was the purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people.

That was fulfilled. And through that fulfillment salvation has also made of 'two people' one people, Jew and Gentile, (and all the other Israelites that were not part of the tribe of Judah called 'Jews'). All the families were and are now blessed by the obedience of the people of God. And God blessed all Israel as well as all mankind that would believe in the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour.

* As for this statement - it is obviously salvation.

​Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Just a response to your comment.  It might have been of value for you to consider and include the entire context wherein I presented the above statements.  The entire context would have been as follows:

 

[Brother Ian Day]

Scripture makes it very clear that God's blessings are for all the nations of the earth Gen. 22:18, repeated to Isaac Gen. 26:4 & Jacob Gen. 28:14 . . .

[Pastor Scott Markle] 

Actually, Scripture does not indicate this at all.  In your statement you have applied a plural number of “God’s blessings” unto “all the nations of the earth.”  (By this statement, you may even be implying that the plural number of all “God’s blessings” are for and unto “all the nations of the earth.”)  Yet not a single one of the references that you have provided in support of your assertion actually speaks concerning a plural number of “God’s blessings” being administered unto “all the nations of the earth.”  What these passages actually do say is as follows:

Genesis 22:18 – “And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.”  (That is – in and through Abraham’s seed “all the nations of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

Genesis 26:4 – “And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed.”  (That is – in and through Isaac’s seed “all the nations of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

Genesis 28:14 – “And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed.”  (That is – in and through Jacob’s seed “all the families of the earth” would be blessed with some form of blessing from the Lord God.  Yet what that form of blessing would be is not at all specified.  Nor are we even informed that that form of blessing would be plural.)

[emphasis added by Pastor Scott Markle for the purpose of this posting]

Considering and including the entire context wherein I presented the above statements might have revealed the following three truths:

1.  My comments concerning Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 were intended to speak concerning the information that they reveal in and of themselves, not to speak concerning the information that the further revelation of the Old and New Testament Scriptures might provide concerning the form of the blessing from the Lord God by which all the nations of the earth might be blessed in and through Abraham's seed.  (Certainly, I would agree that the form of this blessing is the provision of eternal salvation through the saving work of our Lord Jesus Christ.)

2.  My comments focused upon Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 specifically because they were the three references that Brother Day employed as support for his assertion that "Scripture makes it very clear that God's blessings are for all the nations of the earth."

3.  My comments concerning Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 were specifically presented in order to combat Brother Day's assertion that "Scripture makes it very clear that God's blessings [plural] are for all the nations of the earth." (as per those portions of my comments that are emboldened above.)

So then, Brother "Geneveanpreacher," I would ask a few questions of you:

1.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

2.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 say that a plural number of God's blessings are for all the families and nations of the earth?

 

Just in what way are the people mentioned above gonna be a blessing on the "nations" and "families" of the earth?

Because through them God was going to give the gospel of salvation, through their 'flesh', later in time, that we know as Jesus Christ.

That was the purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people.

That was fulfilled . . . .

One further question -- Could you provide a passage of Scripture which informs us that the specific "purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people" was that "through them God was going to give the gospel of salvation" in and through and by Jesus the Christ?  Please understand -- I am not denying that the Lord God always intended to bring forth the Savior of the Word, His only-begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, out of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the children of Israel?  Rather, I am asking for a passage of Scripture that informs us that such was THE (that is -- the one and only) purpose of the Lord God in choosing the children of Israel as His chosen national-people.

Edited May 30, 2015 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Genevanpreacher]

​Brother "Genevanpreacher,"

Just a response to your comment.  It might have been of value for you to consider and include the entire context wherein I presented the above statements.  The entire context would have been as follows:​

I was not intending to "consider and include the entire context", but chose to comment on a small part of what you said.

That is aloud is it not? I don't need to quote the entire article that you stated to get a point about a section that caught my eye. If someone wants to read the rest of your article they have only to look up the page.

But thank you anyway.

[Genevanpreacher]

 

One further question -- Could you provide a passage of Scripture which informs us that the specific "purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people" was that "through them God was going to give the gospel of salvation" in and through and by Jesus the Christ?  Please understand -- I am not denying that the Lord God always intended to bring forth the Savior of the Word, His only-begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, out of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the children of Israel?  Rather, I am asking for a passage of Scripture that informs us that such was THE (that is -- the one and only) purpose of the Lord God in choosing the children of Israel as His chosen national-people.

 

​First off, I did not say it was the "one and only" purpose, those are your words.

Second, what is your opinion of the meaning of this set of verses? - I am sure you will think I am 'reaching' here, but I disagree -

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

​First off, I did not say it was the "one and only" purpose, those are your words.

​That is correct.  The phrase "one and only" are my words, employed as an explanatory for your usage of the definite article "the" in the phrase, "That was the purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people." (underline added by Pastor Scott Markle)  Brother, is there a difference in meaning between the following two grammatical constructions?

1.  That was the purpose of God . . .
2.  That was a purpose of God . . .

If there is a difference in meaning between the above two grammatical constructions, what is that difference in meaning? 

__________________________________________________________

[Pastor Scott Markle]

One further question -- Could you provide a passage of Scripture which informs us that the specific "purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people" was that "through them God was going to give the gospel of salvation" in and through and by Jesus the Christ?  Please understand -- I am not denying that the Lord God always intended to bring forth the Savior of the Word, His only-begotten Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, out of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and the children of Israel?  Rather, I am asking for a passage of Scripture that informs us that such was THE (that is -- the one and only) purpose of the Lord God in choosing the children of Israel as His chosen national-people.

[Brother Genevanpreacher]

Second, what is your opinion of the meaning of this set of verses? - I am sure you will think I am 'reaching' here, but I disagree -

14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Brother, could you point out which portion of the above two verses that you presented speaks concerning "God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people" (that is -- the children of Israel)?

To me these two verses only appear to speak concerning "the woman" and the "seed" of the woman, who would be a male person that would bruise the serpent's head, even as the serpent would "bruise his heel."

____________________________________________________

So then, Brother "Geneveanpreacher," I would ask a few questions of you:

1.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

2.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 say that a plural number of God's blessings are for all the families and nations of the earth?

Brother, in my above posting I also did ask the above questions of you.  Would you please provide your answer to those questions?

[Genevanpreacher]

 

​*That is correct.  The phrase "one and only" are my words, employed as an explanatory for your usage of the definite article "the" in the phrase, "That was the purpose of God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people." (underline added by Pastor Scott Markle)  Brother, is there a difference in meaning between the following two grammatical constructions?

1.  That was the purpose of God . . .
2.  That was a purpose of God . . .

If there is a difference in meaning between the above two grammatical constructions, what is that difference in meaning? 

__________________________________________________________

**Brother, could you point out which portion of the above two verses that you presented speaks concerning "God's 'peculiar' and 'chosen' people" (that is -- the children of Israel)?

To me these two verses only appear to speak concerning "the woman" and the "seed" of the woman, who would be a male person that would bruise the serpent's head, even as the serpent would "bruise his heel."

____________________________________________________

Brother, in my above posting I also did ask the above questions of you.  Would you please provide your answer to those questions?

​*You are thinking the word "the" with the long 'e'? As if it was the 'one and only' maybe? ('thee' in sound) But I meant it as a regular 'the' not meaning to imply a 'one and only' the.

**Yes, I can explain. On thinking back - I should have said those verses were a foundation for Israel's purpose being to bring salvation to all mankind.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The common teaching is that the seed of the woman is Jesus Christ, and that he will 'bruise' the devils head.

The outcome of that verse is what followed later to fulfill that issue - the Lord formed a relationship with Abraham and his child Isaac, and his grandson Jacob, who of course became Israel, whose sons were the 12 tribes of Israel from which the tribe of Judah Jesus Christ came, who bruised the 'serpents' head by dying on the cross for mankind's sins. Thus fulfilling his statement in the above verse.

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

I think it obvious from reading the bible that God's purpose of saving mankind from sin through his Son Jesus Christ, started at that time in Genesis, and that the OT and the NT work out a continuing flow of that whole redemptive plan. I don't negate the idea of God making a relationship with a certain people and showing them how to live and enjoy living for the Lord. But the whole crux of Christianity pivots on Jesus Christ and not a physical group of people. In my experience with people who focus SO much on Jews, calling them a special people above Christians, is that it takes the focus off Jesus Christ, and puts it on a people that are just as lost as any lost gentile, and casts the truth to the ground, that we are all equal under sin and lost without Jesus Christ. There are no special promises left to give to a lost Israel. And any saved Israelites or Jews are, (ahem) Christians.

Edited May 31, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Genevanpreacher]

   

So then, Brother "Geneveanpreacher," I would ask a few questions of you:

1.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

2.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 say that a plural number of God's blessings are for all the families and nations of the earth?

Brother, in my above posting I also did ask the above questions of you.  Would you please provide your answer to those questions?

​Here's some good verses, from Galatians 3, for what what you were asking above - (and yes, an understanding of all the scriptures does tell one what was said in the above verses)

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham,saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made;and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

​*You are thinking the word "the" with the long 'e'? As if it was the 'one and only' maybe? ('thee' in sound) But I meant it as a regular 'the' not meaning to imply a 'one and only' the.

​So then, Brother "Genevanpreacher," are you willing to acknowledge that the purpose of the Lord God for His "peculiar" and "chosen" people, the children of Israel, in giving "the gospel of salvation" through the Lord Jesus Christ is only one among a number of His purposes for them?

If your answer to the above question is affirmative (which seems to be in accord with your above corrective), then although that particular purpose of the Lord God for them has been fulfilled, would there possibly be others of the Lord God's purposes for them that yet need to be fulfilled?

**Yes, I can explain. On thinking back - I should have said those verses were a foundation for Israel's purpose being to bring salvation to all mankind.

And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

The common teaching is that the seed of the woman is Jesus Christ, and that he will 'bruise' the devils head.

The outcome of that verse is what followed later to fulfill that issue - the Lord formed a relationship with Abraham and his child Isaac, and his grandson Jacob, who of course became Israel, whose sons were the 12 tribes of Israel from which the tribe of Judah Jesus Christ came, who bruised the 'serpents' head by dying on the cross for mankind's sins. Thus fulfilling his statement in the above verse.

4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.

So then, are you simply claiming that Genesis 3:15 was our Lord God's first public declaration that He would send forth a Savior for us lost sinners (the Lord Jesus Christ), and that the further revelation of the Old and New Testament Scriptures informs us concerning the means by which He carried forth this promise through Abraham, Isaac, Jacob-Israel, and the children of Israel?  If this is what you are intending to claim, then we would be in agreement on this point.  In fact, the only reason that I pressed for a supporting passage of Scripture was because I thought that you were making the claim that this was the Lord God's "one and only" purpose for the children of Israel.  If that is not actually what you were intending, then I would withdraw my request for a supporting passage to that effect.

I think it obvious from reading the bible that God's purpose of saving mankind from sin through his Son Jesus Christ, started at that time in Genesis, and that the OT and the NT work out a continuing flow of that whole redemptive plan.

Actually, I myself would contend that our Lord God's purpose "of saving mankind from sin through His Son Jesus Christ" started even before that time, as per the following:

Revelation 13:8 -- "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

1 Peter 1:18-20 -- "Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; but with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you."

I don't negate the idea of God making a relationship with a certain people and showing them how to live and enjoy living for the Lord.

This is good, since then you would have to deny a great majority of God's Holy World.

But the whole crux of Christianity pivots on Jesus Christ and not a physical group of people.

Amen, and AMEN!  On this point we are very much in agreement!

In my experience with people who focus SO much on Jews, calling them a special people above Christians, is that it takes the focus off Jesus Christ, and puts it on a people that are just as lost as any lost gentile, and casts the truth to the ground, that we are all equal under sin and lost without Jesus Christ.

Anyone who might place the children of Israel above Christians would find a significant contention from me.  On the other hand, anyone who might deny from the children of Israel any of the many promises that the Lord God made unto them as a national people group would also find a significant contention from me.  The reason for this is that I believe in the absolute truthfulness and faithfulness of the whole counsel of our Lord God's Holy Word.

Concerning the Biblical truth that an Israelite is "just as lost as any lost Gentile," this truth is not only true for this time of the New Testament church, but has always been true even in the time of the Old Testament.  Human sinners, whether Israelite or Gentile, have always been born as sinfully lost and in need of a Savior.  This is the reason that eternal salvation and eternal justification have always been by God's grace through individual heart-faith.  

There are no special promises left to give to a lost Israel.

With that statement we now come to a point of definite disagreement.  The Lord God has made many national promises unto the children of Israel as a national people group that have not yet been fulfilled.  Because I believe in the absolute truthfulness and faithfulness of every promise in God's Holy Word, I have full assurance of faith that our Lord God's promises unto them will yet be fulfilled just exactly as He promised.

And any saved Israelites or Jews are, (ahem) Christians.

Indeed, this is Biblically true for this time of the New Testament church, as per such a passage as Ephesians 2:11-22.  However, this Biblical truth does not deny from the children of Israel the national promises that the Lord God has made unto them as a national people group.

______________________________________________________________

[Pastor Scott Markle]

So then, Brother "Geneveanpreacher," I would ask a few questions of you:

1.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

2.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 say that a plural number of God's blessings are for all the families and nations of the earth?

Brother, in my above posting I also did ask the above questions of you.  Would you please provide your answer to those questions?

[Brother "Genevanpreacher"]

Here's some good verses, from Galatians 3, for what what you were asking above - (and yes, an understanding of all the scriptures does tell one what was said in the above verses)

No, I do not believe that Galatians 3:7-26 provides an appropriate answer to my above questions; and I do not believe so for the following reasons:

1.  Because in my above questions I very clearly specified the three passages about which I was specifically asking the questions, those being Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.
2.  Because in both of the questions in my point #1 above, I specifically included the phrase, "in and of themselves," which excludes any reference to any other passage(s).
3.  Because in specifying the passages about which I was asking my questions, I did not at all include any reference to Galatians 3:7-26.

So then, Brother "Genevanpreacher," for the third time I would ask -- Would you please provide your answer to those questions that I asked about Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14?

Edited June 3, 2015 by Pastor Scott Markle

[Genevanpreacher]

 

No, I do not believe that Galatians 3:7-26 provides an appropriate answer to my above questions; and I do not believe so for the following reasons:

1.  Because in my above questions I very clearly specified the three passages about which I was specifically asking the questions, those being Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.
2.  Because in both of the questions in my point #1 above, I specifically included the phrase, "in and of themselves," which excludes any reference to any other passage(s).
3.  Because in specifying the passages about which I was asking my questions, I did not at all include any reference to Galatians 3:7-26.

So then, Brother "Genevanpreacher," for the third time I would ask -- Would you please provide your answer to those questions that I asked about Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14?​

Maybe since Paul, (who by the way wrote Galatians), understood those verses to mean as per the following:

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,

preached before the gospel unto Abraham,saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Why can't you accept that?

[And since when will you not accept scripture as an answer, especially when it mentions the exact words in the questioned verses?]

**And, your plural question? I was not interested in that at all when you were discussing it before and I have none still. I was interested in the verses you commented on in my previous post. Thank you anyway, but I think you were questioning Covenanter, and I think he can answer for himself.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Genevanpreacher]

 

1. The Lord God has made many national promises unto the children of Israel as a national people group that have not yet been fulfilled.  

2. Because I believe in the absolute truthfulness and faithfulness of every promise in God's Holy Word, I have full assurance of faith that our Lord God's promises unto them will yet be fulfilled just exactly as He promised.

​1. In your opinion.

2. And I do not? Good luck with that. 

Edited June 3, 2015 by Genevanpreacher

[Alan]

The interpretation of Daniel 9:24-27 taught forth by Pastor Markle has been an scriptually correct interpretation. Pastor Markle is entirely correct when he said that, and I quote, "The Lord God has made many national promises unto the children of Israel as a national people group that have not yet been fulfilled."

The aforementioned quote by Pastor Markle is not an opinon by Pastor Markle; it is doctrinal truth. To regulate that doctrinal truth as just an opinion is inappropriate.

[Pastor Scott Markle]

Brother "Genevanpreacher," 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

​1. The Lord God has made many national promises unto the children of Israel as a national people group that have not yet been fulfilled.  (emphasis added by Brother "Genevanpreacher")

[Brother "Geneveanpreacher"]

1. In your opinion.

Indeed, I would contend that my "opinion" is in accord with a straightforward reading of the Old Testament prophets.  So then, do you hold to a contrary "opinion"?

[Pastor Scott Markle]

2. Because I believe in the absolute truthfulness and faithfulness of every promise in God's Holy Word, I have full assurance of faith that our Lord God's promises unto them will yet be fulfilled just exactly as He promised.  (underline added by Brother "Genevanpreacher")

[Brother "Genevanpreacher"]

2. And I do not? Good luck with that. 

I was simply providing a report and reason for my position.  I do not believe that I delivered any accusation against you.

______________________________________________________________________________

[Pastor Scott Markle]

No, I do not believe that Galatians 3:7-26 provides an appropriate answer to my above questions; and I do not believe so for the following reasons:

1.  Because in my above questions I very clearly specified the three passages about which I was specifically asking the questions, those being Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.
2.  Because in both of the questions in my point #1 above, I specifically included the phrase, "in and of themselves," which excludes any reference to any other passage(s).
3.  Because in specifying the passages about which I was asking my questions, I did not at all include any reference to Galatians 3:7-26.

So then, Brother "Genevanpreacher," for the third time I would ask -- Would you please provide your answer to those questions that I asked about Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14?​

[Brother "Genevanpreacher"]

Maybe since Paul, (who by the way wrote Galatians), understood those verses to mean as per the following:

8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith,

preached before the gospel unto Abraham,saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Why can't you accept that?

Oh, I can accept that the apostle Paul wrote Galatians 3:8 under the very inspiration of God the Holy Spirit Himself.  I can further accept that Galatians 3:8 provides a Holy Spirit-inspired, New Testament commentary and explanation for the passages in Genesis.  However, I cannot accept that a reference to Galatians 3:8 answers my specific question because my specific question was a question about the specific information that is found in the specific sentences that are recorded in the specific references of Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.

However, I am able to approach this matter from another direction.  So then, let me ask you a question about Galatians 3:8 -- 

1.  Does Galatian 3:8 specify the form of blessing by which all the families of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham? 
2.  If so, what does it specify that the from of this blessing would be?

[And since when will you not accept scripture as an answer, especially when it mentions the exact words in the questioned verses?]

To which question I am moved to ask a return question -- Since when are you unable to understand the meaning of the phrase, "in and of themselves"?

[Covenanter]

All this is painful to watch.

You ask Geneva, "To which question I am moved to ask a return question -- Since when are you unable to understand the meaning of the phrase, "in and of themselves"?" 

God's revelation is progressive - He did not stop at Gen. 1:1 , nor did he give comprehensive stand-alone promises to Abram in Gen. 12:1-3 or to Abraham & the other Patriarchs. How much Abram understood may be questioned in the light of his subsequent behaviour, but he obeyed in faith. Hebrews 12 tells us more about the extent of their understanding. The detail is not given in the cited promises, but that does not invalidate them. We see them working out as sacred history progresses. Your question, in & of itself, does not invalidate Paul quoting the promise as a Gospel  promise. 

What we do see is the covenant promise to Abraham was to be confirmed by the Messiah, as the revelation to Daniel shows, and to be confirmed within 7 years of Jesus' baptism. The 70 weeks run to about AD 33. Messiah has finished his saving work at Calvary, risen from the dead & ascended to his heavenly throne. The Gospel of free & full forgiveness for repentant sinners was preached in Jesus' name in the power of the Holy Spirit. Many thousands of Israel did repent & believe, & were baptised & added to the church. Acts 2. The unbelief of others certainly cannot invalidate the faith of those who did believe. 

The promises to the Patriarchs, & to Israel as a people were being fulfilled in, by & through the Lord Jesus Christ for those who believed. Sadly there were other promises for Israel should they fail to believe:

Acts 2:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. 
22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

When the Lord Jesus Christ leaves heaven for the resurrection, all the promises of the old covenant Scriptures will indeed be gloriously & perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE for all those of all nations (including Israel!) who believe in the Lord Jesus for salvation. Meanwhile NOW is the day of salvation... 2 Cor. 6:2 

I ask - where in the NT are the earthly, physical kingdom & temple promises, complete with animal sacrifices for sin,  to Israel as a nation, apart from other people restated? Listen to John's vision of heaven:

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

 

[DaveW]

Painful is watching you make a mockery of the actual debate, and then attacking  Brother Scott here.

 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

All this is painful to watch.

You ask Geneva, "To which question I am moved to ask a return question -- Since when are you unable to understand the meaning of the phrase, "in and of themselves"?" 

Indeed, I did, specifically in relation to my following two questions:

1.  Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?
2.  If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

Giving an answer to these questions from some other passage of Scripture, no matter how valid that answer may be in relation to Biblical doctrine, does not actually answer the questions themselves as asked concerning Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves.

God's revelation is progressive - He did not stop at Gen. 1:1 , nor did he give comprehensive stand-alone promises to Abram in Gen. 12:1-3 or to Abraham & the other Patriarchs. 

Indeed, with this Biblical truth we are fully agreed.  However, my questions were not about all of the progressive revelation of God throughout Scripture.  My questions were not about the full doctrinal teaching of Scripture on the matter.  If my questions had been such, then bringing Galatians 3:8 into the matter would have been very appropriate and very important.  Rather, my questions were about the specific statements of specific verses, those being Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.

In fact, my questions were based upon a statement that you yourself made in the discussion-debate thread, as follows:

Scripture makes it very clear that God's blessings are for all the nations of the earth Gen. 22:18, repeated to Isaac Gen. 26:4 & Jacob Gen. 28:14 . . .

In this statement you make an assertion, and then you support that assertion only with the following three passages -- Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.  Even so, I responded with questions only (as per the phrase, "in and of themselves") about the only three passages that you yourself presented in support of your assertion, that is -- Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14.

The detail is not given in the cited promises, but that does not invalidate them. 

And with this statement you have now actually answered my questions.  

My questions:  (1) Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  (2) If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be?

Your answer:  "The detail is not given in the cited promises . . . ."

Thank you for finally providing the answer that could have been presented so much sooner and so much easier, without a whole series of "back and forth."

The detail is not given in the cited promises, but that does not invalidate them. We see them working out as sacred history progresses. Your question, in & of itself, does not invalidate Paul quoting the promise as a Gospel  promise. 

We are absolutely agreed herein, and nothing in my questions were ever intended to "invalidate" the apostle Paul's Holy Spirit-inspired commentary and explanation of the promise (that is -- the promise that in Abraham all the nations of the world would be blessed) as a Gospel promise.  In fact, I am personally very thankful for that gospel promise; for without it I a Gentile would never have had an opportunity for eternal salvation through faith in my Savior Jesus the Christ.

____________________________________________________________

I ask - where in the NT are the earthly, physical kingdom & temple promises, complete with animal sacrifices for sin,  to Israel as a nation, apart from other people restated?

Do these promises of the Lord God (removing your phrase, "complete with animal sacrifices for sin") need to be restated in the New Testament Scriptures in order to remain the absolutely truthful and faithful Word of God unto the children of Israel?  Did the Lord God ever revoke these promises (again removing your phrase, "complete with animal sacrifices for sin") from the children of Israel?

[Covenanter]

I apologise for contributing to the side discussion in this thread. I'm happy to leave the comments to others & stay with the main debate. @BroMatt I must also apologise for faulty formatting as I only have a few of the format options available. (The first 9.) 

Bro Scott, you do make understanding difficult. When you ask a question repeatedly to which the answer is obvious - (1) Do Genesis 22:18; 26:4; 28:14 in and of themselves specify the form of blessing by which all the families and nations of the earth would be blessed in and through Abraham's seed?  (2) If so, what do they in and of themselves specify that the form of this blessing would be? - then it is natural to wonder what is behind your question. Paul clearly knew by inspiration the significance of the promise, & gave his answer in Galatians, as Geneva said. The discussion is not advanced by such questions.

Especially when the question ignores the answer already given & you only partially quote, as below:

I wrote: 

"When the Lord Jesus Christ leaves heaven for the resurrection, all the promises of the old covenant Scriptures will indeed be gloriously & perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE for all those of all nations (including Israel!) who believe in the Lord Jesus for salvation. Meanwhile NOW is the day of salvation... 2 Cor. 6:2 

I ask - where in the NT are the earthly, physical kingdom & temple promises, complete with animal sacrifices for sin,  to Israel as a nation, apart from other people restated? Listen to John's vision of heaven:

Rev. 5:9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth."

You ignore the statement that precedes the question you quote - which gives the answer. You also ignore the Scriptures quoted.

Bro Scott quoting Ian:  I ask - where in the NT are the earthly, physical kingdom & temple promises, complete with animal sacrifices for sin,  to Israel as a nation, apart from other people restated?

Bro Scott - Do these promises of the Lord God (removing your phrase, "complete with animal sacrifices for sin") need to be restated in the New Testament Scriptures in order to remain the absolutely truthful and faithful Word of God unto the children of Israel?  Did the Lord God ever revoke these promises (again removing your phrase, "complete with animal sacrifices for sin") from the children of Israel?

Yes, they do need to be restated if they relate to a future millennium that includes godless people who join in a Satan-led rebellion against  Christ, his saints & the beloved city, prior to the passing away of the first H&E by fire & the establishment of the NH&NE. Especially as the OT promises include Ezekiel's temple with its animal sacrifices for sin. (By removing the offending phrase it seems you acknowledge that Ezekiel's temple & other sacrifice prophecies are typical of Jesus perfect sacrifice.) 

However, they do not need to be restated if Jesus returns for resurrection & judgement, when he will cast out of his Kingdom all things that offend. Mat. 13:36-43 Then the glorious NH&NE follows Jesus' coming, with all the OT & NT promises & prophecies perfectly fulfilled.

Note Peter's sermon in Acts 3:18-26 which I have referred to in the debate. That restates Moses' prophecy of Messiah.