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John81

Tragedy

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John, you and your family are on my mind throughout the day. I talk with my wife about what I read here, and we are both very concerned about you, and pray for you. As to the thought that I quoted above, I do not believe it would help. I have seen social workers go after "families" that were never married. If the marriage license was their only key, those without one would be free from attack. Just keep trusting in the Lord and doing your best to follow him, and he will lead you through.


Very true but alot of times those same families are getting help from the govt some way Welfare, medical help etc. Which still give them the right to look in on you. My wife and I for example after each baby was born had a lady try and come in from the county to check on things because we were on WIC. Anytime you are getting help from the state or whatever they like to stcik their nose in. Anyway that is all I will say on the matter I do not want to divert attention away from the purpose of this thread. God bless. :)

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Very true but alot of times those same families are getting help from the govt some way Welfare, medical help etc. Which still give them the right to look in on you. My wife and I for example after each baby was born had a lady try and come in from the county to check on things because we were on WIC. Anytime you are getting help from the state or whatever they like to stcik their nose in. Anyway that is all I will say on the matter I do not want to divert attention away from the purpose of this thread. God bless. :)


I see what you are saying.. it's like signing a contract to the gov't. But it works the same way with SSN too.

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Just saw this thread - I am and will be praying. 2nd daughter ran away with the help of a lesbian art teacher and MY OWN SISTER. Claimed emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. Cleared in criminal investigative process, hauled to civil court for state custody :loco . Exposed HRS in perjury 3 times in court, showed state law citing spanking to be legal, embarrassed HRS experts in academic areas (they tried to claim my wife was not qualified to teach our daughter (yet she tested 2nd yr college level @ 16 yrs old)), and still had case workers treat us as if our daughter was sweet, innocent, and honest. Case workers DO NOT care about legality, only "socialogical correctness". Check the statutes in your state concerning corporal punishment (especially spanking) and home schooling. Don't trust the public "experts", check the state statutes. If you have difficulty doing this, let me know what state you are in and I will do so for you. Feel free @ anytime to contact me here or via PM or e-mail.

Again ---- am praying.

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Follow up statement. 2 Cor 1:4 Trust and turn to the God of all comfort. On the other side He will enable you (regardless of the final outcome) to later comfort someone in the same (or similar) trouble.

Re: your wife. You said basically that some thing she should have believed and headed you in that may have resulted in a different outcome. Please don't allow Satan to tempt you to say "I told you" or "If you'd have listened" - she needs you.

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Thank you OLD fashioned !

Yes, we are experiencing what you've spoke of. Spanking is legal in this state, followed by a bunch of "buts" that have been added to it. Part of the problem is our son has a small (the size of a quarter or smaller) scar on his rear from a bike accident he had when he was young. The scrape would have healed fine except he began picking at the scab. Once we finally got him to stop picking at it, the boo-boo healed up fine; except it left a scar where had picked at the scab. Oh, and yes we doctored the boo-boo with neosporin.

Anyway, he told them the scar was from being spanked too much. When I was first asked about this I told them what the scar was from and I told them they could ask my wife because she was there when the accident happened (they had my wife and i separated at that time). The lead social worker at that time said that he had already talked to my wife and she told him the same thing I did. So, we have two adults (the parents) who say the same thing even though they are separated and at the time of separation would have had no idea they might be questioned on this, and we have a child who says differently so naturally :roll they believe the child. The social worker never outright called me or my wife liars, but just kept saying, I believe him.

Of course, without one shred of evidence (nothing physical, nothing from those they interviewed), the social workers have claimed me to be guitly of slapping, kicking, choking and forcing him to do ALL the work around the house.

As you say, they care not about legality. Of course there are no criminal charges because there is absolutely nothing the could go to court with.

My wife plainly told them I've never abused her in any way and that I've never abused the children. Our youngest son told them I've never hit/kicked (or any such thing) him or his brother. I've told them. All the people they talked to told the they have never seen me being violent towards my children and have never seen any signs of abuse.

Means nothing. The child's story trumps the word of his BOTH his parents, his younger brother, and all others they interviewed.

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You have to watch anyone that is in an investigation or enforcement position as one of their favorite tricks for their "fishing expeditions" is that they will indicate they know something they don't, or that someone else may have something they didn't, or they will do the "I believe him" routine......all in an attempt to catch a fish or shake an apple from the tree. It makes the subject of the investigation nervous and frustrated as can be; but as you tell the truth and are consistent in telling the truth they should start to lesson the interrogation techniques; I pray!

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Kind of like an over zealous prosecutor who files charges even though he does not have the proper evidence, just a hunch, and as we know our hunches can be 100% wrong.

There be these type people in all walks of life.

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Just saw this thread - I am and will be praying. 2nd daughter ran away with the help of a lesbian art teacher and MY OWN SISTER. Claimed emotional, physical, and sexual abuse. Cleared in criminal investigative process, hauled to civil court for state custody :loco . Exposed HRS in perjury 3 times in court, showed state law citing spanking to be legal, embarrassed HRS experts in academic areas (they tried to claim my wife was not qualified to teach our daughter (yet she tested 2nd yr college level @ 16 yrs old)), and still had case workers treat us as if our daughter was sweet, innocent, and honest. Case workers DO NOT care about legality, only "socialogical correctness". Check the statutes in your state concerning corporal punishment (especially spanking) and home schooling. Don't trust the public "experts", check the state statutes. If you have difficulty doing this, let me know what state you are in and I will do so for you. Feel free @ anytime to contact me here or via PM or e-mail.

Again ---- am praying.



It just appears to me that the system has been working for the children and against the parents and family...for so long. I like to call it "Dr. Phil Mentality." However, it all started years ago with Dr. Spock. Then, they like to use the "Freudian" method on our children. :puzzled: This pyscho mumbo-jumbo stuff is too much. :loco I remember when I worked in the Cleveland Schools and 696-KIDS was very popular. I have said this before on OB...but, what about 696-RENT (parents)?

You know you are still very much in my prayers, John...as well as Tim, your wife, and your other son. :pray God bless you. :Bible:

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Oh man my son has itchy skin and does the same thing picking scabs...same area....

That's too bad that the is so bold as to lie, its almost as if he WANTS to be taken away....

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Oh man my son has itchy skin and does the same thing picking scabs...same area....

That's too bad that the is so bold as to lie, its almost as if he WANTS to be taken away....


I think he does, which is why he ran away. If he want it so bad, maybe that recovery school isn't so bad afterall.

but anyway, I think it is too late for him to tell the truth because they will think you made him tell them that.

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I can't understand why your son would lie.. does he know that he is being an inch away of never seeing his parents again?


Sadly, our son is a habitual liar and to make matters worse, he's a very good liar. I know him better than any other person on the planet and he can still still fool me at times. He's such a good liar that even when I know 100% sure he did something he can look me in the eye and tell me he didn't so effectively that if I didn't know for certain he did, I would think he was telling the truth.

Anytime he does something wrong, something he shouldn't do, or he thinks he might get in trouble for something he immediately and without hesitation instantly lies; EVERY time.

I asked him a week or so ago about why he told them that stuff when the police found him after he ran away. He just said they started asking him questions about stuff like that so he just started saying stuff. In other words, they planted these ideas in his head and he thought that seemed like something he could get some use out of to keep himself out of trouble so the lies spewed forth.

He NEVER considers the consequences and I don't think he completely believes they can or will take him away; although I do think he believes it more now after his "hit list" incident, but in the back of his head I think he still believes Mom will bail him out of his troubles or Dad won't let anything like that happen...even though I've explained to him that neither his mother or I could stop them if he gives them reason to take him.

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Sadly' date=' our son is a habitual liar and to make matters worse, he's a very good liar. I know him better than any other person on the planet and he can still still fool me at times. He's such a good liar that even when I know 100% sure he did something he can look me in the eye and tell me he didn't so effectively that if I didn't know for certain he did, I would think he was telling the truth. [/quote']


Yes...you know that this is pathological. As he grows older he will begin to believe those lies are truth...and the pathological will get far worse if untreated. I have taught many children like this, John. :sad Usually, the eyes tell everything...but sometimes it is very hard to tell b/c these children get good at it.

My hope and prayer for you is the Christian home. I am praying on this for everyone one involved. :pray This is heartbreaking. Also, you must know that it is of no doing of you or your wife. I remembered learning about this in "Abnormal Psychology" in college. Again, I pray that it gets treated in a Christ-like environment.

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Ah, John, what a horrible thing to be experiencing. Just to let you know - those people know absolutely for certain that this little sore didn't come from spanking. If it were a result of spanking, it wouldn't be so small, and there would be other scars. They are just trying to trick you into confessing something, like trc said, thinking that if you believe you're caught you'll break.

They are simply trying to break down your resolve - all three of you. Hang in there.

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Ah, John, what a horrible thing to be experiencing. Just to let you know - those people know absolutely for certain that this little sore didn't come from spanking. If it were a result of spanking, it wouldn't be so small, and there would be other scars. They are just trying to trick you into confessing something, like trc said, thinking that if you believe you're caught you'll break.

They are simply trying to break down your resolve - all three of you. Hang in there.



:amen::goodpost: LuAnne!

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True, I forgot about that! Drs are trained to compare your description of an injury to what the injury looks like....for instance multiple bruises across a child's back does not match with "he fell off the couch". So it is true, they should be able to tell what is going on with a wound. They are definitely intimidating you. Can you call a lawyer?

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True' date=' I forgot about that! Drs are trained to compare your description of an injury to what the injury looks like....for instance multiple bruises across a child's back does not match with "he fell off the couch". So it is true, they should be able to tell what is going on with a wound. They are definitely intimidating you. Can you call a lawyer?[/quote']


Do we have a Christian attorney on OB? LOL.

I would suggest trying to find a Christian attorney, John. Maybe, ask around in your church? :smile

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While I'm thinking about it --- double check in regards to the state your are in, but, in the states that I am familiar with (Fl, Ga, Al, Tn, Ar, Ms, Mo, and Ks) if the child HAS NOT been adjudicated as ward of the state BY THE COURTS awarding guardianship to the state (which yours has not or he would no longer be allowed to stay home) then his transfer to other care (Christian home, etc) is your legal perogitive.

I mention this because if the home is in another state, CFS (CPS, HRS, HEW, DFS, etc [same people]) may try to convince (threaten, intimidate) you that you cannot do this OR that you being uncooperative. Once the child is out of state, CFS cannot do another thing legally and will be force to close the case. Personally been down this road.

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Myself and our pastor believe he already believes his lies are true in his own mind. We (wife and I) had hoped he would grow out of this as he got older but he's only gotten worse. He's such a good liar now that his eyes match his lie. Where I used to be able to "see" the lie in his eye, that's no longer possible at all.

So far, things look good for the Christian Home but it will still take several weeks to find out for sure and get him placed there if we and they agree to everything. This place is Christ-centered, with their main focus being on leading the children to Christ and discipling them.

I've conducted a phone interview with them and they are sending us some paperwork. Sometime in the next few/several weeks we'll be driving there for a face-to-face interview and a tour of the place. Afterwards, if we still wish to proceed, we will have to drive there to attend their 10 o'clock Sunday church services. If we still wish to proceed, we can then get him placed there; God willing.

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A lawyer, at this time, is not possible because we simply have no money for such. There are no lawyers in our church and even in this rural area, the good lawyers are very expensive.

The social workers don't like the idea of us sending him to the Christian Home, but they have no legal right (unless they would try to conjure something) to prevent us from sending him there. They've tried to make us think it's a bad idea and they've tried to plant things in his mind to think it's bad, but my wife and I are mature enough not to listen to them and our son is actually excited about going there now so he's not paying attention to them either.

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A lawyer, at this time, is not possible because we simply have no money for such. There are no lawyers in our church and even in this rural area, the good lawyers are very expensive.

The social workers don't like the idea of us sending him to the Christian Home, but they have no legal right (unless they would try to conjure something) to prevent us from sending him there. They've tried to make us think it's a bad idea and they've tried to plant things in his mind to think it's bad, but my wife and I are mature enough not to listen to them and our son is actually excited about going there now so he's not paying attention to them either.


John, it is a good sign that your son is at least excited about going there now. At least he won't be going kicking and screaming. While he probably is thinking it will be a big adventure, it will be much tougher than he thinks and those situations have a way of working themselves into their head and making them think. I believe God can work in his heart there. I am praying for your family.

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They are aware of much of the situation through our phone interview. We will be going into more detail about things in the face-to-face interview.

One of the things he's excited about is that high school age students must work while there and the money they earn is mostly placed into a savings account which they will receive when they complete the program. He likes the idea of having a job and having money to buy a car when he finishes. He's also considering trying to get into sports there, possibly basketball.

It will take some getting used to, for him certainly, but for us as well. My wife and I discussed this some more today and while we are sad at the thought of him being away from home we both believe this place could really help him and be a blessing.

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Well if he is excited about going, that is good...and then once he is there, hopefully he will experience homesickness and realize what a great mistake he's made. Most of all, hopefully he will be saved. Maybe he just needs to see that the "crazy stuff" his parents are trying to teach him aren't unique, but are truth.
:pray

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Well if he is excited about going, that is good...and then once he is there, hopefully he will experience homesickness and realize what a great mistake he's made. Most of all, hopefully he will be saved. Maybe he just needs to see that the "crazy stuff" his parents are trying to teach him aren't unique, but are truth.
:pray


:amen: Thank you Suzy!

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