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John81

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Praying John. Im soo sorry brother. Having worked around this system for over 20 years, i have seen the same thing over and over.

I have investigated homes where the kids need removed for safety and mom and dad need to be in jail. Nothing happened, (accept for waht law enforcement could do) but the kids were left in th wind so to speak.

Then i have investigated homes where there is a problem with the child but the parents are good folks and doing thier best. They are either run through the ringer or not helped at all. (seemingly your case)

The whole system is getting worse. The CLA needs to drop the hammer on these folks and get thier attention.

I feel so helpless. But our God is a mighty God and has control of all. Its easy for me to say, but look for the lesson in this from God. I may be simply to build your faith, or to help someone in the future that goes through it. i dont know. Praying for you.

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Their much like a psychiatrist, think they can spend a few minutes talking with some one and know everything about that person.

The psychiatrists are the one who say a murdered and rapist has been cured and recommend them to be released where they can murder and rape again.

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John,

I continue to pray for you.

You are right, the episode with the note having threatening language, resulting in police involvement and expulsion from school is very serious and to be addressed as such and should not be taken lightly by anyone (including the social workers).

Concerning the other behavior cited by your wife to the social workers, I must say that the example she gave (in my opinion) really is to be expected. That does not mean that Tim shouldn't be trained and corrected; but I don't see that particular behavior as anything other than youth and immaturity. Remember, the mind can only absorb what the seat can stand. That was our saying back when we home schooled our children. You can fight it all you want, but children have a lot of pent up energy and they will always find themselves going off task (more so the younger they are) just because all that energy is racing through their mind and bodies. They want to be moving, exploring, experiencing and such. It is not natural for children (not even most adults) to attend school for 6 to 7 hours and then want to sit another 2 or 3 hours to do more studying and they are going to push back concerning it. It is not a personal assault upon you as parents (even though it really seems like it sometimes) and your authority.

This particular behavior to me is aggravating and frustrating when you are the parent and in the middle of trying to train and get your child to "mind" you; but now sitting on this end of my life and having all these grand children and observing them with their parents and remembering how things were when they were little..................that really is the little stuff and not nearly as abnormal or rebellious as you might think.

I remember as the boys started to get older they wanted to wear their hair a little longer and one wanted his ear pierced. We fought them on it and then an older Christian couple reminded us that our children today are resisting the devil's temptations to sin by drugs, alcohol, fighting in school, fornication and the such and the least of our worries should be them having one inch more hair on their head. As far as the ear ring though..........my wife hated the idea of him getting one and I knew if we didn't even hear him out it would be a huge battle. I knew his request was driving my wife crazy and I also knew he was asking because it was pushing her buttons and that he probably wouldn't really want one and if he did he wouldn't have the patience in the long run to properly take care of it. So I (being the type who doesn't like to give someone else the satisfaction of pushing my buttons) told him he could pierce his ear as long as he did it the same way as his mother had done her's when she was a young woman. Much to my chagrin, he did! His sister got a potato, iced his ear until it was numb, placed the potato behind the ear, and put a large sewing needle through his ear! Needless to say the whole experience wasn't nearly as "cool" as he had envisioned. The ear ring was gone in one week never to return. As far as his hair, he went into the US Military and that's never been an issue either.

I said all of that to say, we had to learn to pick our battles and determine what was "childish" behavior and what was rebellion and then correct accordingly. If you think about it, this is how God deals with, corrects and disciplines we adults as well. He doesn't always come down on us like a "ton of bricks" for every thing that we do that is contrary to His Word; and he corrects differently for different infractions and circumstances.

Sorry, I got a little chatty........but I was praying for you and your family and just started to type down some thoughts as I remembered the challenges we had with our children.

I will continue to pray for you all,

TRC

P.S. Our youngest son's name is Timothy!

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What John was trying to say is that he can't even train and correct his son. He's been saying that in the beginning. That nothing seem to be working. I mean do you want your child to fail school because he too rebellious?

anyway, the social workers had no rights to tell him what school his son can go. If John fear for his and his family life because he can't trust his son, he have every rights to send him to a recovery program so he can regain that trust again.

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trc I appreciate your post, but I think John's situation is more extreme than you realize...we have been following this for awhile now, as every so often he would mention problems with his son. There is also a spiritual battle going on here too.

Also should mention that there are lots of things to say "yes" to our children...and at least in my family, having longer hair or piercing their ears (even the homemade kind LOL that was kinda funny) will never be an option for my kids.

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trc I appreciate your post, but I think John's situation is more extreme than you realize...we have been following this for awhile now, as every so often he would mention problems with his son. There is also a spiritual battle going on here too.

Also should mention that there are lots of things to say "yes" to our children...and at least in my family, having longer hair or piercing their ears (even the homemade kind LOL that was kinda funny) will never be an option for my kids.


Totally understood. I hope my post didn't come across as being judgmental or making light of the situation. I did not mean it that way, I was just sharing some perspective as I was praying and thinking back concerning such circumstances. And yes, of course, the parents are the final authority in rearing their children, absolutely.

P.S. Trust me, I didn't want an ear ring for our son anymore than the wife did..........I just used a different tactic for helping him learn a lesson, rather than the frontal assault.

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Sounds similar to the ones who let their kid try a cigarette at a young age...so they get sick...and ditch the idea forever. LOL. Effective, but I'm sure often backfires and then you have a bigger mess than you started with.

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Sounds similar to the ones who let their kid try a cigarette at a young age...so they get sick...and ditch the idea forever. LOL. Effective' date=' but I'm sure often backfires and then you have a bigger mess than you started with.[/quote']

Actually, I caught him smoking as a teenager and made him smoke an entire pack of camel no filters in one sitting in front of his mother and I. He was totally embarrassed, turned green, vomited, took a hot shower, went to bed and no longer smokes cigarettes. He is married and has two children of his own and occasionally comments about the difficulties of being a parent and how smart he now thinks his mom and I are (we used to be so dumb.....lol).

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John, my heart breaks for your family. May God grant you parents wisdom and may He fight for you against the gov't who has no business in your family. Contact the CLA. They specialize in defending Christian families against corrupt gov't and corrupt systems.

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Just wondering... are the social workers there like here? 80% of them dont have kids and half arnt married' date=' yet they seem to know everything about raising kids, (or they think they do). :loco[/quote']

No kidding...usually liberal women who have a couple dogs....right? LOL....

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I was listening to part of a sermon today and the pastor talked about how Christ came to divide, how being a Christian causes division.

That got me to thinking about how Tim has repeatedly specifically rejected Christ in favor of the world. Of course he's resisted obeying God for years, but now he's of age and has specifically rejected Christ. I do believe that's opened the door for Satan to work and this could partly have something to do with all of this.

It really does feel as if our family has come under serious spiritual attack these past two months. My wife and I both having health problems (me, kidney stones, my wife with a knee that's probably going to need surgery), and then all this trouble that's been brought on by Tim.

I'll admit there were some very dark days for me in August when I wasn't even allowed to go to my own home or see or speak to my wife or children, I hadn't a clue what social workers were up to, didn't know what the police or judge might say, etc. Thanks be to God, I made it through and since being back home I've put specific effort into making sure I have my prayer times and I focus them, that I take extra time to read and study the Word of God beyond my morning reading, that I keep in prayer throughout the day, that I take the time to think of things to praise and thank God for, etc. It's certainly not easy but I'm determined to come through this valley with my faith strengthened and walking in step with God.

One of the social workers is divorced, on her second marriage, admits she treats her two children very differently, refuses to cook, won't dust the house and makes fun of her second/current husband because "he has a girls name"; his name is Leslie. She also seems about half goofy from the stories she tells.

The other social worker has never mentioned family at all. She gives off the impression she believes all children are virtually perfect and innocent and parents just don't understand their own children like she does.

Oh, I forgot to mention they now want my wife to take some sort of evaluation. They are basically accusing her of not caring about her own family! :loco :verymad:

It's bad enough with most of the attacks hitting me, but now they are trying to target her too.

Thank y'all so very, very much for your words and prayers!

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Its always great to have someone tell you your wrong and they don't know how to do it their self. Many times that is exactly how it is though.

Many of those who get in positions to help other have a history of a messed up life.

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It's so frustrating that our son can lie all he wants and they believe it all without question while my wife and I tell the truth and are automatically considered to be liars if anything we say doesn't match what our son has said. :loco

As I mentioned, they now want my wife to be evaluated because they are claiming she exhibits signs of a "lack of empathy". In other words, they are trying to say she doesn't care about her children, husband, family. :thumbdown

The reason? Because my wife didn't see or try to stop all the abuse (that never happened) that our son is claiming. This is nothing short of a Catch-22 situation. How could she be aware of, and care about, abuse that wasn't happening? Yet, according to them, it had to have been happening simply because our son says so.

I admitted to spanking on occasion. My wife admitted she knew I spanked on occasion. We both told them all the other stuff he claimed was not true and even the lead "child care" (whatever they call themselves) investigator stated that my wife's story and my own matched (we were questioned separately) but that he believed our son was telling the truth! So we were/are automatically liars because they seem to automatically want to believe the child.

It's like last week when I went to the intake meeting for the anger management classes. I was told the interview would take one and a half to two and a half hours because they had to go over "my violent history". Well, I have no violent history (which I've told them repeatedly), so the interview actually only took 45 minutes; mostly to answer some stupid and poorly written questions on their standard government issued forms.

So, I attend the first meeting (oh, and I have to pay for these; 25 dollars for the intake and 10 dollars for each meeting, 30 meetings total!), and there are six other guys in there, at least three looked like they just walked out of prison, and all of them are in there for abuse against their wives or girlfriends. The whole class is geared towards wife/girlfriend abusers so I just sit there listening to them tell their stories for two hours.

Sorry, it seems I'm ranting or rambling, but I do appreciate the chance to share this, which reminds me that the Word says we are to share one anothers burdens, which reminds me of just how very thankful I am that y'all have been so kind and gracious in sharing mine. Thank you!!!

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Wow - the whole situation is just nuts! The "system" is nuts too! Praying for you and your family! I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

One thing that I find amazing and very hard are these verses:
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

It seems ingrained in man that we expect life to have some sense of peace and normalcy, and when something really terrible happens, we tend to recoil in shock - "thinking it strange"! But instead we're supposed to rejoice? That's really tough sometimes. But when you think of Christs sufferings and think that Christ will be glorified by your sufferings, I hope you can take comfort in that.

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Wow - the whole situation is just nuts! The "system" is nuts too! Praying for you and your family! I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

One thing that I find amazing and very hard are these verses:
1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
1 Peter 4:14 If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

It seems ingrained in man that we expect life to have some sense of peace and normalcy, and when something really terrible happens, we tend to recoil in shock - "thinking it strange"! But instead we're supposed to rejoice? That's really tough sometimes. But when you think of Christs sufferings and think that Christ will be glorified by your sufferings, I hope you can take comfort in that.


:amen: Katie!

It's so pointed that you quote what you did. Last week the Lord led me to read and study First Peter. When I came to those verses I spent much time in meditation and prayer; listening to the Lord.

Shortly before all this began it really seemed like things were going very well, in the spiritual sense and the physical. I was growing closer to the Lord, my prayer life had increased, I had set aside a special intercessory prayer time each night, etc.

I've noticed in my life that whenever I'm making notable progress in my walk with the Lord some attack comes about. Of course, I wasn't expecting what happened or any sort of attack or trial that would hit us like this and for such a long duration, but here it is.

I do believe that at least part of what is going on is the devil is trying to devour our family and overwhelm me with physical and spiritual attacks.

Thanks be to my Lord who never leaves me nor forsakes me, and thanks to everyones prayers, I've regrouped and determined to excercise my faith, trust in the Lord, spend even more time in the Word, spend even more time praying to my Heavenly Father, take even more time seeking the guidance of the Holy Ghost.

When I came out of the doctors office Friday with the news I still had a huge part of that kidney stone in me that could be very hazardous and needed dealt with soon I was very down. The Lord brought to my mind the bit of a song I had in my head before I saw the doctor, "You are my God and I will always praise you." I thought right there that "always" means even when things don't go as I wanted. I also thought of a scene from the movie "Facing the Giants" where the coaches wife is in the parking lot of the doctors office after being told she's not pregnant and she prays to God that even if He never lets her have a child she will still love him. So, while driving from the doctors office back to the hospital I praised God and expressed my trust in him. I still "felt" down physically, but my spirit was uplifted and that night I purposefully set forth to give thanks and praise to God in prayer for all the good things in my life even during this deep and long valley.

Praise God!

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I am not sure if this will help but I heard someone say a few years ago that when most people get married the get a marriage license which means that the enter into a contract with the Government. This couple went through the same thing as you are their daughter accused them of abuse and even after she had ommitted that she was lying the state refused to back off. The couple went to the court and asked to have their marriage license revoked and the state backed off. Not sure all the details perhpas someone has heard about this before and can tell us more info. God bless. :)

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I'm so sorry to hear about all of this, John. I've been off-line for a couple of days. Will continue to keep you in my prayers. Do please consider what a couple of other people recommended about contacting the HSLDA or CLA. I honestly think those two social workers are just being stinkers and that they are BLUFFING! I think they are putting you through the ringer because you are letting them. Now don't get me wrong, I think they can make things pretty miserable for you, but they would have to conjure up some sort of proof. I personally would not go to those classes anymore without consulting a lawyer.....you might be giving them government paperwork "proof" of a "violent history" management course having been taken. They may be going after your wife for the same type of "evaluation" as well in order to build a case for removing your son from your care. I suppose that I might be reading into it too much, but I sure wouldn't trust any of those people any further than I could throw them. They are sneaky and can't be trusted. Thanks for updating us......your family has come to mind several times over the last couple of days. :pray

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Its true....my MIL got her grandkid taken away (long history) and on her records she was put down as "mentally unstable" for absolutely NO reason whatsoever! It would probably be scary if you could see what these people are writing down....

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I am not sure if this will help but I heard someone say a few years ago that when most people get married the get a marriage license which means that the enter into a contract with the Government. This couple went through the same thing as you are their daughter accused them of abuse and even after she had ommitted that she was lying the state refused to back off. The couple went to the court and asked to have their marriage license revoked and the state backed off. Not sure all the details perhpas someone has heard about this before and can tell us more info. God bless. :)


John, you and your family are on my mind throughout the day. I talk with my wife about what I read here, and we are both very concerned about you, and pray for you. As to the thought that I quoted above, I do not believe it would help. I have seen social workers go after "families" that were never married. If the marriage license was their only key, those without one would be free from attack. Just keep trusting in the Lord and doing your best to follow him, and he will lead you through.

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