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John81

Tragedy

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Wow, I'm so sorry, John. :sad I have been off OB for a bit because of being so busy with homeschool and the baby and such, and just saw this thread today. The Lord has brought you to my mind many times over the past month, and I've prayed for you not knowing what it was for. I will continue to pray for you and your family about this situation with your son. I can only imagine how hard it must be for you and your wife.

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The posts in this thread have been most appreciated and I've not read a post yet that I find upsetting or wrong.

In any parent/child relationship there is going to be both right and wrong done on both parts. Sadly, even though I'm born again I yet have to deal with the old sin nature at times, as well as the world and the wiles of the devil. I'm not perfect and I've made mistakes. Sadder yet is the fact my son isn't saved and therefore is still governed by his sin nature as well as being more easily influenced by the world and the wiles of the devil.

This, for me, isn't a matter of "blame", it's a matter of looking back trying to see what I can learn. I know at this stage, at his age, he has specifically chosen to reject Christ in favor of the "pleasures of the world". From the time he could read I had him reading Bible stories and then the Bible. He loved them. Our rules were based upon Scripture and the Word of God was referenced whenever they were discussed and whenever rules were broken and had to be addressed. He understood all of this from an early age. His homeschooling (from 3rd to 8th grade) was Bible-based and included the study of the Bible.

Anyway, my train of thought was disrupted by someone at the door and I don't see any point in trying to get back on that track right now.

The main thing now is dealing with the present and continuing to fight the good fight with the hope that he will yet open his heart to Christ before he leaves home.

I'm so thankful we are in such a good church home now and I pray the services we attend and the Sunday School and youth group he attends will help to turn him away from evil and that he will accept Christ as his Saviour and Lord.

Knowing so many of you here are praying for him and our family is a real blessing and I know the Lord hears your prayers. Thank you all so very much!!!

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The posts in this thread have been most appreciated and I've not read a post yet that I find upsetting or wrong.

In any parent/child relationship there is going to be both right and wrong done on both parts. Sadly, even though I'm born again I yet have to deal with the old sin nature at times, as well as the world and the wiles of the devil. I'm not perfect and I've made mistakes. Sadder yet is the fact my son isn't saved and therefore is still governed by his sin nature as well as being more easily influenced by the world and the wiles of the devil.

This, for me, isn't a matter of "blame", it's a matter of looking back trying to see what I can learn. I know at this stage, at his age, he has specifically chosen to reject Christ in favor of the "pleasures of the world". From the time he could read I had him reading Bible stories and then the Bible. He loved them. Our rules were based upon Scripture and the Word of God was referenced whenever they were discussed and whenever rules were broken and had to be addressed. He understood all of this from an early age. His homeschooling (from 3rd to 8th grade) was Bible-based and included the study of the Bible.

Anyway, my train of thought was disrupted by someone at the door and I don't see any point in trying to get back on that track right now.

The main thing now is dealing with the present and continuing to fight the good fight with the hope that he will yet open his heart to Christ before he leaves home.

I'm so thankful we are in such a good church home now and I pray the services we attend and the Sunday School and youth group he attends will help to turn him away from evil and that he will accept Christ as his Saviour and Lord.

Knowing so many of you here are praying for him and our family is a real blessing and I know the Lord hears your prayers. Thank you all so very much!!!


Hang in there brother, we're pulling for you and your WHOLE family. I know that you know this, it want be easy, but every effort you make will be worth while.

In the mean time you will have many :pray for your family.

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Well, just when I thought, or was at least hoping, things couldn't get worse, two police cars pull up to my house last night. They wanted to talk with Tim (our oldest son).

It seems he made a "death list" (which we found in his school backpack after we had him get it from the house). There were like five kids names on the list and he had showed the list to one of the girls on the list, which featured her name followed by the words, "will die".

There were some ramblings on the paper also about the "Organization of Assasins" and the need to "kill all the cowards", etc.

At first he said it was just a joke, then he changed his story to say he just wanted to scare the one girl he showed it to, and then he went back to the it's just a joke story.

I hate to say it, but I do believe his conscience is seered. Even after the police talking with him, followed by one lecture and two talks by me and a talk with his mother, he still doesn't get it and doesn't really care.

I have placed a call to a Christian home for troubled youth in Missouri. Our pastor mentioned to us, though he knows nothing of them personally, just he had heard of them and thought it might be worth checking into since they say they will take kids even if the family can't afford to pay or can't afford to pay the full cost. Hopefully they will call me back Monday; if not I'll be calling them back.

In the meantime, the police will be going to his school Monday morning about this and I'll probably get a call from the school to go pick him up because they will likely expell him for at least ten days and they will certainly want to talk with us.

Please pray we may get him into a Christian home where he can hopefully get the concentrated, Christian help he needs and that his heart will be softened and opened to the Holy Ghost.

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Oh nooooo that is soooo awful.

Still, I'm thinking...you may want to talk to a knowledgeable pastor about possible demonic oppression.... especially with children who do not have violent homes, or watch violent tv or games, it is very suspect.

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Brother, I will continue to pray for you and your family, I cannot begin to understand the depths of your troubles. May God Bless you and strengthen you in these times of troubles.

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Brother' date=' I will continue to pray for you and your family, I cannot begin to understand the depths of your troubles. May God Bless you and strengthen you in these times of troubles.[/quote']

Thank you for your prayers, they are MOST valuable!

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praying for you John. I do think that it is better not let your son think his thoughts is prosessed. In his state of mind, I think he will just let it control him (and enjoy it too). Don't say nothing. Except that it is wrong.

Be careful what school to choice. Some do more harm than good.

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praying for you John. I do think that it is better not let your son think his thoughts is prosessed. In his state of mind, I think he will just let it control him (and enjoy it too). Don't say nothing. Except that it is wrong.

Be careful what school to choice. Some do more harm than good.


I wasn't saying to tell the son...but to have a pastor counsel him and see what he thinks about it...

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Oh nooooo that is soooo awful.

Still, I'm thinking...you may want to talk to a knowledgeable pastor about possible demonic oppression.... especially with children who do not have violent homes, or watch violent tv or games, it is very suspect.


I do worry that now that he's of age and has specifically chose to reject Christ in favor of the "excitement of the world", he's opened himself up to demonic attack and/or influence.

We were trying to get him some good Christian counseling but my wife and I are both now convinced that while seeing a counselor once a week might help explain what his problem is, it won't help him get better. We believe he needs to be in a full-time environment that's geared to helping him.

This is a whole new kind of heartache and helplessness feeling that I've never experienced before. :sad

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praying for you John. I do think that it is better not let your son think his thoughts is prosessed. In his state of mind, I think he will just let it control him (and enjoy it too). Don't say nothing. Except that it is wrong.

Be careful what school to choice. Some do more harm than good.


We've never mentioned anything along the lines of possession to him. I have pointed out to him that there are only two paths a person can be on in this life, where they lead and which one he's on now.

We are checking into this particular place to see what we think. They have an open house coming up and they have a whole interview process and such as well.

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not only that' date=' he need to be watched 24/7 since even the police can't trust him. A home is the best you can do for him.[/quote']

The police told me to check his backpack every day before he goes to school to make sure there are no weapons or anything that could be used as a deadly weapon (knives, scissors, etc.) in his backpack. Likely as not, once the police show the "death list" to the principle he'll be expelled for at least a short time. We'll find out Monday.

Since I've been back at home I've been searching the boys' room almost every day while he's at school and he's not allowed in the kitchen unless myself or his Mom is present.

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my cousin was in an institution because he became violent (his mother's side of family were dyfuntional anyway, my uncle was heartbroken about his son's whole situation). I think he is doing ok today. It's heartbreaking when you want your children to grow up healthy and happy and it turns out like this. I hope he will get better.

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Our pastor said something to me today when I was discussing this with him, something that I have thought about but hadn't yet shared with him, and that is that Tim seems to be showing some of the classic traits of what they call a sociopath.

He knows what is said to be right and wrong but is convinced it doesn't apply to him if he doesn't believe it should.

When he lies he seems to really believe the lies in his own head.

Anyone who attempts to enforce rules that he doesn't like is viewed with contempt or hatred.

When he does wrong he fails to see it as wrong even when he can recite the rules broken and wrong done.

He feels no remorse or sorrow for anything he's done wrong.

He views all of his actions as justifiable simply because he says so.

He will not acknowledge the pain, hurt and wrong he's inflicted upon others but feels he is wronged all the time by virtually everyone.

Unless he opens his heart to the work of the Holy Ghost I truly fear for him and I'm really afraid of what he might eventually do to someone else.

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That could apply to alot of people...my firstborn shows some of that as well....he has made a profession of salvation and still seems to show a tender heart though, so hopefully he will improve with time.

Scary for a parent though.

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That could apply to alot of people...my firstborn shows some of that as well....he has made a profession of salvation and still seems to show a tender heart though, so hopefully he will improve with time.

Scary for a parent though.


True enough, a variety of people show SOME of these signs, but those who show them all and continue in this over years are far fewer.

I worried about some of these things when he was younger but prayed he would come out of it as he got older; prayed he would come to Christ at an early age. Sadly, very sadly, neither of these happened. He is less than two months from being 15 and it seems these evils are compounding quickly.

We had a confrontation just a little while ago. His mother wanted him to do some work in the garden. I checked on him and he wasn't doing what he was told so I told him to get to it. I checked again and found him just standing there. I watched him just standing there for several minutes and finally said something to him. He said he was watching a spider so I told him to do the work his mother told him to do. He just kept standing there so I had to repeat myself. He then slowly began to work. I checked yet again and he wasn't even in the garden and the little work he had done he didn't do it the way he was told. Soo...

I told him to get in the house, get cleaned up and get himself ready for bed. He had a fit. Stomping through the house, didn't dry his hands after washing them and sprayed water around the dining room, stomped up the stairs (and I followed him), he grabbed his pajamas and threw them hard on his desk, jerked his laundry hamper around and threw each piece of clothing into it. I finally told him enough with the attitude. He then DEMANDED that I feed him supper right NOW. I told him if he didn't stop with the attitude and throwing things around he might not get supper. He DEMANDED that he get supper RIGHT NOW. I told him to cut the attitude or just go to bed without supper. He gave me a defiant and hateful glare and proceeded to stomp to his bed, get in and turn his back to me. And that's where I left him.

I'm going to have our youngest son sleep in the living room tonight.

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John; my heart is just sinking.....................Looking to our Saviour for answers for your precious family. Praying for you.

With much love;
Dave and Lee-Anne


Thank you so much!

Ever since the police were here last night it seems his heart has fully hardened. I believe only God can reach him now and prayers by the saints of God is exactly what is needed most at this time.

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I guess it scares me too because we have trouble with my oldest...stuff just doesn't seem to get through to him very easily. The only consolation I have is that it DOES seem like he is honestly trying...but again, he's only eight. I feel your pain.... how horrifying.

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John my wife and I are going through the same thing with her older son 19 it is not fun. Intense Psychotherapy is what we were told. He believes he is saved and those things but does not think relationships with others apply. Sorry to hear this and I apologize for being a jerk the other night. He is 19 so he makes his own decisions we found out to late. So for you do all you can before he is old enough to make his own choices. Tank

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John my wife and I are going through the same thing with her older son 19 it is not fun. Intense Psychotherapy is what we were told. He believes he is saved and those things but does not think relationships with others apply. Sorry to hear this and I apologize for being a jerk the other night. He is 19 so he makes his own decisions we found out to late. So for you do all you can before he is old enough to make his own choices. Tank


It's terrible to see so many kids/youth turning out this way. I don't know if it's happening more now or we can just see it more now than before.

Scripture does indicate that the closer we get to the end, the more children will be disobedient and seek their own way.

Thank you for your words Tank!

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It's terrible to see so many kids/youth turning out this way. I don't know if it's happening more now or we can just see it more now than before.

Scripture does indicate that the closer we get to the end, the more children will be disobedient and seek their own way.

Thank you for your words Tank!

Even though we have obvious diffences John you are what I call a good dude. My wife just told me he is coming to get some things in our storage the sad thing is we cannot even trust him to go over there himself. Tank

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