Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

John81

Tragedy

Recommended Posts

Oh my brother in Christ, I am so sorry for what is happening in your lives right now!!! There is nothing more hurtful to a parent than for a child to turn on them.

re: the knife incident...I don't know what you've done about that, but it might be a good idea to lock up any knives, scissor, and so forth. Keep only two keys - one for you and one for your wife, and keep them on your person at all times. That seems kind of drastic, but finding him with a knife calls for drastic measures! Especially since he rooms with his brother.

I am praying for you, John, and will ask my hubby and son to join in. I second the idea of getting away from the environment you are in now...if social services doesn't stop it. Personally, since he is not respecting you wife right now, I think it would be better if it were just the two of you, and maybe your youth pastor and perhaps the possible counsellor and a couple of other men...kind of a men's retreat. If you could work it out, maybe your son could spend a little bit of time alone with each of the men, fishing or hiking, and they could each try their hand at talking with him. And maybe you could spend some time alone with him as well. Sometimes getting away can help break things open.

He's dealing with some serious anger issues, most likely stemming from the fact that he is unsaved, living in a home where the parents want to live for the Lord and see their children do the same. It's a major spiritual battle, of which I'm sure you are aware!!

Psalm 46:1 "God is our refuge and strength, an ever present help in trouble."

Isaiah 41:10 "Fear thou not, for I AM with thee: be not dismayed; for I AM thy God: I WILL strengthen thee; yea, I WILL help thee; yea, I WILL uphold thee with the right hand of my righteousness."

Jeremiah 33:3 "Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Is it possible some children are born with a more rebellious heart than others? I know I'm far from perfect but I've done everything I could think of over the years to help him come to Christ at an early age' date=' to help him know right from wrong, to guide him, teach him and instruct him. Looking back on it, it seems he's fought me every step of the way.[/quote']

John,

I tried to send this by PM, but it doesn't seem to be going through....I'm not sure how all of this works but I did want to share with you and this is not meant in any harmful way.

Each and every child is different and unique and yes, some do have a "more rebellious heart" than others! There are so many, many variables that shape each and every person. In the end, each is responsible for their own choices; while this is true he is still very much a child. I notice you mentioned many things you've done "to help him" and I know those things must be out of a father's heart of love; have you been able to verbally communicate your heart of love to him? Has he allowed you to hug him and allowed you to express in words and in other emotional ways your heart of love for him? As you've said earlier in the thread, people of every age do have to follow rules and many do have a rebellious streak. You will certainly have to reach deep down in order to trust God; this is one of the most frightening things you and your wife will face in raising children. None of them will ever be perfect (as we certainly are no more perfect than they) and it is hard to let go of our control of them (even in little ways) and place them in God's hands. Some things you will not be able to regulate in their lives and control. You will need to pick your battles, pray and trust God in his mercy and grace.

Our daughter ran away (to school) one day. She didn't like our rules and had a friend who was seeing a "shrink" telling her how she manipulated her parents and got her own way. So when I grounded her for lying about her whereabouts, she decided to "runaway." We called the Police, and they eventually found her in class at school (she always loved school). We were so very scared, we prayed and cried much. We had an older couple in the church who she really loved and their son (of the same age as she was) was a good friend to our daughter. So, she moved in with them for the period of time of the grounding and they (without her knowledge) enforced the same grounding and rules as what she would have experienced if she stayed with us for that period of time. This allowed her and us (especially me) to have a cooling down period and for her to get good counsel from someone outside my wife and I. She soon realized that even in that family each had their own responsibilities, rules and regulations to follow and that our home was pretty normal and not nearly as restrictive as she was being fed by her girlfriend. It was very difficult to even allow her to stay with them. I worried that she would get bad advise, or realize she didn't need us. I also secretly worried about what other people would think and the "bad testimony" it would be to the lost people around us (family included). I was soon taught a lesson by God; don't worry about others perceptions........do what is right for your family!

Each of our children at one time or another have had varying levels of rebellion and "testing" the boundaries and just plain going through that whole growing up process. Children in Christian homes (saved parents and even being saved themselves) go through very similar phases of maturing. The sins they chase may be different, but it seems to be a similar process. Part of the process for getting ready to leave home and stand on their own two feet requires these types of experiences as they are only sinners saved by grace, just like we adults.

Don't let him fool you, he thinks he's a "man" and doesn't need to have you hug and kiss him and tell him you love him...........that's just an act, keep showing your love. Through it all; we kept hugging, kissing and telling them that we loved them and we would pray and cry. Sometimes they'd put on the act like "yuck" don't hug me; I'm "grown up." Well, here we are many years later and we very rarely ever say hi or goodbye without giving each other a hug, a kiss and saying "I love you" (even the two boys who are military veterans now). They are now passing that on to their children. I am confident they will go through similar growing pains and I'm looking forward to God using us to be there in their lives to give good love and advice (even when they think their mom and dad don't understand them). I look forward to being a better grandfather than I was a father. Praise God, he not only gives our children second chances; he gives we parents second chances.

I hope this helps; I know I didn't give Scripture references....but I believe there's a bunch of Scriptural principles God's taught us and brought through, even in these experiences. If you need to just chat or what have you, let me know. We can email, IM or you can have my phone number. Sometimes just venting, praying and having someone listen who's "been there" before can help.

I will pray the best I know how for you and your family.

Peace! TRC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's actually a really good thought, about that your daughter stayed with a friend for awhile...a trustworthy family of course. As a teen, I didn't get along with my dad at all, and I did spend alot of time (not THAT much, but alot) with a good mentor family that we were close with. Sometimes teenagers can't talk to their parents, but they will talk with a mentor that is just as good as the parents...and sometimes yes, they learn they "aren't the only one" serving God or following rules. Good point.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I mean, it is true that every child is different and has a will, our four children are all very different and some harder to train than others (and none fully successfully yet of course). And also, the longer they go without being saved, the stronger the flesh and the devil are going to be, and fight.

No parent is perfect.... :pray


Yesterday I read something by Pastor Clarence Sexton which pointed out that Adam and Eve in all probability raised Cain and Abel with the same sort of instruction with regards to God, good and evil, being right with God, etc. However, we all know these two sons turned out very different. Cain was self-centered while Abel was God-centered. Same parents, same godly instruction yet one son CHOSE to reject the path of righteousness while the other accepted it.

While in one manner this isn't very comforting, on the other hand it does help to keep things in perspective that in the end, it's our sons own choice that will determine his standing with God. I will continue to do my part as a Christian dad but I must be mindful that only God can soften his heart and draw him to Christ. Even so, I'm yet very :sad

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.


Yes, we do fun things. We go on bike rides, we visit various local parks, we always go someplace for Labor Day, we sometimes take day trips in the summer, we watch select family movies, we work in our garden together, we have church, Sunday School and youth group, we attend family get togethers, etc.

The problem seems to be that he wants to have that part of the world he knows God condemns.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want to thank all of you who have responded. Your prayers, words of advice and encouragement are greatly appreciated.

It's going to be a long road but we are determined to work through this. I know all of your prayers will be a great blessing as only with God's help can we get through this valley and only with God working in our hearts and minds can we ever hope to see good come from this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All we can do is try our best to do our part of it right as you pointed out. The rest is up to the child, they have their own free will and will make their own decisions.

But you will even find Christians who will flat out say when a child goes the wrong way its the parents fault, those who say this don't have no understanding whatsoever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

John, ive been away from the computer and missed this till now. I am soo sorry. I have witnessed these things a few times in my career. it was easier in a small town believe it or not, have a lot of level headed people around here that will intervene and stop the nonsense (most the time).

I hope im not overstating or repeating but have you called the CLA or the Center for Law and Justice (I think thats what its called). Sounds like some social workers need lined out.

I was turned in years ago when I spanked my son in the front yard. Lucky for me, Oregon has a resonable force law that applies to discipline of children and the investigation stopped before it got started.

Im praying for you Brother.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest

As I am reading all of this...it just amazes me the rights that children have in society. Abuse is one thing, but discipline is another. My goodness, discipline is Biblical...as we know. There are so many social workers (who sometimes don't have children of their own), and then...of course, 696-KIDS. Can we get a "hotline" for parents? Maybe, 696-RENTS? I dunno? Well, the government has duped us into believing that children can cause such a commotion in society...and get away with it. We have to worry about adult criminals...and, then kids are causing problems?


I was under the impression for a long time...that OH was a state that was interested in persecuting parents for the needed discipline for their children. Well, many years ago I found out that OH has no law forbidding "Corporal Punishment" for children at home or at school. Interesting.


Deputydog, brings up a very good point. Also, John, I have the name of a Christian attorney...Terry Hamilton. Many IFB's may know of him. He specializes in this sort of thing. In fact, I have a whole booklet stating the "rights of parents" under the US Constitution. If you need the contact...please let me know, brother. God bless you and yours.


BTW, my brothers often joke that the "woodshed" did them MUCH good. They aren't psychopaths and/or criminals, either...and dad believed in NOT "sparing the rod and spoiling the child". Mom took care of me and my lil' sis. Yikes...I was too afraid of the wrath of my dad. I didn't want to face that. :eek Oh...the good ole days. LOL.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There would probably be less criminals if the government would just take a more hands-off approach to families. Parents everywhere are frightened to death that someone will think they are a bad mom and take their kids, so the kids do not get trained as they should. I go to the pediatrician's office and all the moms are sugary sweet to their kids, no matter how awful they are (one child ran from his mom, carrying a tiny newborn, and she was having to tote the infant around as she chased him). I always wonder how much of that is a show, or how many parents are really that sweet at home. Anyway....its just hard to raise kids now, and it will be harder for our children to raise their kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some people think the gov't haven't done enough to protect the kids.

Like the mormon church issues. They were outrageous when the gov't gave them back to their parents.

At least they didn't take John's kids altogether. They could have. I do think they overstepped their boundary by forcing his teenage son to a public school.That should be the parent's choice, not theirs. If they wanted him in a public school they should take him away altogether if the parent are not allow to make decision for their kids. It's like punishing and grounding the parents from making decisions for the kids.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some people think the gov't haven't done enough to protect the kids.

Like the mormon church issues. They were outrageous when the gov't gave them back to their parents.

At least they didn't take John's kids altogether. They could have. I do think they overstepped their boundary by forcing his teenage son to a public school.That should be the parent's choice, not theirs. If they wanted him in a public school they should take him away altogether if the parent are not allow to make decision for their kids. It's like punishing and grounding the parents from making decisions for the kids.


That's true....and by putting his kid in a public school it was like allowing him to snub his nose and lose further respect for his "wrong" parents. How are they supposed to work with him now that the government has basically told the son he doesn't have to obey?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The gov't became his parents while John became their doormat. (it's kinda like a parent drop their kids off to live with their grandparents and expect the grandparents use their money to feed and shelter the kids while they still have authority. The grandparents would have no sayso to the kids)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
All we can do is try our best to do our part of it right as you pointed out. The rest is up to the child, they have their own free will and will make their own decisions.

But you will even find Christians who will flat out say when a child goes the wrong way its the parents fault, those who say this don't have no understanding whatsoever.

Proverbs 22:6 is still in the Bible, Jerry8. Parents do share in part of the blame if the children become rebels against God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, this thread has really turned from trying to lift up and encourage a brother to casting dispersions and blame; and that from the people I thought would most likely not do that.

What gives with people? Why are we so quick to shot our wounded and to take the place of God as judge?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree, this is not the thread for that. Let's just keep this thread to being an encouragement, or even I don't think its so bad discussing the government, but its impossible to say "whose fault" this is when we don't even know them personally, so there's no reason to discuss "blame" whatsoever in this thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow, this thread has really turned from trying to lift up and encourage a brother to casting dispersions and blame; and that from the people I thought would most likely not do that.

What gives with people? Why are we so quick to shot our wounded and to take the place of God as judge?


Sometimes I ask questions that may seem like I am blaming him. But I am not. But I do have friends who did the same thing and I thought it could help him build a relationship with his son. I am also learning from him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Wow, this thread has really turned from trying to lift up and encourage a brother to casting dispersions and blame; and that from the people I thought would most likely not do that.

What gives with people? Why are we so quick to shot our wounded and to take the place of God as judge?

I was casting no blame, nor was I judging. Sorry if bringing a Bible verse into the mix was wrong. I in no way was casting aspersion on anyone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was casting no blame, nor was I judging. Sorry if bringing a Bible verse into the mix was wrong. I in no way was casting aspersion on anyone.


You did no wrong and have nothing to be sorry for.

When Bible verses come in along with Bible truths, even in Christians circles its not liked by some.

I did not say it was never the parents fault, I did say that many people are very quick to say its always the parents fault which is 100% wrong.

I never have enough knowledge to determine whose fault it is, I'm just a mere man, only God can know this, and I know you feel the same way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


You did no wrong and have nothing to be sorry for.

When Bible verses come in along with Bible truths, even in Christians circles its not liked by some.

I did not say it was never the parents fault, I did say that many people are very quick to say its always the parents fault which is 100% wrong.

I never have enough knowledge to determine whose fault it is, I'm just a mere man, only God can know this, and I know you feel the same way.
Thank you, Jerry.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Guest
When Bible verses come in along with Bible truths' date=' even in Christians circles its not liked by some.[/quote']


Isn't that the truth pastor Jerry. LOL. The Bible verses do speak for themselves, don't they?


LuAnne...ITA with Pastor Jerry. You did nothing wrong, nor should you be scoulded for it. Hey, the Bible is what it is. Isn't it? I really don't think that John will be the least bit upset, as he is such a good-natured man. Don't Worry...Be Happy. :wave:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 131 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...