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John81

Tragedy

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I would move from that neighbor. He obviously bad influence on your children and planting ideas in their head. or at least put up a privacy fence so he can't complain anymore. just an idea, although you might not want to do that right away.

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Man, that stinks that they ONLY believe the child, with NO evidence. Children who truly are abused as your son said would have some marks or scarring. Sad.

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My sister was somewhat that way. She felt because they were not her real parents they had no right to tell her what to do & or not do.

If everything was peachy and going her way she was an ideal daughter but if they were not she was a category 5 destructive typhoon. She would attempt to tear up an anvil just to spite father and mother, them be all peachy after the destruction was done. I might add, she made sure that only family saw the fits, in front of others, even our great aunt who was around us quite often, she acted like a perfect daughter.

I remember that from a very early age, she would pitch a fit when I would call them father, mother, or grandmother, she would express loudly in a total outrage that our mother was dead, our father will be coming for us. Seems when she would do this I would just draw closer to father, mother, and grandmother. But the truth be our father got rid of us and didn't want us. I felt for father, mother, & grandmother many times because they loved her so much and tried their best but yet she very seldom treated them with respect.

I know its a different situation, but its some of the same problems. It seems for some reason some children have total rebellion inside of them.

Prayers. :pray

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I would move from that neighbor. He obviously bad influence on your children and planting ideas in their head. or at least put up a privacy fence so he can't complain anymore. just an idea' date=' although you might not want to do that right away.[/quote']

Wise, smart! I back this comment, he has gotten those ideas from somewhere, I think if you get a chance to move it would be good.

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Very few women understand that a false accusation of rape is as horrifying to the man accused as the rape would have been to the woman doing the accusing.

At the same time very few children comprehend that false accusations of abuse are as painful and horrifying (if not more so) than what abuse they might have suffered at the hands of an abusing parent. It seems few social workers understand that either, nor do they understand the abuse those false accusation place on the other children, who must then live in fear of being yanked away from their parents.

I'll be praying for you. I've also had a run in with a lazy, out-of-control social worker who was more interested in making a case than whether or not there was actually any problem. Fortunately for us I was able to solidly prove our innocence, as well as the social worker's incompetence.

But having my own son lie about me, that would simply tear my heart out.

I'll pray for healing and forgiveness for your family. I wish I knew of some other way of helping as well.

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After dinner today, when he was supposed to be brushing his teeth, I caught our oldest in the kitchen trying to take a big kitchen knife. He claimed he just wanted to look at the knife but that was obviously a lie. Just what he wanted the knife for is worrisome in itself.

I had him sit in his chair in the dining room for awhile and then I went and talked with him. During the course of the talk I pointed out how is Mom and Dad love him and care for him, at which point he interrupted and said, "I don't see that you guys have done anything for me". :-S I asked him who makes sure he has more than enough to eat, who makes sure he has clothes to wear, a roof over his head, a bed to sleep in, who takes care of him when he's sick, etc. He said he never thought about that stuff. I pointed out that we don't have to provide him anything more than a basic meal and simple clothes but that we always have provided him with more. I noted how half the world would love to trade places with him. I told him we don't have to take him out to Pizza Hut, or let him have a cola to drink or some chips or a candy bar sometimes; I asked him who just bought him a nice hooded sweatshirt and pointed out we didn't have to do that either, etc. Again, he just looked as if he didn't really care too much and said he never thought about that stuff.

I'm at such a loss as to what, if anything, more I can do now. He's specifically refused to accept Christ because he says he wants to do what he wants rather than what God says. This scares me most of all because at his age and with what he knows of Scripture I do believe if he were to pass away he would be eternally lost. :sad

I even told him today that when he ran away just how worried I was about him and all the hours I spent looking for him and the miles I put on the car and that I couldn't sleep or eat and how happy I was when the call came that he was found. I told him how we went to pick him up and I had planned something like the story of the prodigal son for when we came home and how I was unable to do that because of his lies and dragging all these outside people into our lives.

I'm so sad and it pains me so much to see how he has become and to see the pain this is causing my wife; as well as so many others.

I truly appreciate all of your prayers. It's more than obvious to me that only God can get through his hardened heart and only God can open his eyes and understanding. I pray it's not too late. :pray

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Wow, the thing about the knife is extremely scary. He definitely needs professional counseling, and fast. I can't imagine what happened...man. Sounds like the devil has him in a stronghold.

:pray

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I'm not against counseling, I just want him to have Christian counseling because there is such a HUGE difference between Christian counseling and worldly counseling. True Christian counseling seeks to help the person understand the problems in their own heart and to correct them (among other things). Worldly counseling tends to look for others to blame for everything and often does little to correct the real problems. The Christian counselor believes in God and Scripture while the worldly counselor tends not to believe in either, or only superficially, and relies upon the "wisdom" of man to answer all questions.

I do worry that without realizing it our oldest son has placed himself in the hands of the devil by outrightly rejecting Christ and turning his back upon God and by not honouring his parents or others.

There is a man here in town ready to counsel him (mentioned him earlier, he's a former police officer, youth counselor and pastor). Our pastor approached him and then told us about him. However, if the social worker won't or can't accept him because of their rules, he won't be able to counsel our son. Please pray about this.

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JOhn what do you think about a family retreat? You need to try at least for a moment to change the environment. I pray God can give you wisdom' date=' of how to use the wise words toward your son.[/quote']

I'm not sure what you mean by family retreat.

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maybe you can ask the social worker if he could go to a certified christian institution?

lock your and your other kids bedroom at night. Who knows what's going through his mind right now. At least until you can trust him.

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maybe you can ask the social worker if he could go to a certified christian institution?

lock your and your other kids bedroom at night. Who knows what's going through his mind right now. At least until you can trust him.


There is a Christian home (or whatever they call it) not all that far from here that my pastor and I have discussed. At this time, I don't think our son would want to go and I don't know if my wife would want him to go right now, although she has really awakened to some stuff lately and the knife thing has her worried.

Sadly, our sons share a room. My wife is now worried about this, as am I.

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The knife thing scares me too.

Have you checked his room lately? What kind of music is he listening to, or sneaking? With his outright rebellion to salvation, and in light of a few other things you've said, my mind is unfortunately turning towards the idea of at least a demon oppression of your son, if not worse. I don't say it lightly...however, when a child who is relatively sheltered???? turns to such extreme rebellion and possibly violence, you really need to find an experienced Christian counselor who has dealt with children like this before.

I feel SO bad for you guys...man...

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The knife thing scares me too.

Have you checked his room lately? What kind of music is he listening to, or sneaking? With his outright rebellion to salvation, and in light of a few other things you've said, my mind is unfortunately turning towards the idea of at least a demon oppression of your son, if not worse. I don't say it lightly...however, when a child who is relatively sheltered???? turns to such extreme rebellion and possibly violence, you really need to find an experienced Christian counselor who has dealt with children like this before.

I feel SO bad for you guys...man...


He no longer has a radio or CD player in his room. He lost the radio for listening to stations he was told not to listen too (country and rock). He lost his CD player for listening to it when he wasn't supposed to be listening to it. So, unless he is now hearing music at public high school, or on the bus, he's not listening to any music except for at church.

It really bothers me that since he finished 2nd grade he's been homeschooled and kept away from so much of the evil of the world with regards to wicked friends, books, music, etc. and yet he's so drawn to such.

The other day I gave him a copy of the latest Voice of the Martyers and Kids of Courage. When I went through his room after the knife incident I noticed both of them crunched up and tossed into his garbage can.

When he was younger he had such a love for reading the Bible and biblical stories and such. Today he tries to avoid the Bible and things biblical.

As you might expect, I'm in much prayer about this. I'm going to do what I can to make sure he's allowed to have a Christian counselor because I really fear what a worldly counsellor might put into his head.

It's so difficult because on the surface he doesn't seem like a "bad kid" and to anyone who hans't spent a lot of time around him they would never guess how he really is, but somehow a very self-centered aspect has taken hold of him and he believes everything should go his way and none of the rules should apply to him if he doesn't like them.

I've even tried explaining to him that it doesn't matter whether you are 2, 20, or 80, we all have rules to live by. No matter our age or who we are there are always things we have to do whether we want to or not and there are always things we can't do whether we want to or not. He seems to grasp the idea to an extent but yet doesn't think it should apply to him.

I was so careful when he was very young to make sure he always understood the rules and that I never punished him if he was uncertain or didn't know about a rule. When he would do something wrong when he was very young I would always ask him what he had done wrong, what the rule was about that and what the consequences were. From a very young age he's been able to say what rule he broke, what the rule is and what the consequences are.

Is it possible some children are born with a more rebellious heart than others? I know I'm far from perfect but I've done everything I could think of over the years to help him come to Christ at an early age, to help him know right from wrong, to guide him, teach him and instruct him. Looking back on it, it seems he's fought me every step of the way.

Only the Lord can reach him now and I pray I may yet be of use to the Lord in helping him to turn from evil and to turn to Christ.

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John,

Praying for you. There is so much that could be said, but it could all be fruitless because we aren't there and don't have contact with you and your family. I am praying for wisdom for you, your wife, and your pastor. I pray that God will lift you up through this and that He will be glorified ultimately.

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John,

Praying for you. There is so much that could be said, but it could all be fruitless because we aren't there and don't have contact with you and your family. I am praying for wisdom for you, your wife, and your pastor. I pray that God will lift you up through this and that He will be glorified ultimately.


Thank you Zeal. Your words and prayers are greatly appeciated!

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I mean, it is true that every child is different and has a will, our four children are all very different and some harder to train than others (and none fully successfully yet of course). And also, the longer they go without being saved, the stronger the flesh and the devil are going to be, and fight.

No parent is perfect.... :pray

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Praying with you; and for your family John. As Kitagirl said; there is no such thing as the perfect parent or child. The longer I am a parent, the more I realise this. Looking to our precious Saviour to meet your need... :pray

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do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.

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do you go out and have fun? like playing sports? or fishing?

I think it may be that your son want to be part of the world. He might be bored out of his mind and that everything he does is wrong and hates the bible because of it. A good summer camp is great!He just need alittle laugh and fun.


Not camp yet though...maybe a Dad/son fishing trip, family camping trip...? If the social workers allow... I wouldn't let him out of sight for at least a year or until he can be at least remotely trusted.

Good points though.

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As I've said before, I have seen families where the parents have seemed to have done every thing right, but still their child completely rebels.

I don't feel that this is something that anyone can really give you a correct answer as to why this is happening. To me, all you can do is, pray for him, them do your best to guide him the right way.

PS. I might add that some of those worldly counselors can tell you what they think is the problem,
but the truth be said, most times their opinion is worthless.

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