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1Timothy115

The Supreme Court June 2015

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On April 28 the U.S. Supreme Court reviewed the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals ruling, which upholds marriage laws in Michigan, Kentucky, Ohio and Tennessee. A ruling is expected in June. I voted for the law in Ohio, "marriage only recognized as between one man and one woman",  and I'm praying daily it will be upheld.

If upheld, the fear on the left is that many of the states whose laws were recently over turned will be able to reinstate those laws. The people of these states voted for the laws and should not be reversed by 'activist' judges.

I hope you will pray daily or as often as you remember that the laws and 6th Court of Appeals decision will be upheld.

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This matter does need our prayers. I hear a growing number of Christians saying the court may use this to make homosexual "marriage" the law of the land, rather than what we would hope.

They mentioned this on the radio this morning and pointed out at least two major Indian tribes and their reservations would refuse to accept homosexual "marriage" even if the Supreme Court makes it the law.

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On a slightly different subject.  On our news today was a report that 71 children under 10 had attended a gender identity clinic in the last year.  One as young as 3.  When will it all end.

Edited by Invicta
for accuracy

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On a slightly different subject.  On our news today was a report that 71 children under 10 had attended a gender identity clinic in the last year.  One as young as 3.  When will it all end.

​No, Invicta, it couldn't be any more to the point.

All of us who are saved by grace know God set up marriage the way he did for obvious reasons and for some which may be beyond our comprehension this side of glory.

It is past time for us to not be ashamed to stand up against the denigration of the picture and type of our Lord's relationship to us. We have the marriage of a man to a woman as this picture and type. It is time to explain calmly and in honesty how deeply we cherish this relationship and will not stand by without speaking out in defense of this, a center piece of our faith practice.

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The time is coming when we will have to face giving up much for standing with Christ or give in to preserve what we've grown accustomed to.

There are a lot of threats lingering out there, from outlawing speaking the biblical truth on sodomy to taking away church tax breaks and pastor tax breaks, losing State sanction to issue a legal marriage certificate, strict zoning restrictions against churches, outlawing speaking biblical truth at work or schools, etc.

What happens when the SWAT team raids your home, locks everyone up, confiscates your Bibles and other Christian materials, and then threatens to lock your spouse away, take your children from you, cost you your job and bankrupt you unless you agree to renounce your "subversive Christian behaviors" and sign a legally binding document saying you agree with the governments anti-Christian laws and will abide by them?

Such a day may not be that far away...

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I have a question...

Black Eighth Edition Law Dictionary:

"The permission by competent authority to do an act which without such permission, would be illegal"

Merriam Webster Law Dictionary(via Findlaw):

[Anglo-French, literally, permission, from Old French, from Latin licentia , from licent- licens , present participle of licēre to be permitted, be for sale]
1 a : a right or permission granted by a competent authority (as of a government or a business) to engage in some business or occupation, do some act, or engage in some transaction which would be unlawful without such right or permission

When did God's institution of marriage become illegal?

And Why would you want to put the Gov't between you and God in your marriage?

If there was no Gov't marriage license, then the issue of sodomites getting married would be a non-issue.

Colin

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We know as far as God is concerned the only legitimate marriage is that which God designed. God created the institution of marriage to be between one man and one woman. This is clear in Scripture.

Governments got involved, as they always do, for the purposes of control and generation of revenue.

As far as Christians are concerned, the legitimacy, the true binding of a marriage, is between the couple and God. While governmental approval may make a marriage legal in the eyes of the government, it doesn't take governmental approval to make a marriage "legal" in the eyes of God.

There are some Christians who still only have a Christian wedding which is "only" religious in nature. They don't get a government sanctioned marriage license. These folks are married in the eyes of God, but in the eyes of the government they are not. If they want the legal things which come with government sanctioned marriage, such as spousal "rights" they must go about getting such through different means, such as living wills, powers of attorney, etc.

Unfortunately, there are many Christians who look down upon Christian marriages which aren't government sanctioned.

As far as the homosexual "marriage" issue...such may be made legal by the government but that doesn't change the fact God doesn't recognize such an abomination as anything other than sin.

Marriage was a sacred, "religious" covenant between a man and a woman and God before the government stepped in and assumed authority over such. That which God established still stands regardless of government rulings and laws.

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Our struggle is not against flesh and blood....   I learned that a long, long time ago.  I take that to heart I really do.  Its easy to get upset with someone that doesn't have a clue of what's going on.  Natural mind does not understand the things of God.  Powers that be are ordained of God.  Lucifer weakens the nations.  People that are according to the flesh are going to fight flesh.  My opinion.  You will never win there.  The battle is God's. 

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Our struggle is not against flesh and blood....   I learned that a long, long time ago.  I take that to heart I really do.  Its easy to get upset with someone that doesn't have a clue of what's going on.  Natural mind does not understand the things of God.  Powers that be are ordained of God.  Lucifer weakens the nations.  People that are according to the flesh are going to fight flesh.  My opinion.  You will never win there.  The battle is God's. 

​This is such a key point and also a point where the so-called "Religious Right" have gone into error. Rather than fight the battle as Scripture says, the religious right turned mostly to politics and political action.

Nothing wrong with voting or speaking biblical truth on a matter but that's not the real battle and not where the battle will be won.

When we fight the worlds way we can expect the worlds results.

Notice how much worse things were for the Apostles and early Christians yet they dealt with things in accord with Scripture rather than using worldly methods and Scripture praises such.

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I have a question...

Black Eighth Edition Law Dictionary:

Merriam Webster Law Dictionary(via Findlaw):

When did God's institution of marriage become illegal?

And Why would you want to put the Gov't between you and God in your marriage?

If there was no Gov't marriage license, then the issue of sodomites getting married would be a non-issue.

Colin

​Colin, if it were not for denigrating the relationship of Jesus Christ to me, I would have nothing to say about it. [ Ephesians 5:25-32 ] Since it does denigrate the Lord's relationship to me I am compelled to speak against it. 2 Timothy 4:2 "Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."

"denigrate
verb (used with object), denigrated, denigrating.
1. to speak damagingly of; criticize in a derogatory manner; sully; defame:to denigrate someone's character.
2. to treat or represent as lacking in value or importance; belittle; disparage:to denigrate someone's contributions to a project.
3. to make black; blacken: rain clouds denigrating the sky."
"denigrate." Collins English Dictionary - Complete & Unabridged 10th Edition. HarperCollins Publishers. 08 Apr. 2015. <Dictionary.comhttp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denigrate>.

 

Edited by 1Timothy115

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Yup lol,  Sometimes you have righteous indignation.  I do we all do.  It gets to you and you just want to say something.  We all have our own formula's (political strategies and arguments, persuasion).  The world is a dark place.  I think Paul called it this present darkness.  Sometimes fellowship is the only joyful place.  Of course the presence of God.  The Holy Spirit.  Jesus said I have overcome the world. 

Abortion used to drive me mad.  I really hated it.

The only relief.  I have every experienced from this being a dark fallen world.  Is soul winning.  I can actually go out and soul win and help save a life.  That's serious business.  It changed my entire life. I left my life of fighting against the world about things like abortion.  Realizing that I can help save souls from eternal damnation.  It took me from being the hero (like it or not I did want to be one).  To Jesus being the Savior.  He saved the world.  All it takes is them recognizing that fact and someone is saved...

I read today that Kansas signed a bill that ends second trimester d and c.  That's how insane some of these people are.  They mourn someone like Tiller who killed infants in the third trimester.  People almost lol lost religion over that guy. 

Once again Jesus saved lives everyone's if they turn and recognize that.  No one can get near what He did on the Cross. 

Edited by Potatochip

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Is soul winning.  I can actually go out and soul win and help save a life.  That's serious business.  It changed my entire life. I left my life of fighting against the world about things like abortion.  Realizing that I can help save souls from eternal damnation.  It took me from being the hero (like it or not I did want to be one).  To Jesus being the Savior.  He saved the world.  All it takes is them recognizing that fact and someone is saved...

​You know what you can do both. Both soul win and voice scripture based opposition to denigration of the Savior.

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​You know what you can do both. Both soul win and voice scripture based opposition to denigration of the Savior.

​The first is helpful to the lost while the second is needful for the saved.

There are actually many professing Christians out there, both biblical and secular, who are ignorant of how marriage and a host of other things have anything to do with Christianity. They need education regarding how our faith and life in this world interrelate.

I know of pro-life folks who once were pro-choice based upon ignorance. They had not made the connection between the many passages of Scripture which speak on the subject and the reality of what an abortion actually is.

The public school system and liberalized colleges (along with the aid of the news and entertainment media) have done a great job creating uneducated adults. Unfortunately, many Bible schools and preachers leave Christians in such a state or make matters worse.

Regular church attendance, adult Sunday school, Bible studies, these are all so very much needed.

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I think my original questions might have been misunderstood, I was being rhetorical.

The reality is most people are upset about the wrong thing just like most people ask the wrong questions.

The question isn't, should sodomites be allowed to get a gov't sanctioned marriage license, the question you should be asking is, why is the gov't allowed to have any say at all in the institution of marriage.

You shouldn't be wasting your time speaking out against sodomite marriage, you should spend your efforts removing gov't from marriage period.

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I think my original questions might have been misunderstood, I was being rhetorical.

The reality is most people are upset about the wrong thing just like most people ask the wrong questions.

The question isn't, should sodomites be allowed to get a gov't sanctioned marriage license, the question you should be asking is, why is the gov't allowed to have any say at all in the institution of marriage.

You shouldn't be wasting your time speaking out against sodomite marriage, you should spend your efforts removing gov't from marriage period.

​We (Christians) have no means of doing this. America, regardless of nearly three-fourths of the population claiming to be Christian, is very secular and liberalized. Most of the newer polls now show over half of Americans favor sodomite "marriage". These people, along with many others, aren't about to vote for government removal from matters of marriage.

Once the government has control over a matter they aren't likely to give it up. The government has taken authority over "legal" marriage for a very long time and won't be inclined to give it up.

Also, in today's society, as soon as Christians start talking about being for or against something with regards to government based upon their Christianity, the opposition is able to bring the masses against us as they accuse us of trying to force our religion upon them.

Where we are able we should do what we can, but the main battle is spiritual and that's where we should concentrate our efforts. Imagine if Christians gave as much time to prayer over these matters as they do "political action".

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See people get wound up.  Its like righteousness I guess.  I just don't bother trying to change the world.  I do what I am supposed to.  Its fallen man fer sure.  Controversy isn't Salvation.  The Gospel saves.  It is the Power of God.  Its abortion before that Vietnam before that Korea before that WW2 WW1, Civil war, slavery, revolutionary war etc etc.  Roman Church slaying of Christians.  The list of tragedies goes on and on. 

Ecclesiastes 7:10 (KJV)

Say not thou, What is the cause that the former days were better than these? for thou dost not enquire wisely concerning this.

Only one Savior and Salvation Jesus.   Everything else just seems to churn up mud.

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You shouldn't be wasting your time speaking out against sodomite marriage, you should spend your efforts removing gov't from marriage period.

​I agree with everything you said up to this point. I have voiced the opinion to my representatives and senators in the past...deaf ears to say the least. Now all I have are public forums on the internet to encourage others to stand against denigration of my Savior. I full well intend to encourage the removal of our present RINO senator, Rob Portman, and see him replaced with a pro-family senator. Please don't misconstrue my fervor for anger, I'm convinced the only argument to base a change in the direction of this denigration is by scripture and prayer; both have been absent too long. Keep door knocking brother as I too will do, there are souls who need to hear the Gospel.

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Amen and the fellowship.  Most events we deal with anyway.  Culminate in eating together and talking about the Bible, apologetics all kinds of Christian topics among ourselves praying.  Sometimes there are only a few of us.  Sometimes as many as 8 or 9 people handing out tracts.  Preaching.  One on one soul winning.  Its all about Jesus with us.  A city with a lot of tourists and a lot of residents.  It's what we do.  The one joy in life.  Even if I go there on my own.  I get a lot from scripture.  Reading it myself and from other of us.  The how do I do this and how do I do that when I first became a Christian seemed to all come together.  Over the years. 

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​I agree with everything you said up to this point. I have voiced the opinion to my representatives and senators in the past...deaf ears to say the least. Now all I have are public forums on the internet to encourage others to stand against denigration of my Savior. I full well intend to encourage the removal of our present RINO senator, Rob Portman, and see him replaced with a pro-family senator. Please don't misconstrue my fervor for anger, I'm convinced the only argument to base a change in the direction of this denigration is by scripture and prayer; both have been absent too long. Keep door knocking brother as I too will do, there are souls who need to hear the Gospel.

​Letters I send to our reps and senators bring a response which basically says "thanks for your input but we're going to do what we want anyway".

Thankfully our pastor leads us in prayer for our nation and leaders during each service. From what I've heard from many others, this doesn't happen in their churches.

One thing I've noticed about many of the politicians is we can find one we agree with in one or five key areas but then they stand against our views in one or five other key areas. One recently spoke strongly against all abortion but then holds the view homosexual marriage should be legal.

The only hope for political success, and something we Christians have failed at terribly during the last several election cycles, is to be very active in the primaries, choose a candidate early and support them fully from one State to the next regardless of the news reports or Party leaders comments.

We've lost any chance at getting a good candidate on the ballot in the past election cycles by demanding the perfect candidate in the primaries. Since no perfect candidate exists we have claimed to support "A" but only until something spooks us and we jump to "B" only to abandon them as soon as something negative is said and we briefly cling to "C" until we see they aren't perfect either and while we are searching for "D" the better candidates are by now out of the race and the establishment candidate (who is liberal leaning) wins the race.

Why don't we have great prayer gatherings prior to the primaries so we can learn who to support and then do so when the primaries come about?

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That's why I like Cruz. He stands for what's right without apology. I was very interested to learn that he and his wife spent a great deal of time seeking God as to whether or not he should run. Their pastor spent a good amount of time with them about it as well. 

No, politics isn't the answer. But we sure as shooting better start working and praying harder to get truly good people in office or we'll be having more and more Pence-like repeats.

Getting the gov't out of marriage would be great...but it's like that proverbial camel: nose gets in the tent, won't be long til the whole thing comes through - and tears the whole tent down.

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