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Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.


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Sorry Alan, I have been having computer problems; I was actually posting in response to the last part of page 7 and the first part of page 8 on Matt.10:33 whosoever shall deny me before men him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. When I hit send it place my post at the end of page 9; So I am really responding to Matt.10:33!

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Revelation 19:1-6 “The Hallelujah Chorus.” Verse 1, “And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord

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Invicta, The scriptures clearly differentiate between the Judgment Seat of Christ and the White Throne of Judgment. Let us follow the admonition of Paul the Apostle when he said, "Study to shew thysel

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If you have closely read my previous posts you would have discovered what the scriptures state and how the Christians in the Church Age have received their rewards before Revelation chapter 5.

Huh? How can they have received them in John's time? He hadn't even been shown the future of history yet by the Lord opening the 'book'. It is only after the book was opened that future things were shown to John and us. And that was after chapter 5.

After all the Book Of Revelation had something to reveal.

Brother? Should such words have been written here after such a statement by you of this:

Brethren,

I clearly taught what the scriptures clearly teach; that Christians received their rewards before Revelation 5. Therefore, to say that  statement is a man's belief and not the scriptures is trying to spread deceit and an effort to stop the clear teaching of scripture on this thread. It is obvious that you are trying to deceive the other readers of this lesson by implying what I taught was a man-made doctrine. Also, I do not appreciate you, Old-Pilgrim, and Genevanpreacher, spreading that falsehood.

 

*How can you support a comment like this when the timing is completely off from it being the future state of rewards?

And, ahem, what falsehood are you referring to when your teaching is so flawed with this timing being misrepresented by you?

No disrespect, but your statement about  "the Christians in the Church Age have received their rewards before Revelation chapter 5." lacks strength.

 

 

Edited by Genevanpreacher
to correct an indentation.
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Huh? How can they have received them in John's time? He hadn't even been shown the future of history yet by the Lord opening the 'book'. It is only after the book was opened that future things were shown to John and us. And that was after chapter 5. After all the Book Of Revelation had something to reveal.

Brother? Should such words have been written here after such a statement by you of this:

Brethren,

I clearly taught what the scriptures clearly teach; that Christians received their rewards before Revelation 5. Therefore, to say that  statement is a man's belief and not the scriptures is trying to spread deceit and an effort to stop the clear teaching of scripture on this thread. It is obvious that you are trying to deceive the other readers of this lesson by implying what I taught was a man-made doctrine. Also, I do not appreciate you, Old-Pilgrim, and Genevanpreacher, spreading that falsehood.

 

*How can you support a comment like this when the timing is completely off from it being the future state of rewards?

And, ahem, what falsehood are you referring to when your teaching is so flawed with this timing being misrepresented by you?

No disrespect, but your statement about  "the Christians in the Church Age have received their rewards before Revelation chapter 5." lacks strength.

 

 

​Genevanpreacher,

You are entirely mistaken. You do not know what you are talking about . The "Book" in Revelation 5 is not the Book of Revelation. It is an entirely book altogether. The Book of Revelation starts in Revelation 1:1. It is very clear that you cannot rightly divide the scriptures at all and it almost a waste of time in talking with you.

Also, this is off the topic of this thread and I do not want to get involved in a discusssion upon this matter as you are trying to bait me in getting off the subject matter at hand and to prevent honest and sincere learners of the Book of Revelation from commenting on pertainent mattters.

I humbly request that you stop trying to get me off the subject matter and let sincere students of the scripture comment.

 

 

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​Genevanpreacher,

You are entirely mistaken. You do not know what you are talking about . The "Book" in Revelation 5 is not the Book of Revelation. It is an entirely book altogether. The Book of Revelation starts in Revelation 1:1. It is very clear that you cannot rightly divide the scriptures at all and it almost a waste of time in talking with you.

Also, this is off the topic of this thread and I do not want to get involved in a discusssion upon this matter as you are trying to bait me in getting off the subject matter at hand and to prevent honest and sincere learners of the Book of Revelation from commenting on pertainent mattters.

I humbly request that you stop trying to get me off the subject matter and let sincere students of the scripture comment.

​Uh, I did not mean it that way. I should have said that statement in a separate paragraph. I do know they are two different types of books. Sorry. I will fix it and hope you reread my previous post with a better view of what I am trying to say.

Now as for what the book of Revelation teaches - it is showing John coming into the presence of the throne and seeing the Lamb take the book and proceed to reveal what was in that book. The previous verses and chapters are not in that book. And that book reveals the future state of history and the conglomerate of things that will occur on the earth with humanity and the earth and various things the Lord wanted John to write about. THAT is why the title of this book in the Bible is called Revelation. And Christians are not shown to receive anything in the chapters and verses before chapter 5.

Unless of course you are teaching (IMO) a man-made doctrine of the 'churches' in chapters 2 & 3 as being 'church ages'.

.

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Revelation 22:14 and 15, “The Tree of Life.”

Verse 14 and 15 “Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murders, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

The Water of Life – Reference

In order for the physical body to live it must have food and water. And, in order to better grasp the teachings of the tree of life we must review the scriptural teaching of the water of life.  In connection with the tree of life please review the teaching on the water of life as found in Revelation 21:6 and 22:1 Here is the link to study those passages:

http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=4

The Tree of Life – Reference

This passage is a continuation of the Revelation 22:2 Here is the link to that passage:

http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=4

“Blessed are they that do his commandments.”

In our eternal relationship with God, and in the context of 1 John 3:20-24, the Apostle John clearly stated, “And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” 1 John 3:23

Those people who do not obey the direct commandment of believing in the name of His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, will not be able to partake of the Tree of Life for the eternal life of the body.

The other commandments of the Lord Jesus to love one another is found in John 15:10-17 The commandments of Paul the Apostle, inspired by the Holy spirit, is not for salvation, but for proper and righteous service to God.

And, by beloved brethren, we are, “blessed,” if we keep them. If a saint wants to have a close, and a good, relationship with the Lord Jesus, he will learn the commandments that are given for our good in the New Testament, and do them.

“... right...”

God is a Righteous God and all of His words, His actions, His thoughts, His motives, are “right”. Furthermore, God loves righteousness, “the act of being right,” and God wants all those saints who trust in Him for eternal righteousness to be righteous, or right, in all matters of faith, practice, doctrine, and service.

“For the righteous LORD loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright.” Psalm 11:7

When a person, using his own free will, in either Testament, in any age, decides to trust in the Lord Jesus as his Saviour, then, at the moment of salvation, God imputes the righteousness of the Lord Jesus on that person, and that person becomes righteous in the sight of God.

2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “For he [God] hath made him [Jesus] to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.”

Please study Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:1-8; Galatians 3:6 and James 2:23

“For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murders, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”

 In connection with this passage I want to direct the reader to review the scriptural teaching on the condition of the lost as found in the parallel passage in Revelation 21:8 Please take careful note, the water of life and the tree of life are closely connected for the  life of the glorified body of the saved (righteous), and the lack of a glorified body of the last souls (unrighteous), in hell.

For the notes on Revelation 21: 7 please click on the following link:

http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=4

The aforementioned list is some, not all, of the characteristics of the lost who will not be granted the “right” to partake of the tree of life, or the water of life, or to enter in the New Jerusalem. We will briefly discuss the attributes listed.

Dogs - False Teachers in the Church

“Dogs.” In scripture, dogs and pigs are likened to lost people and to false teachers (heretics), who turned from the “holy commandment delivered unto them.”

2 Peter 2:1-22 is dealing with false teachers within the church. 2 Peter 2:1 says, “But there were false teachers also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you; who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that brought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.”

And, “For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again: and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.” 2 Peter 2:21 and 22

The Apostle Peter quoted Proverbs 26:11

The Noah Webster Dictionary of 1828 definition of pernicious is:

1. Destructive; having the quality of killing, destroying, or injuring; very injurious or mischievous.

2. Destructive; tending to injure of destroy. Evil examples are pernicious to morals. Intemperance is a pernicious vice.[1]

The American Heritage definition of pernicious is:

adj. 1. Deadly; a pernicious virus.

2. Destructive: pernicious rumors. [2]

The teaching of heretical doctrines, by false teachers, in our independent, fundamental, Bible believing, Baptist churches, is pernicious. The following false doctrines are used by false teachers to destroy churches:

  1. Calvinism is destroying soul-winning efforts. Calvinism, “TULIP,” is a pernicious doctrine.

  2. Preterist Theology, Covenant Theology, Replacement Theology, a-millennialism, and a belief in a post-tribulation rapture, are destroying the hope of the soon return of Christ. And, is destroying the belief in the literal one thousand year of Christ and casting doubt on the veracity of the Book of Revelation. All of the above, ‘Theologies,’ are pernicious theologies.

  3. In addition to the destroying the belief in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, the Preterist, Covenant Theology, and Replacement Theology teachers are also destroying the belief in the literal fulfillment Covenants of God, the Promises of God, and the prophetic prophesies of the Old Testament prophets. They are, ‘pernicious’ theological teachers.

  4. The new corrupt versions of the scriptures are destroying the very foundation of our faith and has cast doubt in the preservation of the word of God. Every new version, starting with the Revised Version of 1881 are, ‘pernicious’ versions.

 “Thou shalt not bring the hire of a whore, or the price of a dog, into the house of the LORD thy God for any vow: for even both these are abomination unto the LORD thy God.” Deuteronomy 23:18

The obvious spiritual teaching, and practical application, is that you do not give any of the tithes and offerings brought into the church to any false teacher. God’s money is to be spent on the man of God and not a teacher of false doctrine.

Sorcerers

In Revelation 21:8 the Apostle John had previously stated that sorcerers will spend eternity in hell.

Any type of sorcery, or for any reason, either in the Old Testament economy, Deuteronomy 18:9-14, and even in the age of grace, is forbidden, and is an abomination in the sight of God.

Individuals who use any type of sorcery is commanded to repent: Revelation 9:21 and 21

Deuteronomy 18:9-14

All of the Eastern religions are full of sorcery, the Masons, and the Roman Catholic Church are also full of sorcery. Idolatry is always connected with sorcery. In fact, the Beast, in his kingdom in the city of Babylon, will use sorceries as found in these false religions to deceive the world: Revelation 18:23, “And the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy sorceries were all nations deceived.”

Whoremongers – Physical Fornication

Physical Fornication. The marriage act is only for one man, with one wife, to create offspring, for life. “Till death do us part.” Before marriage the man, and the woman, are to remain virgins or chaste: pure in body. Ephesians 5:25-33 The marriage of a man and a woman is a type of Christ and His union with the Church.

When a man, or a woman, goes outside the God given marriage relationship, and has a physical union with another, he, or she, is committing physical whoredom. And, a person who sells their body to perform this physical union is a whore.

Job, a man full of integrity, which is so lacking in our society, said, (in reference to whoredom and before the Law of God was instituted), “For this is an heinous crime; yea, it is an iniquity to be punished by the judges.” Job 31:11

The Levitical Priests were forbidden to take a whore for a wife: Leviticus 21:7

The physical act of committing whoredom (fornication or adultery), has destroyed untold marriages. Proverbs 6:32, “But whoso committeth adultery with a woman lacketh understanding; he that doeth it destroyeth his own soul.”

Physical whoredom is pernicious to the soul, the body, and to any marriage.

Spiritual Fornication Or Ecumenicalism

Spiritual Fornication. Committing whoredom with the religious denominations of this world is spiritual fornication.

In a direct reference to the Roman Catholic Church and all those churches allied with her, the Apostle John wrote, “And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.” Revelation 17:5

When the nation of Israel forsook God and committed idolatry with the false religions of the surrounding nations, Isaiah wrote, “Upon a lofty an high mountain hast thou set thy bed: even thither wentest thou up to offer sacrifice. Behind the doors also and the posts hast thou set up thy remembrance: for thou hast discovered thyself to another than me, and art gone up; thou hast enlarged thy bed, and made thee a covenant with them; thou lovedst their bed where thou sawest it.” Isaiah 57:7 & 8 Please study Isaiah 57:1-12; Ezekiel 6:9 & 10; 16:30-63

Any church, or denomination, that is in union with the Roman Catholic Church, any other false church, any false prophet, any false teacher, anything connected with idolatry, is committing spiritual whoredom.

Murders – Physical

Man is made in the image of God, and it is not the right (except in self defense), of any individual to take the life of another individual. God gave the civil government the right of the execution of murders and for the physical protection of citizens; Romans 13:1-7.

For those murderers that escape the hand of the State, the murderer will, in eternity, meet the Final Judge.

One of the reasons why God gave the Jews, and mankind, the Law, was to enforce the punishment of evildoers. “Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers.” 1 Timothy 1:9

Murders – Spiritual

“We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.” 1 John 3:14 & 15

When we have hate in our hearts for our fellow man, particularly a brother in Christ, it is an indication that we are not truly saved. Hate, like all of the other issues of life, comes from our heart: Proverbs 4:23 And, is a characteristic of the flesh: Galatians 5:20

The Lord Jesus, like His Heavenly Father, had love for all. When the Lord died on the Cross of Calvary, He died for every person that ever lived. Besides John 3:16 and 2 Peter 3:9, and a host of other scriptures, we will just quote one in this study: “And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.” 1 John 2:2

The Calvinistic doctrine of the limited atonement is a lie. It is a slap in the face of Jesus Christ, a perversion of the scriptures, a doctrine of hate, and a blot on the Church. Anybody that teaches such a doctrine is a false teacher, and has a severe lack of love for the lost.

The Lord Jesus, our Friend, our Master, and our Example, loved everybody. While on the cross, in the midst of severe physical, mental, and spiritual agony; Jesus died for all and forgave His enemies who put Him on the cross. The Grace, and Love, of the Lord Jesus, is truly Amazing!

Idolaters – Physical

God is a Spirit, John 4:24, and all man-made images made for religious worship are idols and are forbidden in the Old and New Testament: Exodus 20:3-5 “Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me.”
According to the above scriptures, a person who worships an image has an inward hatred of God in his heart. When the heart of the Jewish nation, and the heart of the individual, was bad, they, on most occasions, went into idolatry. Idolatry, like all of the other sins of the flesh, is a heart problem: it is not a head problem. Please study Ezekiel 14:1-11

In the Far East; in India, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, idolatry is rampant. Included in the worship of images are the images of the Roman Catholic Church under the deceitful guise of ‘Christian’ images. A large amount of the population in Europe is Roman Catholic, America, South America, the Philippians, and Mexico and host of other counties, under the deceitful guise of the Roman Catholic Church, are idolatrous.

During the 7-Year Tribulation Period, the anti-Christ will make an image for worship. Revelation 13:13-15

Idolatry – Spiritual

God looks and tests the heart of men. Please re-study Ezekiel 14:1-11

We see the equivalent of Ezekiel 14:1-11 in the New Testament in Colossians 3:5, “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry.”

Are you covetous? That is spiritual idolatry. Do you covet possessions? That is spiritual idolatry. Do you covet fame? That is spiritual idolatry.

Paul the Apostle taught the saints in his age to ‘mortify’ these fleshly desires. Do you know what ‘mortify’ means? The American Heritage Dictionary says:

  1. To shame, humiliate.

  2. To discipline (one’s body and appetite) by self-denial.

    [Latin. mortificare, cause to die.[3]

“and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” Physical

The world is full of liars. And, God will punish every one of them.

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.” Proverbs 19:9

“and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” Spiritual

All false doctrines, from all of the false teachers, from all of the false religions, are lies. A half-truth is designed to deceive. A half-truth, a partial truth, a twisting of the truth, a verse taken out of context, and other forms of deceit are lies.

Calvinism “TULIP” are lies, Covenant and Replacement Theology are partial truths and bits of scripture designed to deceive. The Jehovah’s Witnesses are liars. Hell is a real place and so is heaven. Infant baptism is a lie, starting from Revised Version of 1881 to the present day, all of the new versions of the scriptures contain lies of some sort, half-truths, and partial truths and the twisting of the truth. The doctrine of a-millennialism is a lie. The notion that the book of Revelation is symbolic, figurative, or allegorical, are all lies. The Jehovah Witness’s belief that Jesus came in 1914 is a lie.

Need I go on?

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.” Proverbs 19:9

Conclusion

I will end this with the admonition that Paul the Apostle made to the saints in Ephesus. “And put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbor: for we are members one of another.” Ephesians 4:24 and 25 

If any of the brethren are caught up in the religious lies of any of the false doctrines listed above I admonish you to cease from believing these doctrinal lies and learn the truth.

 

[1] Webster, Noah. “Pernicious.” American Dictionary of the English Language. 1828. Cincinnati, OH: C. J. Krehbiel

Company, 2000. 

[2] “Pernicious.” The American Heritage Dictionary. Fifth Edition. 2012

[3] “mortify” The American Heritage Dictionary. Fifth Edition. 2012

Edited by Alan
verse numbering Leviticus 23:18 to Deuteronomy 23:18
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Dogs - False Teachers in the Church

 

  1. Preterist Theology, Covenant Theology, Replacement Theology, a-millennialism, and a belief in a post-tribulation rapture, are destroying the hope of the soon return of Christ. And, is destroying the belief in the literal one thousand year of Christ and casting doubt on the veracity of the Book of Revelation. All of the above, ‘Theologies,’ are pernicious theologies.

  2. In addition to the destroying the belief in the literal 1000 year reign of Christ, the Preterist, Covenant Theology, and Replacement Theology teachers are also destroying the belief in the literal fulfillment Covenants of God, the Promises of God, and the prophetic prophesies of the Old Testament prophets. They are, ‘pernicious’ theological teachers.

 

​I lean the closest to Covenant Theology and I deny that accusation.

Being mean spirited just because we don't all agree is not very becoming one who says 'brother' to one's around here.

With all your additions to your studies to prove your 'view', yet leaving others views as 'false doctrine/teaching', is making what you say as teaching a study, just your opinion.

And this statement is totally unbecoming of a man of God to say here:

"If any of the brethren are caught up in the religious lies of any of the false doctrines listed above I admonish you to cease from believing these doctrinal lies and learn the truth."

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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​I lean the closest to Covenant Theology and I deny that accusation.

Being mean spirited just because we don't all agree is not very becoming one who says 'brother' to one's around here.

With all your additions to your studies to prove your 'view', yet leaving others views as 'false doctrine/teaching', is making what you say as teaching a study, just your opinion.

And this statement is totally unbecoming of a man of God to say here:

"If any of the brethren are caught up in the religious lies of any of the false doctrines listed above I admonish you to cease from believing these doctrinal lies and learn the truth."

I wasn't going to comment on that ridiculous post.  

All those on that list are only interpretations, and Alan accuses any who don't agree with his interpretation as tellers of falsehoods.

Actually, it is those they call Calvinists who are the main preachers of the gospel.  Round about here, they are the only ones who are not in Churches Together.  

 

 

  

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Dear Genevanpreacher and Invicta,

I am not being mean spirited. You are very judgemental and wrong. That is a statement designed to make others not believe the trurth as set forth in the post. I spoke the truth in love and in the spirit of the Lord Jesus Christ. Your efforts to beliettle me and the scriptual teaching I am setting forth in the study are not working.

Covenant Theology, Calvinism, and Replacement Theology are all erroneous doctrines and are destroying good churches through false teachers.

I said, and you quoted, the following statement, "If any of the brethren are caught up in the religious lies of any of the false doctrines listed above I admonish you to cease from believing these doctrinal lies and learn the truth." That statment is true and according to the scriptures. When a man teaches or believes a false doctrine he is teaching a lie and needs to repent or one day he will be held accountable for that lie. I will repeat what King Solomon wrote about lies.

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall not escape.” Proverbs 19:5

“A false witness shall not be unpunished, and he that speaketh lies shall perish.” Proverbs 19:9

 

All of the false doctrinal beliefs, lies, will one day be punished.

And, as a man of God, it is my duty and responsibity to expose doctrinal error. Jude 3, "Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the fiath which was once delieved unto the saints." To say that it is unbecoming for me to say so is also a bad  judgmental spirit and an effort on your behalf to belittle me in the front of the others reading this lesson.

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I will ask a question in another post as you recommend here:

Genevanpreacher,

I think it is best if we continue on with our current subject and discuss the issues you mentioned in another post.

Alan

​Thank you for putting up with my questioning of your comments. I appreciate not being blocked.

Anyone reading this subject will at least see that I, and a few others, do not follow the 'normal' teachings of modern churchianity, that lead to 'entertainment of the mind', rather than the preciseness of the scriptures themselves.

I know you will totally disagree with me, and I guess that does not matter in the least, for God teaches every man, as his ability to learn allows him.

God bless the remnant that are left, to have eyes to see, and ears to hear, and may he silence the teachings of fools, for as he said, few there be that find it.

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I don't know what has happened with the quoting in this post, but I  cant seem to fix it.

The post actually quoted in the above mess (edit: this is not how it displayed in the preview - the quote should be GP's last) is offensive, calling Alan a "follower of churchianity" and the like.

It is trying discredit Alan by the use of such phrases.

This is a personal attack with an attempt to be sly about it, and is yet another example of a total lack of respect shown by several in this thread. 

Trying to derail the thread from its purpose by attacking the author's credibility.

 

Edited by DaveW
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I don't know what has happened with the quoting in this post, but I  cant seem to fix it.

The post actually quoted in the above mess (edit: this is not how it displayed in the preview - the quote should be GP's last) is offensive, calling Alan a "follower of churchianity" and the like.

It is trying discredit Alan by the use of such phrases.

This is a personal attack with an attempt to be sly about it, and is yet another example of a total lack of respect shown by several in this thread. 

Trying to derail the thread from its purpose by attacking the author's credibility.

 

​That comes from one I have reported many times for personal attacks & lack of respect. 

-----------------

Regarding quoting - you will see from the "Everlasting Covenant" thread that it failed disastrously for me in a very long post. (Long because I was quoting Bro. Scott.)  I had to go back & find my post, copy it into my word processor & then copy into my reply. I have complained regularly to @BroMatt but had no replies. 

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​That comes from one I have reported many times for personal attacks & lack of respect. 

-----------------

Regarding quoting - you will see from the "Everlasting Covenant" thread that it failed disastrously for me in a very long post. (Long because I was quoting Bro. Scott.)  I had to go back & find my post, copy it into my word processor & then copy into my reply. I have complained regularly to @BroMatt but had no replies. 

Yep it does.

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Thank you for your question as I have been in deep thought and prayer what to do once this study is concluded.

Alan

​I would think any, or eventually all, of those studies could be beneficial.

Thank you for this study and your efforts to keep it on track and to not allow it to become derailed.

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As I said a couple of times previously, and as DaveW wrote, the scriptures plainly state that the Lord Jesus comes back as a, "thief." A thief comes in total secrecy and only until he has left with the valuables does any body know he was there.  Thank you DaveW.

As I wrote previoulsy, in 2 Thessalonians 2:11 states, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie."

In order to explain the disappearance (in the Rapture), the Anti-Christ will lie to the peoples of this earth why millions of people disapprered. The peoples of this world will believe the lie of the Anti-Christ. The Rapture, even after it occurs, will be a secret from the peoples of this world. God will allow the lie to be believed due to the ungodly sins of the peoples of this world. 

Reading 1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:4 would really help your understanding of the proper way to see the thief view:

 

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
And it continues into chapter 5 -
1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then *sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

*Sounds like they hear the 'thief' to me. 

 
 
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Would anybody like to bring out any other comments on the, "thief" aspect of the Coming of Christ as spoken by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-5:4.

Or, can anybody think of a biblical illustration of a thief that may be applicable to this situation? Let us try and just keep any comments or illustrations in this matter that may shed light on this subject and not chase too many rabbits.

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Only that the verses quoted above - and particularly the asterisk marked point - only supports the idea that it will not be known UNTIL THE ACTUAL EVENT.

Even a woman with child as used in the passage, knowns it is coming but not WHEN until it actually happens.

So yes, that passage does indeed help us to have a proper understanding of the theif concept - that the theif is not known until he exercises his craft.

Exactly what you and I  have already said, and what the Bible teaches.

Secret before, results seen afterwards.

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DaveW,

I'm in perfect agreement. Thank you John Young for your agreement with DaveW also and your help in this study.

Brethren,

Now, let's get back with the discussion on the last lesson, Revelation 22:14 and 15, "The Tree of Life," in verse 14 and the listing of the ungodly attributes of the lost (and the flesh), in verse 15. Any further thoughts, or areas of discussion, on the items that I pointed out in these two verses?

Additional Prophetical Information on "Dogs."

One thing that I would like to add to my comments on "dogs,"  (false teachers of false doctrines) on 2 Peter 2:1-22.

When the Lord Jesus was on the cross of Calvary, the lost relgious leaders of Israel, (the Pharisees, the scribes and elders), derided and mocked the Lord Jesus. Since the false teachers could not find fault with the Lord Jesus they derided Him in order to belittle and discredit Him in front of others. "They return at evening: they make a noise like a dog, and go round about the city. Behold, they belch out with mouth: swords are in their lips: for who, say they, doth hear." Psalm 59:6 & 7. The criticism of false teachers against the the Lord Jesus, and any man of God, has never changed. Their criticisms are like the belching of a dog: never ceasing, always complaining and finding fault and yapping at every opportunity.

This was in fulfilment of the prophecy of Psalm 22:1-20 In Psalm 22: 16 and 20 these false teachers are referred to as, "strong bulls of Bashan," and, " a roaring lion," and finally, "dogs," exactly as we see in 2 Peter 2 refers to them.

The, "strong bulls of Bashan, " and the, "roaring lion," is directly correlated to the, "brute beasts," in 2 Peter 2:12

"For dogs, have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet." Psalm 22:16

"Deliver my soul from the sword; my darling from the power of the dog." Psalm 22:20

Therefore, if a saint wants to know more about, "false teachers," a close look at Psalm 22 and 2 Peter 2 will help enlighten the eyes of their understanding.

Alan

 

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Only that the verses quoted above - and particularly the asterisk marked point - only supports the idea that it will not be known UNTIL THE ACTUAL EVENT.

Even a woman with child as used in the passage, knowns it is coming but not WHEN until it actually happens.

So yes, that passage does indeed help us to have a proper understanding of the theif concept - that the theif is not known until he exercises his craft.

Exactly what you and I  have already said, and what the Bible teaches.

Secret before, results seen afterwards.

If this is what you have been saying, and I disagree it is, why would there be a lie to cover what happened?

Sudden destruction?

They will know it is Jesus.

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As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the translation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven without dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some churches are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-Christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

Edited by Alan
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As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the tranlsation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven with out dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some church are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

Most pre-trib rapture teachers/preachers say there will be a large number of people who know what happened. Typically they claim it will be those who were churched but unsaved and those who had heard of the rapture prior to the event.

Most every book I've read and every movie I've seen on this topic from the pre-trib rapture position take this view too.

At the same time, most also teach the anti-christ will put forth a convincing lie what happened.

Of course, most of these assume multiple millions will be raptured but the only way such numbers could be true is if they count everyone who calls themselves a Christian being raptured; including Catholics, Mormons and all church members of every denomination. Either that or there would have to be hundreds of millions of under the radar Christians that will be raptured but even tho they are under cover Christians, somehow folks will know they were Christians (??).

There are actually a lot of odd and conflicting teachings out there on this.

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Brethren,

In order to keep on the proper flow of this study, and not get side-tracked, let us just comment on the current lesson and not dwell on previous lessons as we are just re-hashing previous discussions. The exception to this polite reminder is to new individuals who have not commented on previous lessons. As we do have a lot of viewers who have not commented so far, I just want you to know that we do welcome your comments and or areas of discussion. 

I am excited as we near the conclusion of this study in Revelation chapter 19-22. Only three more lessons to go! Thus far it I have personally enjoyed the study, the questions, the discussions and I am expecting the study to end on an enjoyable note among the brethren. I want to thank all of you.

 

Alan

 

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As I mentioned before, the Coming of Christ is like the tranlsation of Enoch. After God took him into heaven with out dying the scriptures plainly states that the people behind did not know  what happened.

Thus, when the Lord comes for the church (only the saved folks, a lot of folks attending some church are not saved), the world will not know what happened and the anti-christ will tell a lie; and that lie will be believed. Then the 7 Year Tribulation starts as recorded in Revelation 6-19

As I have posted the above verses from 1 Thessalonians, and you seem to 'push it aside', what about these verses from 2 Thessalonians which explain the "sudden destruction" that "commeth upon them" :

 

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.
Edited by Genevanpreacher
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We are have already discussed this point of the Coming of Christ a few times and both of us (apparently), are not going to change our beliefs so in my opinion all we are doing is wasting time and preventing others viewers from discussing topics they deem more important.

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We are have already discussed this point of the Coming of Christ a few times and both of us (apparently), are not going to change our beliefs so in my opinion all we are doing is wasting time and preventing others viewers from discussing topics they deem more important.

So you don't know an answer? Or u just wanna move on?

I do not always have time to read every post, so if you have answered this set of verses before - sorry. It seems important to me. As the teaching you have espoused seems to hinge on many views of how a verse is found in context.

By the way - I am not trying to change your beliefs, I am trying to show your beliefs as not true to God's word to others who want scriptural support for real beliefs.

Just as you are about me.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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Genevanpreacher,

I have already explained the scriptual position, and correct belief,of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ as depicted 1 Thessalonians 5:13-18 and Revelation 19:11-21 and Revelation 1:7. To believe otherwise in contrary to scripture and heretical. You have not shown one verse that proves otherwise.

To my very patient viewers. Please do not let the posts of Genevanpreacher, and on previous occasions, Covenanter, prevent you from enjoying this study.  Due to his unscriptual beliefs he (they) have espoused they are attempting to derail the conclusion of this thread. So, please bear with me as we discuss the remaining three lessons.

One of the reasons why God allows false teachers in the churches, and on good independent Baptist forums, is for the student of scripture to know truth from error and the manifestation of false teachers. The Apostle Paul wrote, "For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."  1 Corinthians 11:19 In this case, through the correct, and scriptural teaching of this study, we have discovered the heretical beliefs of: the Book of Revelation being symbolic, or, allegorical, and the a-millennial belief is heretical.

Also, we have scripturally proved that the Judgment Seat of Christ is before Revelation chapter 5, the Book of Revelation is literal, the time of Jacob's Trouble is a literal 7 year Tribulation Period, and the literal 1,000 Year Reign of Christ.

Edited by Alan
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So you don't know an answer? Or u just wanna move on?

I do not always have time to read every post, so if you have answered this set of verses before - sorry. It seems important to me. As the teaching you have espoused seems to hinge on many views of how a verse is found in context.

By the way - I am not trying to change your beliefs, I am trying to show your beliefs as not true to God's word to others who want scriptural support for real beliefs.

Just as you are about me.

Genevanpreacher,

I have already explained the scriptual position, and correct belief,of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ as depicted 1 Thessalonians 5:13-18 and Revelation 19:11-21 and Revelation 1:7. To believe otherwise in contrary to scripture and heretical. You have not shown one verse that proves otherwise.

I agree with Russ (GM) in that you CLAIM to hold a Scriptural position & are extremely offensive in dismissing those who teach other Biblical positions (such as Covenant Theology, & Amillennialism) as "dogs." You send courteous PMs to us, & then public denounce us. 

And NO! You have not "explained the  scriptural position, and correct belief,of the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ" but given your opinion, which is certainly open to challenge by the "Bereans" on the forum. 

 

 

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Brethren,

The above posts by Genevanpreacher and Covenanter are an attempt to derail this study and should be ignored.

The next lesson will be upoaded in a day or two.

I want to express my sincere thanks to the many viewers that have patiently stood behind me and the study.

Alan

 

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