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Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.


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*I will be looking in and commenting when I can, according to you personal invitation Alan -

"Dear Brother,

I do hope that all is well with  you and with your family.

I just wanted to let you know that I do appreciate your participation in the study on the Book of Revelation. Even though we may not agree on everything I still appreciate your comments and areas of discussion. Currently we are studying two important topics: the Second Coming and the Judgment Seat of Christ. I think I know your beliefs on the Second Coming fairly well but I am not sure about your interperetation on the Judgment Seat of Christ. If you would like to bring out your comments, or areas of discussion, we would appreciate it.

God bless.

Alan"

 

*To which I later commented with this thought -

 

"I belittled you by disagreeing with your teaching being accurate.

You belittled me by saying my belief was not accurate.

Isn't that a bit silly? We both disagree because we both see scripture from different perspectives.

You see from a 'traditional' perspective that is normally taught in most denominations, whether you believe it or not. As proof - just about every denomination (protestant type) believes Revelation the way you are teaching. Not that that makes it wrong in itself, but I have noticed when it comes to prophecy and Israel covenants, EVERY christian group eats up the entertainment side of the view you teach. It is a common teaching. Always taught that way in colleges and bible schools around, mostly, our country. I am not saying that I am perfect in knowledge nor perfect in spirit, but I learned my 'view' by staying out of the type of teaching that men have conjured up over the past century or so.

Men, (not necessarily you yourself), have drawn together various scriptures to 'enlarge' their wisdom, so that other men who followed would think they were 'bigger in God's eyes' and have given them selves 'doctorates' and degrees to make themselves some wise men. Liberal minded men have become our mentors and taught false doctrines to keep their titles clear and owned, for them to spread it around that they are the one's that truly understand God's word and the common man just can't know it like them. And they formed our colleges and seminaries that trained other men the same teachings. Those teachings are now imbibed into our local churches through them. Radio, TV, and videos and cassettes have enebriated christianity with these doctrines, so that when someone teaches differently, why they MUST be heretics and blasphemers.

That which is good and true is now taught as bad and false.

The scriptures say that there will be a famine of the word of God - that famine is here and now."

 

I appreciate the invite and have commented using scripture to which you deny the validity of. 

Thanks.

Edited by Genevanpreacher
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Thank you for letting every one know that I invited you, even though we may disagree, and other brethren, to have a polite discussion and not a heated debate. I was sincere in my personal messages and not antagonistic.

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Alan 

In a previous post you said you had already shown that the separation of Christians as before Rev 5.  Well I have bee reading up to Rev 5 and I can not find it.  Please can you show me where you think it is?

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Genevanpreacher,

Thank you for letting everyone know that I invited you in a private message: knowing even though we may disagree, as other brethren disagree, it is best if to have a polite discussion and not a heated debate, nor a name-calling series of posts.

Invicta,

As this study did not include Revelation chapter 1-5 I was not able to present a full interpretation of that section of scripture. I did briefly touch upon that subject in my lesson on Revelation 19:11-16. Here is that link: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=1 I will somewhat add to that lesson.

I will try to briefly answer your question why I believe the coming of Christ for the Church (commonly, and hereafter, called the Rapture) occurs just before the start of the Tribulation Period in Revelation 6:1 Please bear in mind that the words of the Lord Jesus in Revelation 1: 11-3:22 is specifically dealing with the saints in the Church Age. In this passage we have specific promises given to the seven different churches contained within the Church Age.

Promises given to the Church Age Saints.

The Lord Jesus plainly states, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Revelation 3:22 the promises, admonitions, blessings and curses, given to the 7 churches in Asia are given, in some degree, but not in every particular, to every Church Age saint.

1. In all the ages, especially the Church Age, Christians have endured persecution and tribulation; Please note Revelation 2:9 and 10. In fact, Paul said that we glory in times of tribulation, Romans 5:3;8:35. See also Ephesians 3:13, Acts 14:22 and 2 Thessalonians 1:4; Revelation 1:9 

2. The Tribulation Period in Revelation is called the, "... great tribulation..." and is obviously a separate time of tribulation separate from the ordinary times of tribulation. Please note the following prophecy in Revelation 2:22, "Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds."

This is obviously referring to spiritual adultery and a direct reference to Revelation chapter 17. Obviously, the saints in the Church Age undergo tribulation, but they do not undergo, "great tribulation." There is a clear and unmistakable distinction.

3. The Apostle John, is asking who the people were in white robes praising the Lord in Revelation 7:1-13, the angel replies, "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said unto me, these are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Revelation 7:14 By the context, it is very obvious that these are not Church Age saints but saints that were converted through the ministry of the 144,000 Jewish evangelists from the 12 tribes of Israel. Unless you believe like the Jehovah's Witness', these are saints from the time of, "...great tribulation..." Again, the scriptures differentiate between the times of tribulation and great tribulation.

4. Every saint in the church age has this very specific promise, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Revelation 3:10 The Church Age saints will not go through the time of tribulation on the earth.

The 7 Year Tribulation Period is a time of Great Tribulation and the

time of God's Wrath on the Earth.

In a prophecy concerning the end times, "...the great day of the LORD..."  and not just the wrath upon the nation of Israel for their sins, the prophet Zephaniah wrote, "The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry bitterly. That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day clouds and think darkness." Zephaniah 1:14 and 15 According to the prophecy of the apostle James in James 5:1-7 that prophecy is still future and not regulated to the past. See also Jeremiah 10:10; Ezekiel 7:19; Micah 5:15, "And I will execute vengeance in anger and fury upon the heathen, such as they have not heard."

The Lord Jesus, in an obvious reference to the time of the end days, and in an obvious fulfillment of, "...the great day of the LORD..." said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Matthew 24:22 This is a direct reference to the great tribulation period. To regulate this prophecy of the Lord Jesus to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. is in total and complete error and an injustice to the plain words of the Lord Jesus.

Jerusalem, and the rest of Israel was destroyed, and not the world, and greater acts of destruction have occurred in many countries that far surpassed the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A. D. To believe that Jesus prophesied of the destruction in  70 A.D. is unbelief in the literal fulfillment of the words of the Lord Jesus.

The Church will not experience God's Wrath on the Earth.

Inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul wrote:

          "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." 1 Thessalonians 3:4 Church Age saints suffer tribulation.

          "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:9 The Church Age saint will not see the wrath of God in Hell nor on the Earth. But, we have obtained salvation from spiritual wrath in hell and physical salvation from the time of the  wrath of God on the earth.   

The Apostle John is a Type of the Church.

Hosea 12:10, "I have also spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitude's, by the ministry of the prophets." The Apostle John is a New Testament prophet. God, the Lord Jesus, spoke to John and gave him visions and similitude's.

The Apostle John is a type of the Rapture of the Church. After the Lord Jesus gave the great discourse on the 7 churches, John was, "caught up,"into heaven just as He is going to call us (the Church) into heaven. "After this, I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." Revelation 4:1 

My dearly beloved brethren, John experienced what we will experience when the Lord Jesus calls us home in the rapture as written by Paul the Apostle in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Alan

Edited by Alan
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Alan wrote: "Thank you for letting everyone know that I invited you in a private message: knowing even though we may disagree, as other brethren disagree, it is best if to have a polite discussion and not a heated debate, nor a name-calling series of posts."

I've responded to you in a PM - which I shared in a separate conversation with Invicta & Geneva. It's time to start a separate thread where we can have an open discussion & explore contrary views.

I don't mind other people knowing I have private conversations.

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Covenanter,

Thank you for your, very lengthy, private message. Included in your private message (which was very lengthy), was a lot of material from the beliefs of the King James Version translators, the beliefs of the Reformers, and the historical, "39 Articles of Confession of Faith," (of which I am not familiar with), and the Jewish Encyclopedia that you mentioned ( of which I am not very knowledgeable). 

Along with the above historical material I need to study, I will need to review why you belittled the Scofield Reference Bible, the fundamentalist Colleges in the United States, and the comments of Matthew Henry in his commentary on Revelation 20. I would suggest the next time you belittle the Scofield Reference Bible that you give me specific notes that you consider in error. And, the next time you belittle, "the fundamentalist Bible colleges of America," that you give me specific examples. Maybe some of the brethren on OnLine Baptist graduated from one of them and they can either agree or disagree with you. If you start the new thread please include specific, "fundamental Bible colleges,' that are in doctrinal error.

Quite frankly, the material you asked me to study is a huge undertaking that is not suitable for this thread. Also, I am an independent, fundamental, Bible believing Baptist. You have not only in your private messages belittled me (several times in several different ways), and belittled the churches that I attend that we may not be in agreement in much of what you wrote. Probably, a lot of the brethren would also find your private message to me offensive also. 

I need to study the material that you mentioned in the private messenger more fully before I answer. "The heart of the righteous studieth to answer: but the mouth of the wicked poureth out evil things." Proverbs 15:28

In conclusion, since you mentioned in your private message that am need of further guidance as I am a person of little knowledge, offensive, and other less desirable character traits, and, that you asked Genevanpreacher, and Invicta to be included in our conversations. I am not worthy enough to debate you, Genevanpreacher, or Invicta. So, I must forbear.

Alan

Brethren,

Thank you for your patience. I had to temporarily delay uploading the next lesson due to some studying and replying to other messages. Looking forward to the next lesson as soon as I can finish it. If there are any other comments, from individuals that would like to have uplifting discussions, please tell us your comments.

I am very, very thankful for the huge amount of the brethren viewing these lessons. You have encouraged my heart to finish.

Alan

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Rapture is from the Latin translation of "caught up" in 1 Thessalonian 4:17

Hello Eric

The English word might be from the Latin but in the Scripture it is a Greek word 'arpazwharpazo har-pad'-zo

from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).'

The Greek word is used 14 times in the New Testament  Mt 11:12; 13:19; Joh 6:15; 10:12,28-29; Ac 8:39; 23:10; 2Co 12:2,4; 1Th 4:17; Jude 1:23; Re 12:5

Mt 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

Joh 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take him by force, to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

Joh 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

Joh 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Joh 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Ac 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

Ac 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

2Co 12:4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

Re 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

According to Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: we are presently seated above the sky. So perhaps we were caught up at our conversion, we were translated in the twinkle of an eye in the midst of death and darkness. Although I do tend to think there will be a rapture for probably the remnant of Jews at atmageddon, because they are to be grafted back in. Rom 11. so they will be the last of the church to remain on earth, but flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom so I tend to think it will fall to the ground or be uncreated when everything element passes away by fire.

 

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.....The Church will not experience God's Wrath on the Earth.

Inspired by the Holy Spirit, the Apostle Paul wrote:

          "For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know." 1 Thessalonians 3:4 Church Age saints suffer tribulation.

          "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thessalonians 5:9 The Church Age saint will not see the wrath of God in Hell nor on the Earth. But, we have obtained salvation from spiritual wrath in hell and physical salvation from the time of the  wrath of God on the earth......

 

Alan

Hello Allan, I hope you don't mind me giving my view on this, the reason I don't do alot of this type of study is because there is different ways of constructing the verses together and almost every point is debatable. on any eschatology study. 1The 5:9 could be read like 'For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation..' but if we don't heed the previous verse then even though we are not appointed to wrath we nonetheless we will get some wrath , but it does also say that if we are judged by Christ it is in order that we should not be condemned with the world 1Cor 11. we are exhorted to Stand in the day of Evil.

1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.
1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

So we will be in the midst of great tribulation, but it should not harm us. we should be saved out of it, if we keep faithfull,  endure till the end we will be saved from the wrath on earth. like the second death won't harm us, because our name was found in the Lambs book of life.

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