Prayer: Kent Hovind in Court Today, March 2

[heartstrings]

The Bible says "pay tribute". I can understand that. 1 Peter 2:6

[Alan]

Brethren, I am fully aware that Paul was unjustly put into prison. The comparison of Paul the Apostle and situation with Kent Hovind is not correct. Paul was put in prison for preaching the gospel. Not one instance in the New Testament does it say that Paul did anything unlawfully. To compare Paul with Kent is erroneous and  an attempt to justify Kents actions as persecution. Kent is being persecuted for his unlawful actions not for preaching the gospel. 

Yes I am acutley aware that governments, our government, is full of unbelievers that are looking for a legal fight with believers. Kent Hovind brought all of these legal problems upon himself. Kent is tax protestor that deliberately disobeyed the Laws of the US Government.

Kent's employees were employees; not contractors. Kent used the contractor ruse to try and get out of paying taxes.  The employees were required to punch a time clock just like an employee at any other business. If they did not work they did not get paid. They were not contractors.

Brethren to use 1 Corinthians 6:6, "But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before unbelievers." and say that the Hortons were wrong is erroneounous. This is a miss-application of the scriptures. The Hortons did not take Kent to court. The IRS brought the lawsusit against Kent. To blame the Hortons for Kents transgressons, and to mis-use 1 Corinthians 6:6, is wrong, slanderous, and not of the Lord.

I fully understand that Kent is not a dangerous criminal. And I understand the unlawful deeds of Willy Nelson,  Al Shartpton, and other false ministers of the gospel, are not being taken to court and severely punished like Kent Hovind. That is not the problem. One day they will be brought to the the Court of Heaven. What these ungodly men did, and got away with, does not justify Kent, or any other saint, deliberately flounting and disobeying the IRS tax laws.  When we are judged by the Lord Jesus Christ we will have to give account of our own sins. Kent has to stand before the bar of justice on this earth and then before the Judgment Bar in heaven for his own sins and judged accordingly.

I taught my children that just because other people sin it is not an excuse for you to sin. I also taught them that they would be punished for their own mis-deeds. And that just because other people were not caught is no excuse for them to do mis-deeds. Was I in error? Is Kent excused from this teaching? Am I at fault with teaching this to my children? Do I need to apologize to my children?

My previous post stands. 

 

[Ukulelemike]

The Bible says "pay tribute". I can understand that. 1 Peter 2:6

​Tribute: Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

TRIB'UTE, n. [L. tributum, from tribuo, to give, bestow or divide.]
1. An annual or stated sum of money or other valuable thing, paid by one prince or nation to another, either as an acknowledgment of submission, or as the price of peace and protection, or by virtue of some treaty. The Romans made all their conquered countries pay tribute, as do the Turks at this day; and in some countries the tribute is paid in children.
 

Tribute is what a conquered nation pays the conquering nation. That was what Jesus talked about when he said to render unto Caesar what was Caesar's. It was not a tax, it was tribute. We do not live in a nation that has been conquered by another nation, hence, we don't pay tribute. This is why the Jews so hated the publicans-they weren't tax collectors as they are often descirbed, they collected tribute to be paid to Rome, and so were seen as traitors to their people.

Neither myself, nor Kent Hovind, are against paying taxes. Hovind has said so on numerous occasions-we should all pay the taxes we owe. Our problem comes when the government wants money for taxes that we don't owe. I do not pay Social Security or Medicare-well, I pay it, but I request it back with the rest of my return at the end of the year. Some friends have called me a tax dodger for it. However, I haven't done anything wrong-its my money, I just choose to invest it in something other than the government. And all I do is add it to my money to be returned, in writing, clearly stating that I am claiming SS and medicare, and it is returned to me. No chickanery. Completely legal.

The IRS has a tax code, and therein are the rules of what Americans owe for taxes. But no one reads it, no one learns what they owe, we just march ahead and pay what we think we owe, and of course neither the IRS nor the government say anything because its free money to them. Kent Hovind did what was his right to do, he just got poor advice on how to do it. It could have been very easily handled had the IRS been willing to work with him, clarify the rules, and give him opporunity to make it right, which I believe he would have, but the IRS saw their opportunity, acted hard and fast, and destroyed him. The judge in the case told him that his crime was worse than rape-right in the court. There are numerous witnesses to it, who were in the court when she said it, though when the transcripts came out, it had been deleted.

I guess my biggest point is, we are so quick, as believers to listen to the IRS and the government, the people benefitting from the destruction of others, who are getting all the money and have al the power, and so quick to judge against brethern with much fruit in their eternal accounts, that it is shocking. None of this was done in hiding, in the shadows. The information is there for anyone willing to research it. yet we assume the believer was wrong, and the government is right. That's pretty sad. That's from too much TV.

By the way, the fact that he was found guilty of one count of contempt of court on the original 2007 ruling against him, even though, according to his sentencing, nothing was ever said or intimated that he could not make a legal challenge on the properties, and the jury was deadlocked on all the other charges, telling me that so much unrelated and contradictory evidence was given so as to confuse the jury, says to me a lot about the new charges. It was just a way to keep him in prison longer.

I'm going to dcease posting on this thread, as I can see the roots of contentiousness in myself as I talk about it. When the sentencing phase comes up, I'll make a short post update, and leave it at that. I apologize if I have wronged or offended anyone.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Ukulelemike

[heartstrings]

​Tribute: Webster's 1828 Dictionary:

TRIB'UTE, n. [L. tributum, from tribuo, to give, bestow or divide.]
1. An annual or stated sum of money or other valuable thing, paid by one prince or nation to another, either as an acknowledgment of submission, or as the price of peace and protection, or by virtue of some treaty. The Romans made all their conquered countries pay tribute, as do the Turks at this day; and in some countries the tribute is paid in children.
 

Tribute is what a conquered nation pays the conquering nation. That was what Jesus talked about when he said to render unto Caesar what was Caesar's. It was not a tax, it was tribute. We do not live in a nation that has been conquered by another nation, hence, we don't pay tribute. This is why the Jews so hated the publicans-they weren't tax collectors as they are often descirbed, they collected tribute to be paid to Rome, and so were seen as traitors to their people.

Neither myself, nor Kent Hovind, are against paying taxes. Hovind has said so on numerous occasions-we should all pay the taxes we owe. Our problem comes when the government wants money for taxes that we don't owe. I do not pay Social Security or Medicare-well, I pay it, but I request it back with the rest of my return at the end of the year. Some friends have called me a tax dodger for it. However, I haven't done anything wrong-its my money, I just choose to invest it in something other than the government. And all I do is add it to my money to be returned, in writing, clearly stating that I am claiming SS and medicare, and it is returned to me. No chickanery. Completely legal.

The IRS has a tax code, and therein are the rules of what Americans owe for taxes. But no one reads it, no one learns what they owe, we just march ahead and pay what we think we owe, and of course neither the IRS nor the government say anything because its free money to them. Kent Hovind did what was his right to do, he just got poor advice on how to do it. It could have been very easily handled had the IRS been willing to work with him, clarify the rules, and give him opporunity to make it right, which I believe he would have, but the IRS saw their opportunity, acted hard and fast, and destroyed him. The judge in the case told him that his crime was worse than rape-right in the court. There are numerous witnesses to it, who were in the court when she said it, though when the transcripts came out, it had been deleted.

I guess my biggest point is, we are so quick, as believers to listen to the IRS and the government, the people benefitting from the destruction of others, who are getting all the money and have al the power, and so quick to judge against brethern with much fruit in their eternal accounts, that it is shocking. None of this was done in hiding, in the shadows. The information is there for anyone willing to research it. yet we assume the believer was wrong, and the government is right. That's pretty sad. That's from too much TV.

By the way, the fact that he was found guilty of one count of contempt of court on the original 2007 ruling against him, even though, according to his sentencing, nothing was ever said or intimated that he could not make a legal challenge on the properties, and the jury was deadlocked on all the other charges, telling me that so much unrelated and contradictory evidence was given so as to confuse the jury, says to me a lot about the new charges. It was just a way to keep him in prison longer.

I'm going to dcease posting on this thread, as I can see the roots of contentiousness in myself as I talk about it. When the sentencing phase comes up, I'll make a short post update, and leave it at that. I apologize if I have wronged or offended anyone.

​

[heartstrings]

Nobody said the government was right. I disagree with their practices as well. I think property taxes and inheritance taxes are wrong too and I'm told that our government was originally supposed to levy only a "consumption tax" (sales tax). But, sadly, we no longer have the patriotic, moral, and just government which began back in 1776. Now we have a very corrupt one. Nevertheless, Romans 13 still stands and it simply says to be subject to the "higher powers" and if you read on down to verses 6 and 7 it not only says to "pay tribute" but also calls them "ministers of God". Now, personally, I could never understand how a ruthless dictator like "Kim Jong Un" could be a minister of God in the case of North Korea, but if you put it into context for them, he IS their "higher power" too. Anyway, the "tribute" of Romans 13 was to be paid to the "minister of God/higher power who beareth the sword". In our case, the State and and Federal Government qualify.

[Ukulelemike]

Nobody said the government was right. I disagree with their practices as well. I think property taxes and inheritance taxes are wrong too and I'm told that our government was originally supposed to levy only a "consumption tax" (sales tax). But, sadly, we no longer have the patriotic, moral, and just government which began back in 1776. Now we have a very corrupt one. Nevertheless, Romans 13 still stands and it simply says to be subject to the "higher powers" and if you read on down to verses 6 and 7 it not only says to "pay tribute" but also calls them "ministers of God". Now, personally, I could never understand how a ruthless dictator like "Kim Jong Un" could be a minister of God in the case of North Korea, but if you put it into context for them, he IS their "higher power" too. Anyway, the "tribute" of Romans 13 was to be paid to the "minister of God/higher power who beareth the sword". In our case, the State and and Federal Government qualify.

​I agree with all you say here. However you miss the point that what they say we owe in taxes is actually what we owe in taxes. Its a matter of learning the tax codes and laws, as well as what the constitution allows. We are obligated to follow all right laws and ordinances of men, insofar as they are not against the word of God, or they are not against our own laws. Its like all the exewcutive orders our current president signs-he has the legal right to make executive orders, but those are not meant to take the place of constitutionally-passed laws. There are limits on what he is allowed to do. Like, he cannot make an EO that disagrees with current law-that's illegal, and as such, we are not subject to it: this is why he has not yet signed his executive amnesty order-because he knows he really can't do it. So he won't, then he will blame the republicans for not letting him do it, and they are the bad guys.

our government is made to follow certain things, the Constitution, first and foremost, and that's where we start in our learning. There are actually two amendments that concern taxing, and interestingly, the disagree with one another. I don't remember the numbers off the top of my head, but I know they passed the second, (though it is questionable as to whether it was legally passed or not), while leaving the first in place, and we are taxed under the second. Thats actually not constitutionally legal, for two amendments to be there that oppose each other-isn't suppose to work that way. The first should have been removed, or itself amended, but they didn't. I will get more facts on it later. I don't want to make wild claims I can't back up.

[Ukulelemike]

All this being said, I do kind of think that Hovind tied his horse to maybe the wrong tree-if he was to suffer, it should have been clearly for his faith, not for his American Citizen status. I think when it gets right down to it, we have bigger fish to fry. Though I agree with his basic issue on taxes, and I DO believe they have used it to shut him up and put him away because he effectively deals with creation, yet he DID given them the ammunition they needed.