Some good advice

[John81]

 

 

 

Putin is terrified of NATO coming to another of Russia's borders.  When The cold war ended, Russia was assured that NATO would not extend into the former Soviet states.  That assurance was broken.  

The previous Ukrainian president promised to consider the EU, but Russia put him to change his mind and to keep their alignment with Russia.  Most of the people wanted closer ties with the EU and so overthrew the president. Russia then panicked on took back the Crimea.

I was given to Unkraine by Kruschev for some reason or another.

The West then put sanctions on Russia, instead of speaking to him.  Sanctions  never work, and in this case just riled Putin.  It has probably caused more problems to us as a number of our farmers have gone out of business as Russia now does not buy their produce.

 

 

​The legally, democratically elected president of Ukraine was elected with it known he favored the Russian economic deal over the EU deal but he was willing to consider a better EU deal if the EU offered one. The people of Ukraine voted him in as president. The Russians offered a better deal than the EU, both in terms of short and long term benefits for Ukraine so the president of Ukraine accepted the Russian offer.

American and German agents went to work supporting and pushing Ukrainian nazis, anarchists, and various anti-semitic groups into rioting with threats of revolution. It was hoped the Ukrainian president would see the hand of American and the EU against him and in fear repudiate his deal with Russia and agree to the lesser EU offer. This didn't happen, things quickly got out of control of the American and German agents, and real turmoil and near civil war erupted.

The fact Russia only set forth to secure their naval base in Crimea, rather than sending their army in to either take control of the eastern, mostly Russian, area of Ukraine; or invade all of Ukraine in the name of stopping the civil war, makes it very clear this mess isn't something Russia wanted and expansionism isn't something Russia is interested in.

Putin attempted to speak directly with the West but was rebuffed; mostly because of Obama's hatred for Putin. Sanctions only make matters worse, and as you say they don't work, but they do make Obama feel self-righteous.

This mess is another in the long list of examples of problems coming about due to power nations interfering in the internal affairs of less powerful nations for the sake of attempting to dominate the international chess board.

[ThePilgrim]

John 81,

 All they are asking is for militaty hardware to defend themselves.  They are not asking for troops. 

 

I remember the Korean War.  It was a war we could not win (any arguments about how we could've or should've are totally irrevelent, we didn't win it) and we still have thousands of troops there.

​I remember Vietnam.  I remember when we sent Green Berets there as advisers to help train the Vietnamese army.  I remember how that eventually was not enough men and we had to send more, and more, and more.  I remember how we lost the war (any arguments about how we could've or should've are totally irrevelent, we didn't win it).

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, all for what?  What did we gain except hatred.

Now comes Ukraine.  A war in which we have already supplied arms and advisers.  It is the same slippery slope as always.  if we continue along the same course as usual we will end up sending troops (but not until plenty of Ukrainian cannon fodder has been used up).  

As has already been explained by John the Russian leadership is not a bunch of commies but they are Russians.  

 

[Alan]

Putin is a Communist Tyrant and the Ukranians are fighting the communist government from Russia with Seperaist proxies.

Most of the military hardware supplied to the Ukraine government has been blankets, medical supplies and other non-letal aid. The sanctions are a half-hearted attempt by a spineless president to stop a determined communist agressor. The only thing that will stop Putin is enough lethal aid to Ukraine.

Besides moral support, and possbily satellite intel, I do not think nobody, me included, should put US troops on the ground.

Putin is a brutal, deceiving, tyrant. Our forefathers fought the Reveolutionary War to get rid of tyrants. The only way to defeat a tyrant is with a superior armed force with a determined leader. 

 

 

[ThePilgrim]

Our forefathers fought the Reveolutionary War to get rid of tyrants.

The days when we had no tyrants  in America are fast disappearing into the past. 

As far as the discussion of commie or not commie appears to be a waste of time and type.  I will move on.  

[John81]

As has been reported on, with source material support, it's likely Obama is far more a tyrant than Putin and is responsible for more deaths, including civilians, than Putin. Obama has waged a continuous drone war since he took office, using drones for kill missions far more than his predecessor ever did. While the media would report upon incidences when a drone killed civilians when Bush was in office, they have not done so while Obama has been in office and he has used drones to strike targets at weddings, funerals, family gatherings, all of which involve many civilians.

Obama has dictated to and attempted to reshape the Middle East, to dismal effect. Putin hasn't engaged in this. Obama has used the power of the government to spy upon his opponents, manipulate the tax system, declare illegals to be legal, to stir racial strife, to force unconstitutional "health care" upon the country, to push for full, open homosexual "rights" and "marriage". Putin put in place laws to protect children from being adopted by homosexual "couples" and to end the promotion of homosexuality as normal.

Putin has consistently shared intelligence information on known terrorists with Obama who dismissively ignores it because it comes from Putin. It's possible the bombing at the Boston Marathon could have been avoided were it not Obama ordering terrorist intel from Putin to be ignored.

Putin is no saint, he's as lost and serving the devil in some way as is Obama and probably all world leaders. Even so, Putin isn't a communist, he isn't a tyrant, he isn't a threat to America. The mess in Ukraine is on the hands of prideful Obama and Merkle.

Putin has attempted to reach out to Obama for serious talks, for cooperation in the war on terror, offering everything from intelligence to military support yet has been snubbed at every turn throughout Obama's presidency. Putin is far more patient than I would have been with Obama.

[John81]

I remember the Korean War.  It was a war we could not win (any arguments about how we could've or should've are totally irrevelent, we didn't win it) and we still have thousands of troops there.

​I remember Vietnam.  I remember when we sent Green Berets there as advisers to help train the Vietnamese army.  I remember how that eventually was not enough men and we had to send more, and more, and more.  I remember how we lost the war (any arguments about how we could've or should've are totally irrevelent, we didn't win it).

Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, all for what?  What did we gain except hatred.

Now comes Ukraine.  A war in which we have already supplied arms and advisers.  It is the same slippery slope as always.  if we continue along the same course as usual we will end up sending troops (but not until plenty of Ukrainian cannon fodder has been used up).  

As has already been explained by John the Russian leadership is not a bunch of commies but they are Russians.  

 

​General MacArthur had a plan that would win the Korean War but the president wouldn't allow it. Instead, the American government allowed the war to drag on and end with things worse than they began.

Many warned America shouldn't get involved in Vietnam yet LBJ decided to plunge in head first. Yet rather than actually pursue victory they created "rules of engagement" which hamstrung our forces while giving the enemy tremendous advantages. Another war fought to a conclusion worse than the beginning.

When the Korean War began it was declared if America didn't win, all of Asia would fall to the communists. Somehow they decided a stalemate that weakened us was good enough. Then they said if Vietnam fell all of Asia would fall to the communists. Again America bailed, this time with the whole country in communist hands, and yet once again Asia didn't fall to the communists.

America waged two unwise wars with Saddam, totally ruining the balance of power in the Middle East, opening the doors for sectarian fighting, the revival of tribal and inter-Islamic conflicts, and rushes to fill power vacuums. Further flawed approaches in Afghanistan, Libya, and with Egypt, Syria, Iran, and dealings with Israel/Pals, has made things much worse than before.

When our leaders, or other leaders, try to play God and manipulate and mold the world to their desires, further trouble is the result.

[Alan]

Pilgram,

I do agree with you that our discussions are not edifying, nor fruitful, enough to continue.

John 81,

I agree with you on two important points:

1. Obama is a tyrant. Probably one of the worst presidents America has ever had. He is leading this country into economic, military, and social chaos. If our country does not change course we will become a socialist, third world, or communist country.

2. LBJ made some horrific terrible decisions that did hamsting our military forces. As an Vietnam veteran I can personally agree, and vouch, for your statement and line of reasoning. thank you for your analysis.

 

[John81]

Unfortunately, it's the way of this fallen world for governments to be or become corrupt and ever more useful tools of the devil. President Bush the Second and President Obama both declared America isn't a Christian nation; both declared Islam a religion of peace, both declared Christianity and Islam worship the same God, Bush added the Koran to the presidential library, Obama has added Islamic celebrations.

At the same time, the American population has become more worldly. America has been flooded with Catholic Mexicans, seen much growth of the Mormon church, a growing number of Islamists, growth in secular christianity, and an ever more accepting view of sin and wickedness.

It's sad to see, but outside of a massive revival or another great awakening America is doomed to suffer the same decline as other once powerful nations before her.

[Potatochip]

A

Unfortunately, it's the way of this fallen world for governments to be or become corrupt and ever more useful tools of the devil. President Bush the Second and President Obama both declared America isn't a Christian nation; both declared Islam a religion of peace, both declared Christianity and Islam worship the same God, Bush added the Koran to the presidential library, Obama has added Islamic celebrations.

At the same time, the American population has become more worldly. America has been flooded with Catholic Mexicans, seen much growth of the Mormon church, a growing number of Islamists, growth in secular christianity, and an ever more accepting view of sin and wickedness.

It's sad to see, but outside of a massive revival or another great awakening America is doomed to suffer the same decline as other once powerful nations before her.

Hey John, America never was a Christian nation.  Biblically WE are a Holy Nation a people that are no people.  The Constitution is more Masonic (booga booga lol) than Christian.  I say booga because I am not a conspiricy of man follower.  More like the Mystery of Iniquity in my opinion.  Masonry includes all religions in its scope.  All are accepted.  Its the same thing in the Constitution.  Freedom of Religion.  While many assume from tyranny. However thats not the entire story. The Constitution accepts all religions.  Always has.  That includes Jehovia's Witness.  Clearly Mormonism.  Islam - Shriners. Catholosism.  

The IFB dosen't accept Masonry.  As far as I know.  Thats one of the reasons I like it.  It has been critical of other large denominations that will not take a stand on Masonry that accepts members who are involved in it.

In short Christianty does not accept all religions.  It isn't supposed to.  America does.  Always has.

[Alan]

Potatochip,

The Constitition of the United States is the best, and I mean that literally, written form of goverment document in the history of man. Until we see the Lord Jesus reigning in Jerusalem as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS, Revelation 20, and the return to His verbal and written Law in the Old Testament, this world will not see any document superior than the Constitutuion of the Unied States of America.

I also resent that you said the Constitution is a Masonic document and, or, a 'Mysteryof Iniquity.' I fear that your spiritual discernment level on biblical interpretation is not altogether good nor correct.

The Constitution was written with Judeo-Christian prinicples as its guide for the affairs of men. It was not written as a 'Statement of Faith' for a church. Yes, we all understand that all of our Founding Fathers were not Christian, some were Masonic, some were athiest. But, they all loved Freedom, were against Tyranny, and were true Patriots.

The 'Freedom of Religion' clause which you so blantingly despise is the only thing, besides the blood spilled by our veterans, in this country preventing our govenment of athiets, Muslims, agnostics, communists, and evil people from murdering Christians as we speak. The only reason, besides the veterans in our country, why you can attend any Independent Baptist Church, or write on OnLine Baptist, is that one clause, 'Freedom of Religion,' in the Constitution of the United States of America.

The IFB is not the govenment and the government is not the church. You, my firned, have misconstucted our Founding Fathers intentions, the inttentions of God instituting government, and have a lot of twisted logic. It would help you inderstanding of history if you read, and studied, Romans 13:1-7 It may help your understanding it you read the English words more closely, it says, 'United States of America,' not, 'United Churches of America." Maybe you have a problem reading English?

Romans 13:7, "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear honour to whom honour." We need to honour the leaders of our country as best we can and give HONOUR to the Constitution of the United States of America. Please stop dishonoring it and honor it; with all of its preceived faults.

I am glad that God in Heaven put it on the hearts of our Founding Fathers to Write, and fight for, the Constitution of the United States of America. Again, like any human instrument for human government, the Constitution is not perfect, but it is the best written form of government  on the earth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Invicta]

 

Romans 13:7, "Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear honour to whom honour." We need to honour the leaders of our country as best we can and give HONOUR to the Constitution of the United States of America. Please stop dishonoring it and honor it; with all of its preceived faults.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

​But they didn't did they, They rebelled against  the gov't to whom their dues and customs were dus.

[John81]

If the American Constitution is the best governmental document that serves to highlight just how impossible it is for man to create any truly good or lasting government. It didn't take long for what Jefferson, and others, warned would happen, and the Constitution was already being ignored, abused, twisted and trampled for various reasons and by various factions.

Also, just as Jefferson warned, this only got worse over time which built up to the mess we have today.

Christianity did influence some aspects of American government, but we must remember they specifically chose to make the Constitution a secular document. These men were highly influenced by the Enlightenment too.

America was formed as a secular nation with the acknowledgment that Christianity (secular christianity) was the dominate religion of the land. Even so, they specifically chose to provide for freedom of religion rather than freedom of Christian religion.

There are a number of flaws in the system, some of which were warned about before they showed themselves, others weren't noticed until after the fact. The Confederate Constitution, which was modeled after the original, made a few changes in an attempt to correct problem areas and prevent others. Even so, being a human document I have no doubt had the Confederacy remained an independent nation, their government too would have went the same route as that of the USA and other nations.

That said, there are a few other nations with, speaking of man-made things, have very good Constitutions, most of which used at least in part inspiration from the American Constitution and sometimes others, and then with their own specific points.

The reason we have and are able to attend our churches is by the grace of God, not the Constitution or government or veterans. There are many other nations around the world, without our Constitution, where Christians are able to gather in the church of their choosing too. This, by the grace of God.

It's been estimated that approximately 90-95 percent of the federal government is unconstitutional. The Constitution is of little effect and not at all adhered to or followed as intended by the Founders.

Over half the country is still secular christian so regardless of the guarantee of freedom of religion, there is no mass of people in or out of government wanting to kill Christians. Currently, over 90% of congress is Christian (most secular christians, but to them they are Christians).

By the grace of God there are still many sound Christians and churches in America. There are also others around the world, whether Canada, Russia, Nepal, Korea, etc., by the grace of God.

Christianity began and spread mightily while under the pagan tyranny of Roman dictators, many of which actively persecuted Christians. Christianity thrived in many areas behind the Iron Curtain and does so today behind the Bamboo Curtain in China. Some governmental documents are clearly better than others, even factoring the flaws, yet thankfully the rise, spread and staying power of Christianity isn't dependent upon the form of government or their governing documents.

How I would love to see a great revival or awakening in America and what a blessing if we could play even a tiny part in such!

[ThePilgrim]

Well Said, John.

 

[Alan]

Brethren,

I stand by my post on the Constitution. God has mightily used the Constitution of the United States of America as a shining beacon for freedom around the globe since its inception. Numerous countries, including the nation of Taiwan, the Republic of China, have patterened there own Constitution after the Constutution of the United States of America. In spite of all the faults, precieved faults, of both our Founding Fathers, and the Constitution, it is still the best human written instrument in the world.

To those who want to honestly, and sincerely, discuss the issue please let me know. To those who want to pick apart my posts; go ahead, it's a free country. But, do not be surprised if I chose to ignore your posts; as I will ignore the above three posts.

[John81]

For the sake of clarity Alan, I wasn't trying to pick apart your post nor disagree with the outstanding nature of the American Constitution. The Constitution is a wonderful document but even that good was unable to stand against sin.

No document, no matter how perfect we may make it, can stand up to the wickedness that comes from sinful men. Just as a perfectly worded marriage declaration quickly crumbles when one or both spouses give in to sin, the same is true of our Constitution.

When sinful man decides to reinterpret the Constitution, twist its meaning, ignore it, forsake original intent, declare it to be a "living document", by-pass it, that Constitution is no longer in proper service and has no means of enforcing itself.

This should serve to point us more and more to the Word of God and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. While the best of our writings are weak, His Word is ever strong. While the best of our intentions are as filthy rags, the will of God is always righteous. While mans ways lead to corruption, God's way always leads to life.