Members pcoble1 Posted January 31, 2015 Members Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) I am a new member. I was an Independent Baptist for many years. Very involved, bus ministry, proper dress, teacher. Now, the church has become so legalistic I had to write a book on my experiences. Breaking the Bondage from Independent Baptist, Phil COBle. Amazon. If you would like to discuss this in the future you can send me a reply. I would like to be convinced that I am wrong. In my book I explain my prOBlems. I know this, I am saved! I am free in Christ. Edited January 31, 2015 by pcoble1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted January 31, 2015 Administrators Share Posted January 31, 2015 Well Phil, speaking for myself I will not buy your book. You sound like someone who has an axe to grind. I seriousely doubt that you have the qualifications to paint all Independent Baptists with such a broad brush. You write like you think Independent Baptist is a denomination or association and all operate in the same manner. The title of your book speaks volumes regarding your bitterness and anger, which has no place in the life of a Christian. I would suggest that a better avenue would be to take your prOBlem to the Lord, rather than sowing discord among those you once called brother. Alan, Miss Daisy, MountainChristian and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted January 31, 2015 Members Share Posted January 31, 2015 (edited) So Phil, why are you here? Besides advertising your book. Question: What are you now that you are no longer an Independent Baptist? Edited January 31, 2015 by Genevanpreacher Rosie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Popular Post John81 Posted January 31, 2015 Members Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2015 If your book were about one particular IFB church, how that church took a bad turn and written to help others avoid such happening in their church, using Scripture as the guide, then perhaps such a book would be of benefit. However, your book sounds to be about you having been in an IFB church that took a bad turn so now you want to denounce all IFB churches. The fact the "I" stands for "Independent" should be kept in mind for all IFB churches are unique to one degree or another and none are bound together by any organization, convention or constitution. We live in a fallen world filled with fallen people subject to sin. Nothing is perfect in this world. While one can find some IFB churches which aren't what they should be, one can also find many more that are very good. Scripture says when dealing with wayward brethren our goal should be restoration, not attack, not condemnation. Your book doesn't seem to have that biblical goal in mind and is therefore flawed and out of line with Scripture even as you claim your IFB church was. I pray you will forgive those who have hurt you and disappointed you. May you spend time in the Word and come to view the matter as Christ says we should. Forget that which is behind and press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:13-14) MountainChristian, Alan, Miss Daisy and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted January 31, 2015 Members Share Posted January 31, 2015 If a person is saved he is free in Christ in any environment. Such as; jail, a legalistic Baptist Church, a Roman Catholic Church, a Mormon Temple or a Buddhist Monastery. I started to attend an Independent Baptist Church years ago and it was one of the best spiritual decisions the Lord ever led me to make. The worst legalistic independent Baptist Chruch is far, far better than any denominational church or any other type of chuch in this Laodicean Age. The Apostle Paul was free in every jail cell he ever sat in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted January 31, 2015 Members Share Posted January 31, 2015 If a person is saved he is free in Christ in any environment. Such as; jail, a legalistic Baptist Church, a Roman Catholic Church, a Mormon Temple or a Buddhist Monastery. I started to attend an Independent Baptist Church years ago and it was one of the best spiritual decisions the Lord ever led me to make. The worst legalistic independent Baptist Chruch is far, far better than any denominational church or any other type of chuch in this Laodicean Age. The Apostle Paul was free in every jail cell he ever sat in. I wouldn't go so far as to say the worst legalistic IFB church is better than all other non-IFB churches. There are a few IFB churches which are virtually all legalistic, all about outward appearance and conformity, with very little or not grace, no transformation of heart and mind, no growth in holiness, where the congregation is often stern and self-righteous. Such isn't a good place to be. At the same time, there are scattered about some good independent churches, which are scripturally sound, preaching biblical salvation and pursuit of holiness. There are even a few denominational churches that would be better to attend than an extremely legalistic church of any name. Back in the 90s myself and two other men left an IFB church after a new pastor came in and took the church on a hard left turn. We attempted to speak with the pastor about the matters, at which point he would "listen" dismissively (even rolling his eyes a couple times) and then proceeded to tell us he was taking the church in that leftward way and those who didn't like it could leave. After visiting several other churches we settled upon a denominational church with a very old pastor who only preached the Word, nothing of a denominational nature, and also held a very good men's Bible study. We were only there for about three months before we each moved away and were able to find a good IFB church at our new locations. Sadly, there are several IFB churches in this general area now which are no longer worth attending. What has plagued other churches has now infected a growing number of IFB churches. I pray for those which have gone astray and praise God for those holding true to His Word. It's so important to pray for our pastors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted January 31, 2015 Members Share Posted January 31, 2015 I am a new member. I was an Independent Baptist for many years. Very involved, bus ministry, proper dress, teacher. Now, the church has become so legalistic I had to write a book on my experiences. Breaking the Bondage from Independent Baptist, Phil COBle. Amazon. If you would like to discuss this in the future you can send me a reply. I would like to be convinced that I am wrong. In my book I explain my prOBlems. I know this, I am saved! I am free in Christ. I read what Amazon had for a sample. I see from it that you state there are 'real' IFB, and one's 'claiming' to be. That has always existed. So what is new in your thinking? Liberality, the bad kind, has always been around. That doesn't mean you can't be wise enough to find a good one. If looking for an independent Baptist form of teaching and preaching, what in your opinion constitutes a 'freedom' type of Baptist church? Are you saying some Baptists teach other modes of salvation? I am curious if you found that your 'type' of church is weak on what actually saves you. As I have experienced, when you get out of the 'independent' Baptists that deny 'clean living', you get into one's that are accepting of false teachings relating to 'how' one really 'incorporates' a 'new spirit' into an 'old lifestyle'. To be specific, baptism. Most so-called 'independent' churches that deny the Baptist name, really lean toward baptismal regeneration. you know, getting your sins washed away in the water of baptism. Do they or you have a perverted view of, as example, Mark 16:16, Acts 2:37, 22:16, and 1 Peter 3:21? Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcoble1 Posted February 1, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 1, 2015 I understand everyone's point. Except for what Alan posted. Really, a legalistic church is better than what? I am not angry. I am just putting my personal story out there. I realize there are good IBC in America. In my location, most of them are what I spoke about. It is very dangerous to ignore the prOBlems. I believe in the Baptist doctrine. I believe more in the Word of God. I do use the KJV, I believe in reaching others and sowing the seed. I am not convinced that I must wear a tie and never miss a church service. If I did in every IBC I ever was a part of, guilt was poured out like water. I am not advertising my book. I am not making any money on it. I just want people to be informed. On another note, If you are angry, feel like your way is the only way, you fall into the category I was speaking of. Are you saying some Baptists teach other modes of salvation? Yes to that question. Saved by grace, going to Heaven, but work or have guilt preached to you. That is what I have experienced. If you don't like what has happened in the Independent Baptist Church, change it. Help others realize that their are good church's. Where I am at, not so much. North Carolina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 1, 2015 Members Share Posted February 1, 2015 I understand everyone's point. Except for what Alan posted. Really, a legalistic church is better than what? I am not angry. I am just putting my personal story out there. I realize there are good IBC in America. In my location, most of them are what I spoke about. It is very dangerous to ignore the prOBlems. I believe in the Baptist doctrine. I believe more in the Word of God. I do use the KJV, I believe in reaching others and sowing the seed. I am not convinced that I must wear a tie and never miss a church service. If I did in every IBC I ever was a part of, guilt was poured out like water. I am not advertising my book. I am not making any money on it. I just want people to be informed. On another note, If you are angry, feel like your way is the only way, you fall into the category I was speaking of. Are you saying some Baptists teach other modes of salvation? Yes to that question. Saved by grace, going to Heaven, but work or have guilt preached to you. That is what I have experienced. If you don't like what has happened in the Independent Baptist Church, change it. Help others realize that their are good church's. Where I am at, not so much. North Carolina You raise some good points which do need to be addressed in some churches. This is a better worded post than your first one as you at least acknowledge there are some good churches out there. In this area, the IFB churches which have gone a bad direction have gone the way of liberalism rather than legalism. Still, just as one can't give the impression that all, or even most IFB churches are liberal, one can't rightly do the same with regards to the issue of legalism. Our pastor did recently address the prOBlem of a few certain churches which say they believe in salvation by grace through faith but in practice it appears more works based. They continually tell others if they are not keeping certain rules or laws that must mean they aren't saved. One church even claimed any man wearing a colored shirt (non-white) to church was in sin. They went so far as to have several white shirts available so if any man did enter their church wearing a non-white shirt they could tell them they had to change shirts during their time there or leave. I fully agree we need to address whatever prOBlems our church may have. Sometimes it's good to sound a warning about particular churches. However, we have to be careful not to condemn a whole set of churches, or members of such churches based upon what some do wrong. I've been in and seen some churches take bad turns. I've attempted, in the churches I was attending at the time, to shine light upon the prOBlem with the aim of good correction. Praise God, even when churches have gone bad, the Lord has always guided me to a good church home. It's so important that we pray for our pastors, church leaders, the members and congregation. The world and the devil are eager to destroy our churches and we must be on guard and prayed up against such. pcoble1, ThePilgrim, Miss Daisy and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members pcoble1 Posted February 2, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 John, you are pretty much right. You have expressed what I may have had a hard time doing. I want folks to open their eyes. I have been hurt so much by the legalistic church that I felt folks needed to hear my story to be aware of what is out there. Thanks for your comment. John81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Genevanpreacher Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 So what are the 'legalistic' things you are in reference to? Details please. That will help in identifying the 'prOBlem'. Alan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 If you re-read my post I hope that you notice that it was not all inclusive, nor was it a doctrinal thesis, just a reminider that so many folks poke fun of Independent Baptist churches that it get ludicrous. so, I was being somewhat facetious. OBviously I do not know exactly what PcOBle 1 has a prOBlem with but I do know that a lot of times when a person does not like a preacher preaching against sin he calls the preacher, and church, "legalistic," "non loving," "Pharissic," etc.... you catch my drift? I have no intention in buying, or reading, a book that details an individuals hatred towards any church. Genevanpreacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members paid4 Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 Legalistic is the word used to battle convictions. There is nothing wrong with the word legalism. If you're on the right side of legalism then you have what we call standards. Usage of the word legalism today is nothing more than a rebellious spirit. If you would submit yourself biblically then it's more understandable. Don't let the flesh ruin other peoples set of standards. Miss Daisy and Alan 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 Legalism can have serious ramifications and/or consequences. If a Church has set standards that they insist God requires, then they need Scripture to prove that God does indeed require it. If Scripture does not suppore a standard that the pastor says "God requires", then that is a Pharisaical form of legalism. That type of legalism is unhealthy and unproductive. John81, pcoble1, No Nicolaitans and 1 other 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MountainChristian Posted February 2, 2015 Members Share Posted February 2, 2015 This reminds me of something in the Bible Luke 15:29 And he answering said to his father, Lo, these many years do I serve thee, neither transgressed I at any time thy commandment: and yet thou never gavest me a kid, that I might make merry with my friends: His daddy had to go out and baby talk him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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