Members Covenanter Posted January 23, 2015 Members Share Posted January 23, 2015 Netanyahu Imported by GOP to Ensure Iran War By Juan Cole, Informed Comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 The willful king or antichrist will be leading the strongest nation when the tribulation wars start Daniel 11:39-45. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 The willful king or antichrist will be leading the strongest nation when the tribulation wars start Daniel 11:39-45. Reading from the KJB the verses you cited in Daniel and it doesn't say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 Reading from the KJB the verses you cited in Daniel and it doesn't say that. He will do his will in the most strongholds before he divides Israel and the the kings of the south and north of Israel attack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 He will do his will in the most strongholds before he divides Israel and the the kings of the south and north of Israel attack. That certainly doesn't say the antichrist will be the leader of the most powerful nation at that time. Â Most pre-trib rapture folks believe this is referring to a revived Roman Empire in Europe, possibly having something to do with or coming out of the current EU. While Scripture doesn't speak of this as direct fact, there is far more circumstantial evidence in Scripture to support that view than your idea antichrist will rule America. Â We should also consider that the EU is currently an economic powerhouse while America is going on a decades long economic crisis. American debt is growing quickly and will soon reach the point where she can't pay more than the interest on the loans which will cause further economic crisis. Meanwhile, several other nations are on the upswing, including China, India and Brazil. Â It's debatable right now as to just which nation is currently the most powerful and we certainly can't predict where the power will be in the future just as we can't predict the return of Christ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Alan Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 IÂ think a lot of the who is governing who, and where is what, will be taken care of in the Tribulation Period. Â Of which I do not plan on being here as I will be in the air!!!!! :coffee2:Come Lord Jesus! Miss Daisy and EKSmith 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 That certainly doesn't say the antichrist will be the leader of the most powerful nation at that time. Â Most pre-trib rapture folks believe this is referring to a revived Roman Empire in Europe, possibly having something to do with or coming out of the current EU. While Scripture doesn't speak of this as direct fact, there is far more circumstantial evidence in Scripture to support that view than your idea antichrist will rule America. Â We should also consider that the EU is currently an economic powerhouse while America is going on a decades long economic crisis. American debt is growing quickly and will soon reach the point where she can't pay more than the interest on the loans which will cause further economic crisis. Meanwhile, several other nations are on the upswing, including China, India and Brazil. Â It's debatable right now as to just which nation is currently the most powerful and we certainly can't predict where the power will be in the future just as we can't predict the return of Christ. Â 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 After the taking up of the church with the Holy Spirit that letteth, God will cause everyone who has heard and rejected the gospel of Jesus to believe the lie of Antichrist. All "Christian" nations will follow antichrist and maybe red China. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 2 Thessalonians 2:6-12 After the taking up of the church with the Holy Spirit that letteth, God will cause everyone who has heard and rejected the gospel of Jesus to believe the lie of Antichrist. All "Christian" nations will follow antichrist and maybe red China. That's a lot of speculation there. Just who are the "Christian" nations? Research in America and Europe indicate a large percentage of the population has never heard the Gospel. Â Beyond that, the verses you cite still say nothing of America, the antichrist ruling America, what nation or group of nations will be the powerbase when Christ returns. Â If you have a theory about how the end times will play out that's fine, but it should be presented as such rather than as biblical fact, and then it can be discussed as such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 That's a lot of speculation there. Just who are the "Christian" nations? Research in America and Europe indicate a large percentage of the population has never heard the Gospel.  Beyond that, the verses you cite still say nothing of America, the antichrist ruling America, what nation or group of nations will be the powerbase when Christ returns.  If you have a theory about how the end times will play out that's fine, but it should be presented as such rather than as biblical fact, and then it can be discussed as such. Permanent SOLAR ECLIPSE over Israel  Read Revelation 16:10-11 in the KJV The antichrist will come from the dark place on earth before Armageddon. Habakkuk 3:11-13 The sun and moon will stand still over Israel and go from view. Why or how? Joel said the sun and moon and stars will with drawl their shining. Amos 8:9 the sun will set at noon on a clear day. Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-22 During the kingdom age the sun and moon will be over Israel and will not With-drawl but will not give light to Israel. Jesus will be over Israel in the New Jerusalem and his glory will be the light over Israel. I believe God will take hold of the ends of the earth and slow the rotation of the earth to cause a permanent solar eclipse over Israel. JOB 38:11,15 KJV If the sun stays over Israel, America will stay dark! There will be darkness on the kingdom of the antichrist. Revelation 16:10-11 Consider the above and let me know what you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted February 7, 2015 Members Share Posted February 7, 2015 I think a lot of the who is governing who, and where is what, will be taken care of in the Tribulation Period.  Of which I do not plan on being here as I will be in the air!!!!! Come Lord Jesus!  As tribulation for believers, at the hands of the ungodly, is prophesied as a normal condition, the whole Gospel age is tribulation period. Whether tribulation will intensify towards the time of Jesus' return is unclear in Scripture. e.g. John 16:33 Acts 14:22 Rev. 1:9  Rebellion & ungodliness is likely to increase. e.g. Gen. 6:5 Gen. 15:16  Isa. 5:20 Mat. 23:32-33 2 Peter 3:9  From these references, it seems that God is longsuffering, allowing wickedness to increase beyond the point of repentance, before judgement.  Many believers in the past have suffered tribulation, some of us will suffer tribulation - & some are presently suffering intense tribulation. I know the "great tribulation" has been developed by dispensationalists into a grand finale & raptured believers will have a grand-stand view, but that is not what Scripture teaches. Jesus taught the great trib would be in the years leading up to the destruction. Mat. 24:16-22  Permanent SOLAR ECLIPSE over Israel  Read Revelation 16:10-11 in the KJV The antichrist will come from the dark place on earth before Armageddon. Habakkuk 3:11-13 The sun and moon will stand still over Israel and go from view. Why or how? Joel said the sun and moon and stars will with drawl their shining. Amos 8:9 the sun will set at noon on a clear day. Isaiah 60:1-2, 19-22 During the kingdom age the sun and moon will be over Israel and will not With-drawl but will not give light to Israel. Jesus will be over Israel in the New Jerusalem and his glory will be the light over Israel. I believe God will take hold of the ends of the earth and slow the rotation of the earth to cause a permanent solar eclipse over Israel. JOB 38:11,15 KJV If the sun stays over Israel, America will stay dark! There will be darkness on the kingdom of the antichrist. Revelation 16:10-11 Consider the above and let me know what you think.  We need to keep in view Jesus as the light of the world. It is spiritual darkness without him.  When you quote the prophets, it is important to consider the context.  Habakkuk was concerned about the wickedness of the people of God - & the reply was they would be judged by the Chaldean invasion. (Babylonian captivity.) Hab. 3 is written in the past tense, as Habakkuk remembers God's faithfulness in the past, as the basis for living by faith in troubled times. The references are to God's deliverance of them from Egypt, & their experiences in the wilderness & the conquest of the promised land. See e.g.  Hab. 3:11 & Jos. 10:13 It is now prophecy, but history that the cross references show.  Habakkuk 2:4 is quoted in Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11 & Hebrews 10:38 We must live by faith in a faithful God whatever we may suffer. Rom. 8:35-39  Much of OT prophecy is quoted in the NT as referring to the life & saving work of Jesus. We miss the thrust & application if we make it all yet future "end times."  You snatch verses out of context to try to justify your bizarre theories. Genevanpreacher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 9, 2015 Members Share Posted February 9, 2015 As tribulation for believers, at the hands of the ungodly, is prophesied as a normal condition, the whole Gospel age is tribulation period. Whether tribulation will intensify towards the time of Jesus' return is unclear in Scripture. e.g. John 16:33 Acts 14:22 Rev. 1:9  Rebellion & ungodliness is likely to increase. e.g. Gen. 6:5 Gen. 15:16  Isa. 5:20 Mat. 23:32-33 2 Peter 3:9  From these references, it seems that God is longsuffering, allowing wickedness to increase beyond the point of repentance, before judgement.  Many believers in the past have suffered tribulation, some of us will suffer tribulation - & some are presently suffering intense tribulation. I know the "great tribulation" has been developed by dispensationalists into a grand finale & raptured believers will have a grand-stand view, but that is not what Scripture teaches. Jesus taught the great trib would be in the years leading up to the destruction. Mat. 24:16-22   We need to keep in view Jesus as the light of the world. It is spiritual darkness without him.  When you quote the prophets, it is important to consider the context.  Habakkuk was concerned about the wickedness of the people of God - & the reply was they would be judged by the Chaldean invasion. (Babylonian captivity.) Hab. 3 is written in the past tense, as Habakkuk remembers God's faithfulness in the past, as the basis for living by faith in troubled times. The references are to God's deliverance of them from Egypt, & their experiences in the wilderness & the conquest of the promised land. See e.g.  Hab. 3:11 & Jos. 10:13 It is now prophecy, but history that the cross references show.  Habakkuk 2:4 is quoted in Romans 1:17, Galatians 3:11 & Hebrews 10:38 We must live by faith in a faithful God whatever we may suffer. Rom. 8:35-39  Much of OT prophecy is quoted in the NT as referring to the life & saving work of Jesus. We miss the thrust & application if we make it all yet future "end times."  You snatch verses out of context to try to justify your bizarre theories. Habakkuk spoke in the past tense because he was referring to the lord speech which he had heard Habakkuk 2:2. If you read Habakkuk 3:10-13 notice that the sun and moon stand still over Israel before Armageddon as the darkness is sent on the kingdom of antichrist before Armageddon in Revelation 16:10-16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Invicta Posted February 10, 2015 Members Share Posted February 10, 2015 The willful king or antichrist will be leading the strongest nation when the tribulation wars start Daniel 11:39-45. Â Which willful king are you referring to? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 10, 2015 Members Share Posted February 10, 2015 Which willful king are you referring to? Some call him the antichrist. Daniel 11:36-45 is about him coming to power and going into the end time wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted February 10, 2015 Author Members Share Posted February 10, 2015 (edited) Liberals use Daniel 11 to dispute that there was more than one "Daniel", because that chapter exactly fits the death of Alexander the Great and the division of his empire between his 4 generals. The king of the south fits with Ptolemy and his rule over Egypt, and the king of the north fits with Seleucus who ruled Syria. These two were constantly battling each other, much taking place in Palestine. So, in this respect, this is considered a fulfilled prophecy. No offence to Hal Lindsay, but he tried to put every prophecy into the Tribulation. Edited February 10, 2015 by beameup Genevanpreacher, Invicta and Covenanter 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Eric Stahl Posted February 10, 2015 Members Share Posted February 10, 2015 Liberals use Daniel 11 to dispute that there was more than one "Daniel", because that chapter exactly fits the death of Alexander the Great and the division of his empire between his 4 generals. The king of the south fits with Ptolemy and his rule over Egypt, and the king of the north fits with Seleucus who ruled Syria. These two were constantly battling each other, much taking place in Palestine. So, in this respect, this is considered a fulfilled prophecy. No offence to Hal Lindsay, but he tried to put every prophecy into the Tribulation. It will be the same people that attack the willful king we call the antichrist only later in time. Daniel 11:40-43a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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