Why Is Eschatology So Difficult To Interpret

[Jordan Kurecki]

I am pretty irritated with how unclear end times prophecy is.

 

I'm having serious prOBlems understanding and interpreting the 2nd coming and trying to distinguish when the Rapture takes place.

 

I am ready to withdraw from eschatology all together because I am not convinced of any single eschatological position except that Jesus Christ will some day return and reign.

 

 

[Steve Schwenke]

2 Timothy 3:16-17  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

What is the first thing in this list?  DOCTRINE

Do you really think that God would give us His perfect words, and then not spell out these end times events for us?  I don't.  The Scriptures are clear, but man (as usual) messes things up.

 

Don't get hung up on semantics and labels.  If the term "dispensationalism" scares you, then you must decide if the Biblical viewpoint to the end times is futurist or preterist.  

 

Don't give up because it is too confusing.  Remember these Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

John 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

[Jordan Kurecki]

2 Timothy 3:16-17  All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

What is the first thing in this list?  DOCTRINE

Do you really think that God would give us His perfect words, and then not spell out these end times events for us?  I don't.  The Scriptures are clear, but man (as usual) messes things up.

 

Don't get hung up on semantics and labels.  If the term "dispensationalism" scares you, then you must decide if the Biblical viewpoint to the end times is futurist or preterist.  

 

Don't give up because it is too confusing.  Remember these Scriptures:

1 Corinthians 14:33  For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

John 16:13  Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

I'm waiting for the truth on eschatology...

 

It has not come...

 

I am troubled deeply of eschatology

 

the following video is a challenge to the pre trib rapture position,

 

I welcome a response to this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=54GIzvneb4c

[Steve Schwenke]

Brother, 

I am not going to watch the video.  No need.  The basis for the confusion on the rapture is simply a failure to rightly divide the gospel teaching regarding a catching away of Trib saints prior to the 2nd Coming of Jesus Christ, and the catching away of Church Saints prior to the Tribulation.  The first is found in the gospels; the second is found in the Pauline Epistles.  Simple.

 

If you want the truth, stop watching you tube, reading commentaries, and especially reading the ongoing debates on forums like this.

 

Get yourself a King James Bible, read it, and ask the Holy Spirit to guide you into all truth.  

Read through REvelation a few times, and ask the Lord to give you some sense on the chronology.

 

Ask the Lord if it should be taken literal as future events, or figuratively as symbolic as some past event(s).

 

In Christ,

[MountainChristian]

Acts 1 Jesus looks a normal man after rising from the dead. The Angels say he will return on the clouds. 

Matthew 24 & 26, Mark 13 & 14 Jesus says he will return in the clouds

1 Thessalonians 4 Paul says he will be coming in the clouds

Revelation 1 John says he is coming in the clouds

Daniel 7 Son of Man on clouds

 

Revelation 19 Jesus returning on a horse with bloody clothes, lots of crowns plus fire eyes. Leading an army. No mention of clouds.

 

That's plain pure Bible without any of man's teachings. Does that look like two different returns? Two different reasons? One coming to get people that are alive and those who have rose from the dead, the other to fight a war. Is that what you see? 

[John81]

I am pretty irritated with how unclear end times prophecy is.

 

I'm having serious prOBlems understanding and interpreting the 2nd coming and trying to distinguish when the Rapture takes place.

 

I am ready to withdraw from eschatology all together because I am not convinced of any single eschatological position except that Jesus Christ will some day return and reign.

We all learn at a different pace and the Lord chooses to reveal things from His Word to us at different times as He knows what's most needful for each step of our walk.

 

No one has the entire Word of God perfectly understood. When it comes to eschatology part of the prOBlem is man's unwillingness to accept that God didn't provide us with a detailed, step-by-step view of the end times. Therefore, many take what the Lord did provide and then they attempt to fill in the details themselves. Remember, the most educated and dedicated students of the Word failed to understand the First Coming of Christ.

 

It can be helpful to know the different views but in the end it comes down to you, your Bible and the Holy Ghost. Don't feel alone in what you are dealing with. Men of God have wrestled with eschatology for 2,000 years and as you know they all didn't agree upon every point. Don't let that discourage you. Remember that your greatest call is to submit yourself to the Spirit so you walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, which gives you a testimony for Christ and helps in sharing the Gospel with the lost.

 

As you grow in the Lord you will find the Holy Ghost opening up "new" things to you in Scripture. A passage you may have literally read a hundred times may suddenly be filled with "new" meaning to you as the Holy Ghost teaches you.

 

You already know the most important fact and detail of eschatology, that Jesus is returning. You already know the importance of lost souls being presented with the Gospel and that we don't know how much time we have to do this so we need to be busy in this area. You already know you are called to surrender all for His sake, separating yourself from the world and growing in personal holiness. Trust and OBey those things you already know and as you walk in OBedience to the Lord He will increase your knowledge and understanding, enabling you to grow more in the Lord.

 

Don't rush things, God's timing is nor our timing.

[Jordan Kurecki]

We all learn at a different pace and the Lord chooses to reveal things from His Word to us at different times as He knows what's most needful for each step of our walk.

 

No one has the entire Word of God perfectly understood. When it comes to eschatology part of the prOBlem is man's unwillingness to accept that God didn't provide us with a detailed, step-by-step view of the end times. Therefore, many take what the Lord did provide and then they attempt to fill in the details themselves. Remember, the most educated and dedicated students of the Word failed to understand the First Coming of Christ.

 

It can be helpful to know the different views but in the end it comes down to you, your Bible and the Holy Ghost. Don't feel alone in what you are dealing with. Men of God have wrestled with eschatology for 2,000 years and as you know they all didn't agree upon every point. Don't let that discourage you. Remember that your greatest call is to submit yourself to the Spirit so you walk in the Spirit, not in the flesh, which gives you a testimony for Christ and helps in sharing the Gospel with the lost.

 

As you grow in the Lord you will find the Holy Ghost opening up "new" things to you in Scripture. A passage you may have literally read a hundred times may suddenly be filled with "new" meaning to you as the Holy Ghost teaches you.

 

You already know the most important fact and detail of eschatology, that Jesus is returning. You already know the importance of lost souls being presented with the Gospel and that we don't know how much time we have to do this so we need to be busy in this area. You already know you are called to surrender all for His sake, separating yourself from the world and growing in personal holiness. Trust and OBey those things you already know and as you walk in OBedience to the Lord He will increase your knowledge and understanding, enabling you to grow more in the Lord.

 

Don't rush things, God's timing is nor our timing.

Thanks my friend!

[Donald]

Hello Jordan Kurecki

I believe that most of your trouble in this area comes from giving your ear to “too many voices”. The Lord saw fit to “hide” the details about the end times in several different places(within God’s Word), so that the truth about our future, can only be nailed down, by lots of Bible study.....
“[it is] the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings [is] to search out a matter.” (Proverbs 25:2)

For instance, a person might do a search in the Bible for the phrase “seven years”, in order to quickly come up with some answers about the “seven year tribulation period”; But they wouldn’t find one verse having to do with it.  The Lord found a way to give us several direct references to this period, without using the words, “seven years”!

For sure, the Bible’s prophecies about the future a clear cut and can be “nailed down”, but it takes some devoted time spent in God’s Word, studying. I could walk you through the facts found in God’s Word, but that would rOB you of the pleasure of finding them yourself.

Please don’t give up, in your personal search for the truth.
 

[Pastor Scott Markle]

I am pretty irritated with how unclear end times prophecy is.

 

I'm having serious prOBlems understanding and interpreting the 2nd coming and trying to distinguish when the Rapture takes place.

 

I am ready to withdraw from eschatology all together because I am not convinced of any single eschatological position except that Jesus Christ will some day return and reign.

 

Brother Kurecki,

 

My heart has carried a significant burden for you concerning this matter since the first day that I read your original posting.  I wish now to express that burden through a series of questions.  It is my intention to do so out of brotherly love and with Biblical grace.  However, these questions will contain an element of reproof and admonition.  Therefore, I pray that this posting will be received in the spirit with which it is intended.

 

You have indicated your readiness to "withdraw from" the doctrine of "eschatology all together."  Therefore, I ask --

 

1.  Does this mean that you are ready to cease any and all study concerning this doctrine of God's whole counsel as presented in His Holy Word?

 

2.  Does this mean that when you encounter an "eschatological" passage in your daily Bible reading (I pray that you do indeed have such a daily time in God's Holy Word), you will simply "skip over" that portion of God's Holy Word?

 

3.  Does this mean that if you are in a church service wherein an "eschatological" passage is presented as the text for a message, you will walk out of that service, or will at least completely "shut up" your ears from listening to that message?

 

Now, I do not actually believe that you intend to practice these extremes.  However, with loving and gracious burden of heart, I do wish to warn you that the spirit of discouragement that you presently have toward this doctrine of God's Holy Word could eventually and ultimately lead you to such extremes.  Brother, I admonish you -- such ought not so to be.

 

Furthermore, I do not believe that you are struggling with every single aspect concerning the doctrine of eschatology.  Rather, I suspect that you are struggling with a few specific elements therein, and that you have acquired a spirit of discouragement over those specific elements of uncertainty.  On the ground of that suspicion, I would ask you another set of questions from another perspective --

 

1.  Would you then also possibly come to the place where you might "withdraw" from the doctrine of soteriology (salvation) because you retain some uncertainties concerning specific aspects of election and predestination?

 

2.  Would you then also possibly come to the place where you might "withdraw" from the doctrine of Christology because you retain some uncertainties concerning the interworkings of our Lord Jesus' divine nature and human nature?

 

3.  Would you then also possibly come to the place where you might "withdraw" from the doctrine of Theology because you retain some uncertainties concerning the interworking of the three divine persons within the single eternal Godhead?

 

Brother, please take care concerning this spirit of discouragement which appears to have pierced your heart concerning this doctrinal matter of God's Holy Word.  Is it acceptable to set aside for a time particular aspects of our doctrinal studies, with an honest recognition of specific uncertainties?  Certainly.  Is it acceptable to "withdraw" altogether from a doctrine of God's Holy Word due to a spirit of discouragement because of those uncertainties?  I do not believe so.  Thus I present this burden of admonition.

 

___________________________________________________

 

Now, I also wish to be of some help to you (if I am able) concerning your specific matters of uncertainty.  Even so, I would ask -- what specific aspects of eschatology are presenting troubling your heart and mind?  I strongly suspect that your spirit of discouragement over the doctrine of eschatology has actually been created due to a few specific points of uncertainty.  It will be easier for someone to help you, if that individual might know what those specific points of uncertainty are.  In fact, it will even help you to combat your spirit of discouragement over the whole doctrine, if you yourself can recognize the few, specific point of uncertainty that you possess.  

 

From your following statement --

I'm having serious prOBlems understanding and interpreting the 2nd coming and trying to distinguish when the Rapture takes place.

 

It appears to me that one specific point of uncertainty for you is the timing of the Rapture.  Am I correct in this understanding?  If I am correct in this understanding, then I would pose a series of preliminary questions, in order to help narrow the focus of your uncertainty and of the discussion.

 

1.  Do you possess conviction of faith that our Lord Jesus Christ will return bodily unto the earth in His Second Coming to establish His personal reign over the entire world for 1,0000 years?

 

2.  Do you possess conviction of faith that the Lord God will pour out His wrath upon the entire world for a seven year period of Great Tribulation, and that our Lord Jesus Christ will return bodily unto the earth in His Second Coming at the immediate conclusion of this seven year Tribulation period?

 

3.  Do you possess conviction of faith that a Rapture (catching up) of those "in Christ" will actually occur, so that those "in Christ" will experience a resurrection unto glorified bodies and will so meet the Lord in the air, to ever be with the Lord?

[Alan]

Dear Bro. Jordan,

 

I do hope that the pastoral counsel of Pastor Markle has helped you as he has deep understanding on the issues of this day, eschchatology and the insight to discern between correct and incorrect doctrine.

 

I did view the video on the,"Pre-Trib Rapture Hoax," by Pastor Sam Adams, Bellview, Florida, that you posted. Before I comment on that, Scofield did have some issues in his Reference Bible that are erroneous and and in his personal life he had prOBlems, but, his belief and biblical view on a Pre-Triblulation Rapure was not one of these errors. He was correct.

 

Also, the attitude of Pastor Sam Adams was demeaning, spiteful and slanderous. His animostiy towards Brother Scofield was very evident throughout the video and typical of a heretic towards men of God who teach the truth.

 

Pastor Adams in eschatological error. The word of the Lord Jesus, and Paul the Apostle, clearly teach that the church, I mean real believers, not false Christians as found in many denominiational churches, will be taken out of the world as taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Please note that Brother Scofield also notes the difference between true believers and professing false believers.

 

The Tribulation Period is a time wherof the, "wrath of the lamb," will be poured out on the whole world. Revelation 6:16 & 17, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"  God is on sitting on His throne, the Lamb is the Lord Jesus, and the great day of his wrath is the 7 Year Tribulation Period. The church is not on the earth with those unbelievers during the time of the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

 

The scriptures clearly delineate between a time of personal tribulation, or persecution, see Revelation 2:10, and the 7 Year Tribulation Period, Revelation chapter 6:1 though 19:21.

 

In his great discourse on the end times the Paul the Apostle clearly taught that the church will not experience the time of the wrath of God, and of the Lamb, that takes place during the 7 Year Tribulation Period on the earth. 

 

In a clear reference to the 7 Year Tribulation Period, Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Please study the context, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 5 along with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, very carefully. In 2 Thessalonians 2:7, "...until he [the Holy Spirit ] be taken out of the way." When the church leaves in the Rapture the Holy Spirit is taken out of the earth due to the fact that the Holy Spirit is indwelt in every believer. The work of the Holy Spirit during the Chruch Age is completed and God will once again use the Jewish race to complete His work in the 7 Year Tribulation Period. 

 

As a side note. God has a plan for the elect sons of Israel that will be clearly presented to the whole earth during the 7 Year Tribulation Period and the accompaning, literal, Millenial Period as clearly taught in Revelation 20:1-6.

 

Afterwards, the Lord Jesus gave this promise to all the churches in  Revelation 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the earth." The Lord Jesus, not Darby or Scofield, plainly stated, to all the churches, that He would personally keep the church, the true church, from the hour of tempatation, or the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

 

The prOBlem with Pastor Adams and his teaching (as with the cults, heretics, Charismatics, Calvanists, and denominational teachers), is that their spiritual insight of the end times is deficient and  that they cannot rightly divide the word of truth. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 This is a spiritual prOBlem and not a prOBlem with language abilities, Greek, or scholarship.

 

In his teaching of the Pre-Tribluation Rapture, Brother Scofield was correct. You may read his comments on the matter on his notes on 1 Thesalonians 4:13-18 and Revelation 4:1   

 

Brother Jordan, I do hope that this little reminder lesson is a blessing and a help to you personally and to other saints who are confused due to the numerous false prophets abounding in our day and age. I understand your confusion and my only desire is to help you in your walk with the Lord Jesus.

 

In the love of Christ,

AlanTaiwan

Edited February 2, 2015 by AlanTaiwan

[Ukulelemike]

I'm staying out of this one

[John81]

I'm staying out of this one

*Where's the chicken smilie?*  

[Jordan Kurecki]

Dear Bro. Jordan,

 

I do hope that the pastoral counsel of Pastor Markle has helped you as he has deep understanding on the issues of this day, eschchatology and the insight to discern between correct and incorrect doctrine.

 

I did view the video on the,"Pre-Trib Rapture Hoax," by Pastor Sam Adams, Bellview, Florida, that you posted. Before I comment on that, Scofield did have some issues in his Reference Bible that are erroneous and and in his personal life he had prOBlems, but, his belief and biblical view on a Pre-Triblulation Rapure was not one of these errors. He was correct.

 

Also, the attitude of Pastor Sam Adams was demeaning, spiteful and slanderous. His animostiy towards Brother Scofield was very evident throughout the video and typical of a heretic towards men of God who teach the truth.

 

Pastor Adams in eschatological error. The word of the Lord Jesus, and Paul the Apostle, clearly teach that the church, I mean real believers, not false Christians as found in many denominiational churches, will be taken out of the world as taught in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Please note that Brother Scofield also notes the difference between true believers and professing false believers.

 

The Tribulation Period is a time wherof the, "wrath of the lamb," will be poured out on the whole world. Revelation 6:16 & 17, "And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"  God is on sitting on His throne, the Lamb is the Lord Jesus, and the great day of his wrath is the 7 Year Tribulation Period. The church is not on the earth with those unbelievers during the time of the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

 

The scriptures clearly delineate between a time of personal tribulation, or persecution, see Revelation 2:10, and the 7 Year Tribulation Period, Revelation chapter 6:1 though 19:21.

 

In his great discourse on the end times the Paul the Apostle clearly taught that the church will not experience the time of the wrath of God, and of the Lamb, that takes place during the 7 Year Tribulation Period on the earth. 

 

In a clear reference to the 7 Year Tribulation Period, Paul states in 1 Thessalonians 5:9, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to OBtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ." Please study the context, 1 Thessalonians chapter 4 and 5 along with 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12, very carefully. In 2 Thessalonians 2:7, "...until he [the Holy Spirit ] be taken out of the way." When the church leaves in the Rapture the Holy Spirit is taken out of the earth due to the fact that the Holy Spirit is indwelt in every believer. The work of the Holy Spirit during the Chruch Age is completed and God will once again use the Jewish race to complete His work in the 7 Year Tribulation Period. 

 

As a side note. God has a plan for the elect sons of Israel that will be clearly presented to the whole earth during the 7 Year Tribulation Period and the accompaning, literal, Millenial Period as clearly taught in Revelation 20:1-6.

 

Afterwards, the Lord Jesus gave this promise to all the churches in  Revelation 3:10, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the earth." The Lord Jesus, not Darby or Scofield, plainly stated, to all the churches, that He would personally keep the church, the true church, from the hour of tempatation, or the 7 Year Tribulation Period.

 

The prOBlem with Pastor Adams and his teaching (as with the cults, heretics, Charismatics, Calvanists, and denominational teachers), is that their spiritual insight of the end times is deficient and  that they cannot rightly divide the word of truth. "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 This is a spiritual prOBlem and not a prOBlem with language abilities, Greek, or scholarship.

 

In his teaching of the Pre-Tribluation Rapture, Brother Scofield was correct. You may read his comments on the matter on his notes on 1 Thesalonians 4:13-18 and Revelation 4:1   

 

Brother Jordan, I do hope that this little reminder lesson is a blessing and a help to you personally and to other saints who are confused due to the numerous false prophets abounding in our day and age. I understand your confusion and my only desire is to help you in your walk with the Lord Jesus.

 

In the love of Christ,

AlanTaiwan

thanks

[Ukulelemike]

*Where's the chicken smilie?*

LOL Not chicken, just...judicious. And don't want to turn the thread into a fight thread.

[John81]

LOL Not chicken, just...judicious. And don't want to turn the thread into a fight thread.

That's what i figured, but it was too good to pass up!