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Eric Stahl

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49 minutes ago, Invicta said:

My reading is a literal understanding of the passage.  You just ignore history.  "When ye shall see Jerusalem compassed by armies"  They did see that, "then know that its desolation is nigh."   They understood that and fled the city as the Lord commanded. They also knew that the abomination that would cause the desolation was the (Roman) armies surrounding Jerusalem.

B UT   of that day and hour knoweth no man.  The previous signs were for the destruction of Jerusalem, this was notified in advance to enable believers to escape,  The answer to this second question is of the Lord's coming.  It would be suddenly and there would  be no sign.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   

And yet the Bible clearly says:

3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

 5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

And DOESN'T make any link with Jerusalem the way you make up.

By the way, Jerusalem was not compassed by "Armies" but AN army, and the years it was compassed about about is hardly suddenly, and the Christians did not leave "when they saw the armies" but the people IN GENERAL fled when the city was finally destroyed, and they didn't  flee to the moutains but to other cities........

And what you say is UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH, and in no way a literal reading of Scripture.

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2 hours ago, DaveW said:

And yet the Bible clearly says:

3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

 5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

And DOESN'T make any link with Jerusalem the way you make up.

By the way, Jerusalem was not compassed by "Armies" but AN army, and the years it was compassed about about is hardly suddenly, and the Christians did not leave "when they saw the armies" but the people IN GENERAL fled when the city was finally destroyed, and they didn't  flee to the moutains but to other cities........

And what you say is UNBIBLICAL RUBBISH, and in no way a literal reading of Scripture.

                                                                                                                                                                                                                         3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? The tings Jesus was speaking about and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?     An unrelated question   to the comments by Jesus, He didn't say anything about his coming or the end of the world as you full well know.

In Matthew  23 and in 24 etc Jesus says this would all come upon that generation, Why?  That generation was the one that they crucified the Lord an Christ.  Not unbiblical rubbish at all.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

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2 hours ago, Invicta said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                         3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? The tings Jesus was speaking about and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?     An unrelated question   to the comments by Jesus, He didn't say anything about his coming or the end of the world as you full well know.

In Matthew  23 and in 24 etc Jesus says this would all come upon that generation, Why?  That generation was the one that they crucified the Lord an Christ.  

So He totally ignored their question and aswered something else even though he specifically says in answer to their Question:

 Matt 24

3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

 4  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

 5  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

 6  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

"the end" is clearly mentioned twice in this passage, once in a question and once in an answer, but acvording to you they are not at all related, but "the end" is actually related to Jerusalem and the economy of the Jews", neither of which are even mentioned in the chapter.

This is fun - I quote the Bible and show what it plainly says by bolding the words actually written by God , and you say I am wrong and that verses that are consecutive in the text are actually not even related to each other.

Let's think about that for a moment........

I will go with the Bible text thanks very much and leave your obvious twisting and reworking of Scripture to........ well, to those who like to  make things up to suit themselves.

 

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On Friday, December 09, 2016 at 9:05 AM, Invicta said:

                                                                                                                                                                                                                         3  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? The tings Jesus was speaking about and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?     An unrelated question   to the comments by Jesus, He didn't say anything about his coming or the end of the world as you full well know.

In Matthew  23 and in 24 etc Jesus says this would all come upon that generation, Why?  That generation was the one that they crucified the Lord an Christ.  Not unbiblical rubbish at all.                                                                                                                                          

Two things:

  • "As you full well know" implies that I am deliberately lying about this, which is an entirely offensive personal attack.
  • As to His coming and the end of the world - The Lord specifically warns them about those who say they are his prophets and who come in His name - and since the subject is His coming (as per the question that He is answering) it absolutely is talking about His coming, as is also His words about "the end" - the context put his "the end" as relating to the question they asked about "the end of the world".

For to suggest they are unrelated is laughable - even a child with a basic grasp of English can see the question and the following answer.

To suggest that the Answer of Jesus is unrelated to the question is only viable if you wish to ignore what the Bible says for some reason.

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21 hours ago, DaveW said:

Two things:

  • "As you full well know" implies that I am deliberately lying about this, which is an entirely offensive personal attack.
  • As to His coming and the end of the world - The Lord specifically warns them about those who say they are his prophets and who come in His name - and since the subject is His coming (as per the question that He is answering) it absolutely is talking about His coming, as is also His words about "the end" - the context put his "the end" as relating to the question they asked about "the end of the world".

For to suggest they are unrelated is laughable - even a child with a basic grasp of English can see the question and the following answer.

To suggest that the Answer of Jesus is unrelated to the question is only viable if you wish to ignore what the Bible says for some reason.

There were two quuestions.  

1st Regarding the destruction of the temple. When would that be and what is the sign.  That was fulfilled. The sign was the armies surrounding Jerusale.  Go to Jerusalem and look to see if the words of Jesus have not been fulfilled.

2nd "What sall be the sign of Thy coming and the end of thge world."  This was answered separately.  "But of that day and hour knoweth no man. ...."  Jesus then continues to show that his coming would be sudden, like in the days of Noah ond of Lot.  42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour  your Lord doth come.

It is told of the Antartic explorer, Shackleton,  that after his ship was destroyed in the Ice, he and his crew escaped to Elephanit Island.  Then Shackleton took the ships boat and a small crew and set off to row about 1000 miles to the island of South Georgia where he knew there was a whaling station, telling his crew that he would be back.  In the TV film of the incident, one of the crew said as he rowed into the distance "That is the last we will see of him," Shackleton eventually arrived at South Georgia  but on the wrong side of the Island and they had to walk over the frozon mountains to the whaling station where he borrowed a ship and set off back to rescue his men. When he arrived there was ice blocking his way then a channel suddenly appeaed in the ice and he managed to get to the island.  When he arrived he was surprised to see his men all packed up and ready tho go.  He asked one how they knew he was cpoming that day.  "We didn't" said the man; "[The man Shackleton had left in charge] said every day, "Pack up your sleeping bags, boys, the boss may come today" so whenver you came we would be ready,"  

That is how we should behave.  We don't know when he Lord will come, but when ever it happens, we should  be ready. 

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And still you ignore the actual verses that indicate that Jesus WAS INDEED addressing the questions asked.

Mat 24:3-6
(3)  And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
(4)  And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
(5)  For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
(6)  And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
 

Jesus answers BOTH questions in brief, and then explains more fully alter, BUT the end spoken of here in verse 6 is WITHOUT DOUBT the answer to the second part of the question in verse 3.

To suggest otherwise is simply to ignore basic English.

 

 

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No you are ignoring the scripture.  The end in verse 6 was the end of what Jesus was addressing, the ens of the woes described in Matt 23 and the temple in Matt 24.  There were wars and rumours of wars, Earthquakes and false christs and false prophets before that happened.  If Hesus was not describing the jewish war with the Romans, why did God send those judgements on Jerusalem and Judea?

 

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10 hours ago, Invicta said:

No you are ignoring the scripture.  The end in verse 6 was the end of what Jesus was addressing, the ens of the woes described in Matt 23 and the temple in Matt 24.  There were wars and rumours of wars, Earthquakes and false christs and false prophets before that happened.  If Hesus was not describing the jewish war with the Romans, why did God send those judgements on Jerusalem and Judea?

 

I am quoting scripture directly, not ignoring anything.

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Acts 11:27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 11:28 And there stood up one of them named Agabus, and signified by the Spirit that there should be great dearth throughout all the world: which came to pass in the days of Claudius Caesar.

Acts 11:29 Then the disciples, every man according to his ability, determined to send relief unto the brethren which dwelt in Judaea:

Acts 11:30 Which also they did, and sent it to the elders by the hands of Barnabas and Saul.

The dearth was throughout all the world, how much time did they have to prepare? They had to prepare or they would have nothing to send to Judea. Also, why do we have no prophets today? 

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