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The Grand Jury


ThePilgrim

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I am afraid you are totally wrong Miss Daisy.  OJ was as guilty as sin.  As far as the kid, the black thug. He appears to me to be a jerk and a punk.

My prOBlem with this whole Ferguson incident is not thinking that the dead kid was an angel.  Maybe he deserved to be blown away by a cop whom I think should have not been in a policemans uniform and maybe he did.  I will let God sort that out.  My prOBlem is with the way the whole fiasco was handled by the powers that be.  The man running the grand jury OBviously was not an unbiased person.  The governor of the state of Missouri should have appointed a special prosocutor from somewhere else in the state to handle the grand jury investigation, not someone so close to the Ferguson police department and the people in it.  If you really looked at the info I have posted on this site you know that the prosecutor has relatives who have served in the police department.  This was not an unbiased investigation and it was not intended to be.

It may not be worth much but that is my opinion.

 

I may not be very smart but I am not a left wing idealog who thinks people should be treated with kid gloves just because they are poor or black, or green for that matter.  How did OJ the butcher get into this thing anyway?

 

Sorry if I sound a little upset . . . . I am.  I do not think your innuendo was called for.

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If PO Wilson was kin to McCulloch, you might have a valid argument. But there is no evidence that he is.

The outcome would have been the same no matter which Prosecutor was brought in. There just was not enough convincing evidence against Wilson for it to go to trial.

Witnesses contradicted themselves, were proven that what they claimed happened never happened. Autopsies from three different sources, fanily/Defense, Prosecutor, & F.B.I. all came to the same conclusions in their examination of the body.

America needs to just accept he fact that Wilson was justified in his actions that fateful August afternoon.

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Why shouldn't officer Wilson been a cop?

 

Other than speculations from the liberal media there is no evidence the prosecutor has before or during this case been biased for or against anyone. To say that someone who has certain life experiences is incapable of being OBjective or carrying out their duties faithfully would mean nearly everyone would have to be removed from their post.

 

One of the reasons the prosecutor cited for sending this case before a Grand Jury was to place the evidence in the hands of twelve jurors to determine if there was any prOBable crime committed by the officer rather than him making the determination on his own (as he can do as the prosecutor).

 

Why are we not trusting the 12 jurors made the right decision after reviewing evidence, asking questions, even questioning the officer, for three months? Why is their ruling in this case the only one being complained about? No one is complaining about their ruling on any of the other cases they have determined over their term as a Grand Jury.

 

What did the officer do that was illegal? What did the officer do that wasn't in the line of duty and in a manner he would have employed with anyone else in a similar situation?

 

An over six foot man weighing about 300 pounds physically attacked the much smaller officer after he was told he needed to stop blocking traffic in the street. Afterwards this large man refused lawful orders to halt and put his hands up. Instead the large man turned and charged the officer at which point the officer fired his gun in self-defense.

 

Other than deciding to neglect his police duties and not confront the large man for blocking traffic what was the officer supposed to do other than what he did? What should have been a simple exchange:

 

Officer: "You can't walk in the street blocking traffic, move it to the sidewalk."

Offender: "Yes, sir." (followed by him actually going to the sidewalk)

Contact over.

 

Instead the large man walking in the street CHOSE to be rebellious, CHOSE to mouth off to the officer, CHOSE to assault the officer through the window of his vehicle, CHOSE to try and take the officers gun, CHOSE to refuse to halt and put his hands up, CHOSE to make an attack charge at the officer, CHOSE the risk of being shot and killed.

 

This large man was a part of a criminal street gang. There are pictures of him flashing their gang signs online, which is something these gangs won't tolerate anyone but their members doing. He had a history of being a bully and criminal. He had marijuana in his system at the time of the incident. Immediately prior to the incident he rOBbed, assaulted and threatened store clerk. He CHOSE to live that lifestyle which everyone knows leads to violence, prison and possible death.

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"What did the officer do that was illegal? What did the officer do that wasn't in the line of duty and in a manner he would have employed with anyone else in a similar situation?"

 

Why ask me these questions?  This was not a jury trial!  This was a grand jury investigation.  There was no cross examination of officer Wilson by an opposing attorney.  The only attorney in the room that questioned officer Wilson was the prosecutor and he was not being adversarial as he would be in any other grand jury investigation.  The purpose of a prosecutor in a grand jury situation is to get an indictment.  The purpose of this particular grand jury was not to get an indictment.

 

As far as the jurors asking guestions of officer wilson or any of the other witnesses.  Did they cross examine as an experienced atttrial attorney would.  How can anybody think they could.  The prosecutor led them through this thing toward his own ends which was for the city, state and federal governments to end this whole affair.  "If a prosecuting attorney wants to get an indictment against a ham sandwich he will get one."  That is not a quote from me but from an attorney.

 

So, it is not possible for me to know the truth or falsity of what officer wilson says.

 

As far as what would have happened if the grand jury had returned a true bill.  OBviously this whole case would have gone before a judge and a jury.  The charge would have been for manslaughter and not murder as is constantly intimated, because noone but the extremely biased believes it was murder.  Those who use the word murder in this case are using extreme hyperboly.  The charge would have been involuntary manslaughter.  In all prOBability officer Wilson would have been exonerated.

 

Why go through all this.  Because if you or I or any other members of this forum had killed a man on the street and all the hoohaw followed that followed this incident we would have been indicted and tryed by a judge and jury.

 

This country supposedly is governed by laws, not by men.  That being the case is it proper and rational to raise a class of citizens called law enforcement above the law. . . . beyond the reach of justice.  Some are held above the law an that is why only a few have any respect for the law left.  You may have. . . . I may have. . . . but few have.  That is why all the crazies and criminals and just plain citizens are out in the streets of America today raising a ruckus.  You may think they are all just crazies and criminals, but they are not.  There are those who are sick and tired of the way they are being treated by the people who have been placed in power over them and (I suppose it makes me a unchristian) I am one of them.  I don't go out in the street and rabble rouse and demonstrate because, well thats just not me.  

 

Land of the Free, home of the Brave, and JUSTICE for all is what we are told we have from our first breath we breath in this land.  It is what we were promised, it is what we should expect, it is what we should get, and we ain't gettin' it!  So what do a people do?  You know all people aren't christian, all people aren't like you and me, some people are not as level headed as we are (well you anyway, not so sure about the levelness of my head).  When some people lose everthing they think they can afford to lose they lose it, those are the times we are in.

 

Anyway to end this diatribe, I will say this.  If this whole incident had been handled in a proper manner according to law there would undoubtedly be people in the streets causing trouble . . . . there would just be a lot less of them.  Peace.

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Those raising a ruckus are not criminals?  Hmmm, throwing bottles at police, throwing rocks at police, breaking and entering business establishments, vandalizing, arson, shooting firearms in public, etc..

Not sure what town you live in, Pilgrim, but I am pretty sure throughout the rest of America those acts are criminal acts.  And those committing those acts are criminals, whether you want to admit it or not.

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Those raising a ruckus are not criminals?  Hmmm, throwing bottles at police, throwing rocks at police, breaking and entering business establishments, vandalizing, arson, shooting firearms in public, etc..

Not sure what town you live in, Pilgrim, but I am pretty sure throughout the rest of America those acts are criminal acts.  And those committing those acts are criminals, whether you want to admit it or not.

What I actually said: That is why all the crazies and criminals and just plain citizens are out in the streets of America today raising a ruckus.  You may think they are all just crazies and criminals, but they are not.  There are those who are sick and tired of the way they are being treated by the people who have been placed in power over them and (I suppose it makes me a unchristian) I am one of them.  I don't go out in the street and rabble rouse and demonstrate because, well thats just not me.  

 

Please quote me and not twist what I said.

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Over here, the Police Complaints Commission would have to investigate any death at the hands of police.  They would take evidence from witnesses and make a considered judgment over a period of time.  Meanwhile the officer concerned would prOBably be suspended till the result of the enquiry was announced and then he would either be charged or reinstated.  

 

Over there you seem to have a kangaroo court which reaches a verdict in a few hours.  When the riots which should have been OBvious after such a verdict, I saw om TV a police force and National Guard, in a black area in which every face was white, looking like an occupation force.  

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Something I just came across this morning: "We Are the Enemy: Is This the Lesson of Ferguson?"

 

http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/11/john-w-whitehead/the-purpose-of-racism/

I agree the federalizing of the police forces, turning them into quasi-military forces trained to have an "us vs. them" mentality, trained to conduct affairs in a military manner, is a real prOBlem.

 

This, however, doesn't seem to have a bearing on the incident between Brown and Wilson. That case is clearly one of a large criminal-minded man choosing to attack an officer of the law asking him to stop walking in the street. When a six-foot-plus, 300 pound man charges at you, even with you holding a gun, that's a clear sign of danger and justifiable cause to use deadly force to protect your life.

 

What happened afterward was a mess by nearly all around. The blacks in the area proceeded to fabricate stories and spread lies about Brown and the incident. The media spread the lies as fact and even once revealed to be lies they either continued to spread some of them or simply dropped them without explaining they did so because they were untrue. The police force went into military mode.

 

Two days after this incident a black police officer shot and killed an unarmed young white man. There was no media interest since that story couldn't be used to fuel racial fires as they like.

 

While there are still some good cops out there, it's becoming increasingly difficult for them to do their jOBs as they should due to pressure from above. I know of several State, county and local police who retired early or simply switched careers because they refused to become a part of what the police force was being turned into. Several of the State officers tried to raise public awareness of the prOBlems, not only the turning of the police into a military force but also the use of the police to target "soft targets" for the sake of raising revenue for the State through the mass issuance of fines while "hard targets", real criminals, were not being pursued with the full force of the law.

 

The Grand Jury system is a part of the justice system that's not new. NOBody complains about the use of Grand Juries unless there is a high profile "sensitive" case that a Grand Jury rules on in a way certain folks don't like.

 

The American police forces should be returned to local control and restored to being true police forces made up as much as possible of locals who care about the community and people and hold to the "old" concept of "to serve and protect". This won't happen, especially with the vast powers in the hands of the Republican created, unconstitutional Department of Homeland Security.

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Over here, the Police Complaints Commission would have to investigate any death at the hands of police.  They would take evidence from witnesses and make a considered judgment over a period of time.  Meanwhile the officer concerned would prOBably be suspended till the result of the enquiry was announced and then he would either be charged or reinstated.  

 

Over there you seem to have a kangaroo court which reaches a verdict in a few hours.  When the riots which should have been OBvious after such a verdict, I saw om TV a police force and National Guard, in a black area in which every face was white, looking like an occupation force.  

Actually, here anytime a police officer fires his gun there is an internal investigation. Anytime there is a death caused by a policeman he is placed on desk duty or suspended from duty until after an internal investigation.

 

In the case at hand, a Grand Jury of 12 individuals spent three months hearing from over 50 witnesses, over 50 experts in various fields, going over three separate autopsy reports conducted by three separate medical examiners, and they also thoroughly questioned the officer. During this entire time the officer was suspended from duty.

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What I actually said: That is why all the crazies and criminals and just plain citizens are out in the streets of America today raising a ruckus.  You may think they are all just crazies and criminals, but they are not.  There are those who are sick and tired of the way they are being treated by the people who have been placed in power over them and (I suppose it makes me a unchristian) I am one of them.  I don't go out in the street and rabble rouse and demonstrate because, well thats just not me.  

 

Please quote me and not twist what I said.

Where were these people when Brown was growing up and turning to a life of crime? What was his family, neighbors, community leaders, school teachers and others around there doing as Brown got involved in drugs, booze, criminal activities, gang affiliation, bullying and intimidation?

 

The time for people to act is before something tragic happens, not sit back and watch as their families fall apart and their children become criminals.

 

There is a group of black pastors who have been trying to help in Ferguson but they keep getting shut out. Most of the people don't want to hear about the real solutions to their prOBlems because they require personal responsibility, planning, work and time. Most of the people want to blame others for their prOBlems and demand the government fix everything by giving them handouts and pouring other peoples tax money into their communities.

 

Forty blacks in one weekend get killed in Chicago and the media, community organizers and "civil rights" crowd say nothing because it's blacks killing blacks over criminal activities. They don't want to face, confront and work to fix this prOBlem.

 

An incident they can try to turn into a racial confrontation they jump all over, take to looting and destruction and make calls for the government to fix everything. After some media attention and millions of dollars of tax payers money being dumped upon them things go back to the way they were before.

 

If these people wanted to change things they would take responsibility and work to change things themselves. Others have done so and these people tend to call those who have "sell outs", "white wannabees" "house negroes", "Oreos", "Uncle Tom's", and much worse.

 

We live in a sin fallen world and those who walk with the devil suffer the consequences.

 

The same thing we send missionaries to do for the needy in foreign countries is what many communities in America need. They need missionaries taking them the Gospel, teaching them life skills, teaching them how to live as God says we should, helping them to be able to care for and provide for themselves and helping them to be able to teach and disciple others.

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On the other side of the story....the Brown family was given a lot of special privileges...one is that they were allowed to hire their OWN private autopsy and it was given as evidence.  Wilson was not given the opportunity to privately hire his own doctor to do an autopsy.  The Brown family had an advantage in the Grand Jury proceedings, yet the decision still went with Wilson.  The physical evidence backed up the story told by Wilson and by other witnesses.

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I give up on this one.  I was fooled by the fact that the MSM is constantly lying to me so I couldn't recognize that they were telling me the truth on this one.  Silly me.  :icon_redface:

The MSM turned this into a racial incident, which it wasn't, has attempted to paint the offender as an innocent child, which he wasn't, and attempted to paint the officer as shooting a child with their hands in the air surrendering, which isn't what happened.

 

After the Grand Jury decision the MSM has been ignoring the facts while presenting emotion-laden arguments and worn out racist charges.

 

If one went by the MSM they would never know the truth.

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