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When Does One Say, "enough"?


Ukulelemike

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Hate to be the monkey in your wrench Mike but if we cornered most on this forum they would believe you are not Scripturally qualified to pastor.
By your own admission you are divorced and remarried.
 
If the husband of one wife means what most think it means then it stands to reason that this calling of yours was against Scripture (therefore in your mind only-hence the desire to be called reverend).
 
In reality you would not even be allowed to candidate at any church I know of so think before you say how mean spirited this post is. I think everyone would say the same thing if you attempted to candidate at their church.
 
Now, if that is not what the qualifications mean then all who reply please say that first in your rebuttal because there is no gray area. It either means it or it don't. The Bible doesn't say "husband of one wife, unless of course you have a sOB story"
 
Perhaps you should face that reality head on when you wonder why no Spiritual blessings are on the church. I am not calling you out friend but it does surprise me if you had never wondered on this? Maybe it is time to give the hOBby church up. Maybe it was never supposed to be. You do make a living with the government, correct?
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Scripture doesn't say a pastor cannot have been divorced and remarried.  It simply says "the husband of one wife." 

If Mike is divorced from another, he is no longer that one's husband.

What did Paul say in 1 Corinthians?  "Art thou loosed from a wife?  Seek not to be bound.  But, and if thou canst contain, marry.  For it is better to marry than to burn."

So, I would not necessarily disqualify Mike based on his remarriage.  I would have to have more detail.  Such as, 'Is his first wife still alive?'  According to the guidelines set forth by Romans 7:1-4, we see that an woman who divorces a man and remarries while her ex-husband is still alive, shall be called an adulterer as long as her ex is still alive.    Does the same "adultery" rule apply to men as with women?  In my opinion, yes.

That said, I would not necessarily vote against a remarried man for a pastoral position, unless I knew that his first wife was still alive. 

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My My, what a wonderfully encouraging post you have written Wretched. Nothing like kicking a guy when he is down.

 

 Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

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show me in the Bible where it says a divorced man cannot preach? Not your interpretation of a verse.

I'd rather have a divorced preacher who's a great husband and father who preaches the word of God than a horrible father and husband of the same woman for 30 years.

one wife, not a concubine, not a harem, not a Mormon wives club, but ONE faithful wife

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Scripture does not say a divorced man cannot preach. However, it does say the Bishop of the Church is to be "above reproach". Would having the tag of adulterer until his first wife die not be considered to be a reproach?

Just something to think about...

edited to add: Before someone reminds me that "we all sin," I need to point out that I know we all sin. However, not every sin is as blatantly manifest as that of adultery.

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My My, what a wonderfully encouraging post you have written Wretched. Nothing like kicking a guy when he is down.

 

 Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

Its alright, Jim, this is an issue I have dealt with, and am at peace with. And of course, I need to hear those with, maybe not so comroftable positions, as well as those comforting, and I appreciate his frankness, and the spirit it was given in.

 

Simply, my wife left me for another man, who she lived with, while we were still married, as his wife, even taking a ring from him. Even with that, I spent three years trying to 'win' her back. In this, she has repudiated Christ and His church, and has lived as an unsaved person, causing me to believe she was never saved in the first place. She has embraced Wicca, to some extent, and a very hedonistic lifestyle, including BDSM and nudity, and I suspect, some amount of bisexuality.

 

According to God's word, if an unbeliever abandons a believer, the brother is not in bondage to her.

 

So, due to adultery, abandonment and a clearly unsaved lifestyle since, (we're talking 21 years here), I am not biblically bound to her in any way, and thus, there is nothing saying I could not be remarried.  I am the husband of one wife, by biblical description, and to try to say otherwise is moving outside of scripture to man's opinion.

 

And not to hijack my own thread, but this bring to mind a question I have had: Does the Lord recognize as legitimate a marriage between a saved person and an unsaved person, when the marriage is clearly outside of His revealed will?  Does a subsequent divorce become another sin, or is it seeing to the first sin? Or, having committed the first sin, do we continue in that sin, or does God bless it and accept it once its done?

 

As far as being above reproach, in whose eyes? Man's? If that's the case, no one can be qualified. In God's? Then that means one must be born again, because then, all sin is under the blood, and he is justified and above reproach.

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I agree. Marriage picture the relationship between Christ and His church, which is why WHO we marry is so important, because if we marry wrong, we show an incorreect picture, like a church following a false messiah, or if Jesus was head over a false religious group. So, if a believer marries a non-believer, is it considered a legitimate marriage, being clearly against God's revealed will? 

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1 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)
5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 

 

I would find it difficult to accept marriage and family counseling from my pastor if he was not able to keep his own marriage together or his kids were in open rebellion to God.  There needs to be solid testimony among the flock that God's way works.  

 

Brother Mike, I love you dearly as a fellow brother in Christ, and I feel there are a lot of ministries open to a divorced man.  Even a preaching ministry such as evangelism, but not one where you are the shepherd of a flock.  

 

I know I have been away from this forum for weeks.  I have been struggling mightily with a couple of classes this term (CCNA Cisco networking which is 16 credit hours for certification so I have a long way to go, and C#, and C++ programming) at school and I spend almost all my free time buried in homework and study.  I hate coming on after weeks and  making such a negative sounding post.

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory. 

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1 Timothy 3:5 (KJV)
5  (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 

 

I would find it difficult to accept marriage and family counseling from my pastor if he was not able to keep his own marriage together or his kids were in open rebellion to God.  There needs to be solid testimony among the flock that God's way works.  

 

Brother Mike, I love you dearly as a fellow brother in Christ, and I feel there are a lot of ministries open to a divorced man.  Even a preaching ministry such as evangelism, but not one where you are the shepherd of a flock.  

 

I know I have been away from this forum for weeks.  I have been struggling mightily with a couple of classes this term (CCNA Cisco networking which is 16 credit hours for certification so I have a long way to go, and C#, and C++ programming) at school and I spend almost all my free time buried in homework and study.  I hate coming on after weeks and  making such a negative sounding post.

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory. 

As I said brother, its all good. If I ask advice in a forum such as this, I know that not everyone sees things as I do, so I expect the negative with the positive-really, its all positive, because its all a part of wise counsel. In the multitude of counselors there is wisdom. Thanks.

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Regarding the marriage issue, I will admit that there have been many times when this has come to my mind as a pastor, and many times, I have prayed and told the Lord that I would gladly step down if I was not the one to be a pastor, but it was necessary that someone be there to take the pulpit first. I would not leave it and shut it down, and leave all those attending, (back then) without a church, because those there were not able nor willing to do so. And it was always a very serious thing. But no one came, no one willing, no one remotely qualified or able. I tried raising people up, but as they grew, they often moved away, or in a couple cases, decided they had 'outgrown' me as their pastor, and now, aren't going anywhere, telling me they hadn't ourgrown anything, just got out. BUt in all the time I have been here, I have been willing to step down, if I was not qualified in the Lord's eyes, but I wasn't willing to just shut it down while there were those who needed a church.

 

So it may be the case, if those saying I am unqualified due to divorce, that the Lord used me because no one else was willing, until such time as people filter out, and there is no longer the need, or maybe I have been qualified, because the Bible doesn't say one who is divorced can't be a bishop, just a husband of one wife, which, according to scripture, I am.

 

as for not being able to rule my house, it takes two to make a marriage, but one can break it. Many good, godly men, even pastors, have had wives walk out on them, for no reason other than their own selfishness-I suppose each one then becomes unqualified. I guess God was shocked when He ordained them and led them to be pastors, that they would sudden;ly be no longer qualified due to no fault of their own. I made my mistakes early on in my marriage, and I repented of those things, to my wife and to God, and it was many years later before she chose to leave for another man. In fact, ultimately, by her own admission, it was because I had given myself to service as a pastor that was her deciding point; she didn't want to be married to a pastor, so she left.

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Don't confuse the call to preach the Word with a call to be a Pastor.  You may very well be gifted and called to preach, but as an evangelist (like unmarried Paul) not as a Pastor.  There is a strong argument that Paul was married at one time since one of the requirements of being a member of the Sanhedrin was marriage.  I don't know of a single Christian who believes Paul wasn't the ultimate servant of God though never a Pastor.

 

Bro. Garry

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If I were to agree, then my question remians the same: Do I walk away, declaring myself unqualified to pastor, allow the church to shut down, and those few still there to be left berift? I am willing to travel to Reno, 60 miles, to go to a good church, and that's about the closest. If they aren't willing to come in the evening when they live three miles away, they will not go to Reno, and thus, they are left with nothing. Not sure that's God's will, either. Even a woman was used by God to judge Israel when no one 'qualified' was found.

 

This is one of the difficulties I have had. Isn't it better to give them something, than nothing? Especially the weak, immature who won't do the hard work, but will, at least sometimes, come somewhere close.

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By the way, in regards to doing other work, I have long noticed a need for a circuit-riding type ministry in the surrounding areas. We have a stretch of highway, about 150 miles long, with no good IFB work. The living areas, after a point, are sparse, but there are people there, in the woods, and along the river, that might go somewhere if it was nearby. However, I suspect such a work might be better for a younger man with energy I don't have.

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