Sheep, Shepherd, Or Wolf?

[DaveW]

What branch of Pentecostals believes one can lose their salvation? I've never personally met a Pentecostal who had that view.

I've never personally met a pentecostal that DIDN'T have that view......

[John81]

Glen Lowery, Pastor, Pace Assembly of God, Pace, Fl --  "I could be a Baptist if it wasn't for that damnable Baptist doctrine of eternal security."

 

"Bro. Dave", Pastor, Huntsville Community Holiness, Huntsville, Al -- "If a woman pierces her ears she damns her soul to Hell."

 

Those are two that I've heard personally.

I don't know what the pastor of the nearest Assemblies of God teaches, but the pastor there many years ago taught eternal security.

 

Assemblies of God churches seem to be all over the place as to what they believe, teach and how they conduct themselves. I read somewhere there are only limited requirements for a church to become a part of the AoG and other than that, they are pretty independent.

 

I do know the last pastor of the nearest Assemblies of God I saw in action was an out there Charismatic. TOTALLY different than the pastor he replaced.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

What branch of Pentecostals believes one can lose their salvation? I've never personally met a Pentecostal who had that view.

My late mother was Pentecostal, and she held that position.  She even told me back in 2001 that she was saved in her teens, but got away from Church and did some bad things, causing her to lose her Salvation.

I never could get her to understand the seal of Salvation was unbreakable.

edited to add:  Oh, she does believe that, though she lost her Salvation, she was saved again in her late 20's.

 

[John81]

My late mother was Pentecostal, and she held that position.  She even told me back in 2001 that she was saved in her teens, but got away from Church and did some bad things, causing her to lose her Salvation.

I never could get her to understand the seal of Salvation was unbreakable.

We have a woman in our church who came from a church (not Pentecostal) that taught one could lose salvation and even now after being in our church for many years and learning the truth, she still has a hard time shaking what she was taught all those years ago and spent most of her life believing.

 

I can kind of relate to the fear and worry and stress this brings upon so many who are taught they can lose their salvation. I grew up attending Methodist Sunday school and while they never taught one could lose their salvation (no real salvation teaching at all), what I did learn was that I had to be "good" to go to heaven and if I wasn't "good enough" God would punish me and God and devil were always looking for reasons to "get me".

 

As a child and through most of my teens I worried about just what "good enough" was; feeling like I prOBably wasn't, while looking over my shoulder for God to zap me or looking down at my feet waiting for the devil to reach up out of hell and trip me.

 

What a relief when very shortly after my 18th birthday I was born again and told the biblical truth that my salvation was forever secure. Even so, it took some time and more teaching on the matter to fully drive those old, false notions from my thinking.

[HappyChristian]

I've never personally met a pentecostal that DIDN'T have that view......

Me, either. One of my grandpas was a pentacostal preacher...he believed that, as did my dad's entire family - a whole slew of people spread out in a lot of churches in WVA. And all of the folks they married, etc. Interestingly enough, the only ones that believed in eternal security were my dad and one of his brothers-both of whom left WVA and got saved while in the Navy - and became Baptist.(my uncle was led to the Lord by Paul Chappel and in turn led my dad to the Lord. But because of his earlier training, my dad wrestled with doubt for a number of years. God gave him victory.)

There are some that seem to teach eternal security, but when you really nail them down, there is almost always something that can cause loss of salvation. The great majority teach that you must live a certain way to stay saved. Pereservere to the end...

[beameup]

That first video is childish nonsense, in the sense of the way that it was edited.  Foolishness. 

Ruckman has been hated from the beginning because of his stand for the King James

and his criticism and rejection of the so-called superior "modern translations".

[John81]

There aren't that many Pentecostals around here so my personal contact with such is limited. Those few I have personally known must be on the more conservative side of Pentecostals.

 

Thank you to those who took the time to give some details on some Pentecostal beliefs. I'll keep these things in mind for any future talks with Pentecostals to help guide any discussions with them.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

When you confront those Pentecostals, ask them why they have catchers to catch those slain in the Spirit? I say, move out of the way and let them fall. If it truly is the Spirit, why hinder His work? Let them fall with the force He knocked them down.

Of course, there is a chance they will stand up immediately and manifest what spirit really prompted them to fall. LOL

[HappyChristian]

Not all of them have catchers. One of my cousins (grandson of two pentecostal preachers - my gpa and his mom's dad as well) married the daughter of another pentecostal preacher (I'm telling you....).  I had the, erm, privilege of going to one of the services (sadly, my sister "spoke in tongues" that night - sometimes phony, but my sister was definitely in a trance...scary stuff) at his church and saw some so slain, falling to the ground. Of course, there were no cameras...

 

 

John, I'd bet if you dig deep enough, the pentecostals you know would admit that they believe in eternal security as long as they didn't do some certain sin. In my aunt's case, it was smoking. In my mother-in-law's case (she was raised pentecostal, became Baptist but didn't completely give up some of her training), it would be murder. Yes, I know that is egregious, but she was adamant that anyone who killed someone would lose their salvation. Now, there is some argument that mayhap they wouldn't have been really saved, but that aside, murder wouldn't cause loss.  In one of my hubby's uncle's case, it was divorce.  Etc.

[Alimantado]

Echoing others, every Pentecostal I've heard speak on the matter--mostly AOG--has said that they believe salvation can be lost. Oneness Pentecostals also reject the Trinity and believe that 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' is necessary for salvation, i.e. if you haven't spoken in tongues then you are not saved. Don't think there are many of that kind of Pentecostal, though.

[HappyChristian]

 Oneness Pentecostals also reject the Trinity and believe that 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' is necessary for salvation, i.e. if you haven't spoken in tongues then you are not saved. Don't think there are many of that kind of Pentecostal, though.

Two of my dad's brothers married sisters who were daughters of a pentecostal preacher.  While my gpa didn't teach that speaking in tongues was necessary for salvation, my aunts believed that so I'm assuming that's what their dad taught. 

[OLD fashioned preacher]

When you confront those Pentecostals, ask them why they have catchers to catch those slain in the Spirit? I say, move out of the way and let them fall. If it truly is the Spirit, why hinder His work? Let them fall with the force He knocked them down.

Of course, there is a chance they will stand up immediately and manifest what spirit really prompted them to fall. LOL

"Slain in the Spirit"? I find it in the Bible, Ananias and Sapphira. Of course, they didn't get back up afterwards!!

[OLD fashioned preacher]

Not all of them have catchers. One of my cousins (grandson of two pentecostal preachers - my gpa and his mom's dad as well) married the daughter of another pentecostal preacher (I'm telling you....).  I had the, erm, privilege of going to one of the services (sadly, my sister "spoke in tongues" that night - sometimes phony, but my sister was definitely in a trance...scary stuff) at his church and saw some so slain, falling to the ground. Of course, there were no cameras...

 

 

John, I'd bet if you dig deep enough, the pentecostals you know would admit that they believe in eternal security as long as they didn't do some certain sin. In my aunt's case, it was smoking. In my mother-in-law's case (she was raised pentecostal, became Baptist but didn't completely give up some of her training), it would be murder. Yes, I know that is egregious, but she was adamant that anyone who killed someone would lose their salvation. Now, there is some argument that mayhap they wouldn't have been really saved, but that aside, murder wouldn't cause loss.  In one of my hubby's uncle's case, it was divorce.  Etc.

Along with Pentecostals, I've known some Baptists who believed that if you committed suicide you went to Hell. (Catholic doctrine)

[HappyChristian]

Along with Pentecostals, I've known some Baptists who believed that if you committed suicide you went to Hell. (Catholic doctrine)

This is true. But her belief was rooted in her pentecostal background. She also believed that speaking in tongues was okay because her mom had done it. 

[heartstrings]

I can do it......

Shine my Shoe, tie my bowtie

Shine my Shoe, tie my bowtie

Shine my Shoe tie my bowtie Shine my Shoe tie my bowtie Shine my Shoe tie my bowtie Shine my Shoe tie my bowtie

 

I was talking with some Pentecostal guys at work, many years ago, and tried that on them. (I know, young and foolish). Anyway, one of them said I was "blaspheming the Holy Ghost" but he was smirking and chuckling when he said it, so I don't think he really believed what he was saying.