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Saved , Unsaved, Then Saved Again?

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Thanks, ANBN. The fact that you and Washed Clean 'both' believe the doctrine of Hell is false, 'both' believe that everyone is saved through Jesus' sacrifice on the cross whether they believe in Him or not, and 'both' have started espousing this view within hours of each other further supports my claim that you are both the same person, or at the very least are two people working together.

 

They also look alike! 

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Dave W, you are like the schoolyard coward that sneaks in and throws the sneaky little girly punch while the fight is still in progress....you have described yourself perfectly in your intro picture statement..."DUMB"

This comment is uncalled for. While I have not read 1/2 of the comments on this thread, this post is not what Online Baptist is about. Please refrain from personal attacks. 

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Hi DaveW, thanks for responding. why would I want to remove parts of the bible from the bible ? Because it is an incomplete inaccurate representation of what God was actually trying to say. It is merely a canonised collection of books put together by a bunch of men with an agenda. How is it not possible Christians cannot see the contradictions and Pauline tainted version of events as depicted in the bible. I have to ask the same question. Given how contradictory Paul's version of Christianity is to the real message Jesus was trying to get across why would you NOT want to remove parts of the bible. One thing I found when I was attending church every weekend was that the constant corruption of telling me the bible was the infallible word of God simply did not line up with the Jesus I was reading about in books other than the Pauline books, it polluted my mind from seeing the real Jesus. You see I LOVE Jesus now not because I have to not swear ( I do) not because I have to not drink ( I do ) not because I have to dress a certain way but because I AM FREEEEEEE. Jesus came to set the captive free  !!!!!!!! He set me free from the LAW, he paid it ALL, he did it ALL he is THE MAN and Paul is a sad little egotistical man still trying to get people to live by a set of rules to gain their salvation. answer me this people here on this forum................are you really free ? I am.

 

Uh... you are aware of course, that the God of the Old Testament is the Jesus Christ of the New Testament, aren't you?

So what you state here is nonsense.

 

The God who wrote all the 'thou shalt nots' said them for our good. Not just to pen us in to his 'rules'.

You seem to think salvation was 'earned' in the OT. You are wrong.

What God put down in the Bible as 'laws' were 'posted' to God's people to show them how to live safely, and how to live pure and honest lives, for our good!

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Well, though my time here was short, it did prove one thing again, the IFB cult definitely attracts a certain very narrow group of personality types.

Dropping into sites like this is like visiting different circuses when they come to town...its a different circus, but the freak show is the same.

 

Unable to accept , discuss rationally, or tolerate ideas different to those parroted week after week from the pulpit by Pharisee's like "Big Stick Wielder", soldier ants like Al are sent out to mindlessly scurry about and nip away at the threat and just generally muddy the waters. Ably assisted by the blind drones such as DaveW and Runny who sneak in and dispense a volume of useless dribble to the discussion.

Ultimately the heretic is worn down and goes away, and once again the cult is safe, the mind control, and brainwashing can continue unabated.

 

This pattern is standard fare not only on site like this, but in every IFB churche I have been in contact with. In fact far from being "Independent" every church is simply another outpost of squinty eyed, buck toothed bigots singing off the same hymn sheet.

 

Jesus' words, as recorded from Luke 7:31 onwards, describes your kind exactly..read it and weep, people, you are "of this generation"

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Well, though my time here was short, it did prove one thing again, the IFB cult definitely attracts a certain very narrow group of personality types.

Dropping into sites like this is like visiting different circuses when they come to town...its a different circus, but the freak show is the same.

 

Unable to accept , discuss rationally, or tolerate ideas different to those parroted week after week from the pulpit by Pharisee's like "Big Stick Wielder", soldier ants like Al are sent out to mindlessly scurry about and nip away at the threat and just generally muddy the waters. Ably assisted by the blind drones such as DaveW and Runny who sneak in and dispense a volume of useless dribble to the discussion.

Ultimately the heretic is worn down and goes away, and once again the cult is safe, the mind control, and brainwashing can continue unabated.

 

This pattern is standard fare not only on site like this, but in every IFB churche I have been in contact with. In fact far from being "Independent" every church is simply another outpost of squinty eyed, buck toothed bigots singing off the same hymn sheet.

 

Jesus' words, as recorded from Luke 7:31 onwards, describes your kind exactly..read it and weep, people, you are "of this generation"

 

And the band plays on...

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Well, though my time here was short, it did prove one thing again, the IFB cult definitely attracts a certain very narrow group of personality types.
Dropping into sites like this is like visiting different circuses when they come to town...its a different circus, but the freak show is the same.

Unable to accept , discuss rationally, or tolerate ideas different to those parroted week after week from the pulpit by Pharisee's like "Big Stick Wielder", soldier ants like Al are sent out to mindlessly scurry about and nip away at the threat and just generally muddy the waters. Ably assisted by the blind drones such as DaveW and Runny who sneak in and dispense a volume of useless dribble to the discussion.
Ultimately the heretic is worn down and goes away, and once again the cult is safe, the mind control, and brainwashing can continue unabated.

This pattern is standard fare not only on site like this, but in every IFB churche I have been in contact with. In fact far from being "Independent" every church is simply another outpost of squinty eyed, buck toothed bigots singing off the same hymn sheet.

Jesus' words, as recorded from Luke 7:31 onwards, describes your kind exactly..read it and weep, people, you are "of this generation"

Thank you for you final diatribe.
By it, and comparing your words against me to my words against you, any future reader will see the truth of your spirit and the spirit that is in you.
It is a simple comparison that is made:
Whilst I did use the term "false teacher" in regard to you, I then explained my reasoning for doing so. You on the other hand descended into personal abuse, name calling, and attempted ridicule.
Which is more Christ like?

As to me being a dumb bloke - this I freely admit - I am just dumb enough to believe that when God moved his holy men they spake the words of the Holy Ghost, and that because of this, all Scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God (even this dumb bloke) may be perfect throughly furnished unto all good works. Edited by DaveW

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And these verses exactly describe "your kind." sir.

 

 Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disOBedient, and unto every good work reprOBate.

 

 1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

 

It's a blessing for us that you move on to some other site where they don't know how to handle heretical messengers of Satan.

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...soldier ants like Al are sent out to mindlessly scurry about and nip away at the threat and just generally muddy the waters.

 

Hooray, I got a name check!

 

I'm not surprised you get the same reception everywhere you go, ANBN. After all, no matter what it is you want to discuss, no-one's going to want to talk with you if you bring dishonesty and a bad attitude.

 

You could have come here and just been open with us: said that you believe very differently to us and want to know if we'd like to discuss it. Folk have certainly done that before and Matt has opened up the floor. Once he set up an 'ask the atheist' section of the board for a visiting atheist. All very civil.

 

But instead you chose to play games with people (that username nonsense--of course you knew what the word meant), set up sockpuppets, lie about your reasons for coming here, hoodwink people about your real beliefs, make snarky and sarcastic comments and finally all out insult folk with the kind of childish nonsense you directed at Dave.

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And these verses exactly describe "your kind." sir.

 

 Tit 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.
 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disOBedient, and unto every good work reprOBate.

 

 1Ti 1:18 This charge I commit unto thee, son Timothy, according to the prophecies which went before on thee, that thou by them mightest war a good warfare;
 19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
 20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

 

It's a blessing for us that you move on to some other site where they don't know how to handle heretical messengers of Satan.

Now tell us, how do you really feel? :icon_mrgreen:

 

:thumb:

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Actually John, since you asked, even in jest. I feel a bit sad at having to pen in such a manner. I did it because I could not think or write in this manner:

 

 Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

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WC:  just had a chance to see some of your beliefs such as this quote from "Paul the Heretic"       It still amazes me that Christian even bother to give Paul the time of day. To me is prOBably one of the most evil dangerous destructive men in all of history.

 

So, you apparently don't believe that Romans through Hebrews (or some stop at Philemon) are Scripture.

But you also must think Acts and I Peter and II Peter are not and that Luke and Peter were spiritually ignorant due to the following verses saying:

 

Acts 13:9  Then Saul, (who also is called Paul,) filled with the Holy Ghost, set his eyes on him,
Acts 19:6  And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

 

II Pe 3:15-16  And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;  As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
 

You have claimed Paul's epistles to not be Scripture in direct contradiction to the Word of God in II Pet 3:16 OR ELSE you claim that Paul, Luke and Peter were ALL 3 heretics and that 16-17 books of the N.T. are not Scripture.

 

Either way, when I get back tonight (2 Nov 14) around 9pm Mountain Standard time (that's 3pm Monday 3 Nov 14 your time or about 5 and a quarter hours from this posting) I am banning you unless I get a Private Message from Bro Matt (the administrator of this site) giving you a reprieve.

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Going to try and address two things in this opost. Here is the first:

Christians usually agree that babies that die are taken to Heaven, ie, are "saved". The main scriptural example being when King David acknowledged that he would see his dead baby son again as recorded in 2 Samuel 12.

 

So, considering the fact that all adults alive once must have saved babies, why do they then have to be saved again as adults....at what point in their development do babies become unsaved and then must be resaved as adults?,

 

This is a difficult question, particularly in the light of scripture such as John 10 : 28 where eternal salvation is assured, once given, and never taken away.

 

Comments please?

 

 

"Study to shew thyself approved..."  2 Tim 2:15

 

First, babies are not 'saved', babies, infants, ("infinks", if you're Popeye), are born with sin, but it is dead, or perhaps, hibernating, if you will.

 

Paul said of himself, "But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."

 

What does he mean here, 'I was alive without the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revivied and I died'?  The only thing that makes sense, is that, without the law, means before he could grasp the law, before he had the ability to understand of the law and its consequences, he was alive, alive unto the Lord, in innocency. The law could not be applied against one who has no ablity to understand and thus, live acording to the law.

  BUT, when the commandment came, when he had the ablity to understand sin and the law and its consequences, THEN sin revivied, (it was there but ineffective against him before), and he died, he fell under the consequences of the law.

 

People like to talk about an 'age of accountability'. I don't see an age, I see an understanding. When one can knowingly do wrong, knowing it is wrong, knowing there is a consequence, and yet willingly do wrong, then sin revives, and that person dies.  So, people with mental issues where they cannot grasp right and wrong and eternal conseqences, prOBably are never under condemnation, regardless of age.

 

So its not a matter of being saved, then not saved, then saved again, it is about being innocent, and then guilty, due to understanding.

 

Next issue:

 

Ok first of all I don't know about you people but there is NO way I am worshiping a God who send babies to Hell. Call me picky but to do so is neither loving nor just. You can try to ignore the elephant in the room as mush as you want but I think his question needs to be considered. You don't seriously think every question is answered in the small amount of scripture that we have access to as canonised in the bible do you ? Jesus said so much more and did so many more things than are recorded in the version as compiled by a group of men. I for one would have been much happier seeing the entire works of that heretic Paul removed from the bible and just had more of what the Master actually said rather than some arrogant legalistic tentmaker with a personal agenda worte to concoct his own version of Christianity, second of all John of course we should be concerning ourselves with such questions. 

Washed, for you to see anything Paul has written as being arrogant or in opposition to Jesus, is to have little discernment of the BIble as a whole. Paul's writings are in perfect agreement, but Jesus' primary ministry, you must remember, was to Israel, to those under the law. His sacrifice made salvation available to all, but He, Himself, said He was sent to seek and to save that which was lost, which was first to Israel. So Jesus was made under the law, (in His flesh, I mean), and sent to those under the law, which is why He said that He wasn't there to destroy the law, and urged those in His ministry to keep the law. He came to fulfill the law, which He did by perfectly keeping the law, then fulilling it, nailing it to His cross.

 

Jesus Himself called Paul as an Apostle, and Paul's message was perfectly complimentary to the message of Peter and James and all others, including Jesus. Paul directed others to be of Jesus, not of Paul, and I daresay, you would not be able to really grasp the freedom you have in Christ without the words of Paul.

 

You state some things about scripture that I would be interested in knowing where you get your information. Yes, there are a lot of 'gnostic' books, but these have been proven to date from up to 200-300 years after the writing of the Bible. I believe that everything that the Lord declared to be written and given is what we have present in the scriptures we have, otherwise you are accusing God of not being able to keep His word available.  Pretty strong assertions from someone sitting 2,000 years after, with, I suspect, no hard proof. God has preserved His word for us, as He wants it for us.  

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