Jump to content
  • Welcome Guest

    For an ad free experience on Online Baptist, Please login or register for free

Separating from Ray Boltz


Recommended Posts

  • Members
I'm no fan of CCM by any stretch of the imagination but how does his revelation prove that CCM is bad? Using that logic' date=' all the predator pastors I've heard of in IFBX-dom could prove that traditional gospel music is bad...[/quote']

By brosmith's reasoning, each time an IFB Pastor falls to adultery or homosexuality or pedophilia would then make all Pastor's and IFB churches anathema as well. Amazing.....
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


I don't do CCM so this argument doesn't apply to me.

HOWEVER...the pastor we worked under for four years before moving here was a tremendous speaker. He put out the most amazing series/study on Revelation on tape that I have ever heard.

Since that time he has been involved in immorality, divorced his wife, and married some other woman. Does this mean his series on Revelation is no longer right to listen to? Obviously I personally may not want to listen to it, but for someone who wants to understand Revelation, I think its probably one of the best resources I've heard.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

Very good responses, guys. Just because the guy is bad doesn't mean that all of his music is, either. How exactly is listening or playing a song written by him fellowshiping with him? :frog It doesn't make sense.

And as far as it proving that CCM is bad, I better avoid Baptists, too, cause they've had a few bad apples themselves. :wink

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Very good responses, guys. Just because the guy is bad doesn't mean that all of his music is, either. How exactly is listening or playing a song written by him fellowshiping with him? :frog It doesn't make sense.

And as far as it proving that CCM is bad, I better avoid Baptists, too, cause they've had a few bad apples themselves. :wink
Kevin, a few years ago, I probably would have agreed with you. My position was just to let a piece of music stand on its own merits, and to make a decision whether or not to use the music based on those merits. Lately, I have come to realize that such a position is idealistic, but not realistic or practical. The problem is that music does not exist in a vacuum. Some music has such a strong association with the writer/performer that separating the two is impossible, especially for those who are very familiar with the writer/composer and his work. There are testimony issues, in addition to the obvious problem of allowing someone who thumbs his nose at God to lead me in worship.

I wouldn't call listening to music "fellowshiping with the performer," except in the sense that two hearts are being lifted together in worship of God. I personally could not listen to sacred music performed by someone I did not feel unified with spiritually. It would be incongruous to be led in worship by someone who has displayed irreverence and sinfulness in a way that Boltz has.

I think the music issue may differ than the "Revelation series" issue that Kita brought up, although I think I'd have a hard time listening to that as well, since hearing the man's voice would literally make me feel nauseous and burdened. Perhaps I feel things too deeply. But I think music is different, because it is an act of worship and admonition and exhortation rolled into one. When I listen to music, I am uniting my heart with the heart of the performer in a way that does not occur if I'm just listening to lectures.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
I don't think it proves CCM is bad' date=' I think CCM does a good job of that itself. :wink :frog :lol:[/quote']

So true. :thumb

But why buy music from a singer who supports any church that calls itself a church even thought its a false teaching church, that is what nearly all the southern gospel singers do because their only interest is selling their songs. Most of these people don't care if the church teachers salvation is earned or if its by grace thru faith.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
My music falls into the BJU/Wilds/traditional sacred genre. If I told you to be informed about Dan Daniels from Indiana' date=' would you know who I was talking about? Not if you didn't follow that genre of music you wouldn't.[/quote']

I never heard of Dan Daniels, but if I am going to listen to his music then I want to know something about him.

CCM is deceptive and dangerous. A few years ago Temple Baptist Church in Powell, TN (Pastor Clarence Sexton) had available on their website mp3 files of their special music. These were freely available for anyone to download. Since our son at the time was a student at Crown College, we figured that we could trust their music. After closer examination, I found 6 songs that were written by CCM singers.

My point: It is unwise to put absolute faith in anyone's music. This has nothing to do with "genre" but has everything to do with discernment.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


But were the SONGS bad? There are CCM singers who, 25 years ago or so, put out a few good songs. I'm not opposed to using some old favorites or some good music. I don't listen to them, but I don't see how a good song can be suddenly bad once you look at who wrote it.

There's a fellow like that in our church...there is a certain songwriter he disagrees with (who actually wrote a few hymns) and he refuses to sing those hymns if they come up. Songs in the hymnal! I've never understood it.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
Okay, I just found Ray Boltz on YouTube (I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb). It is sad that someone that talented has fallen in a sinful life; no doubt.

I will say, I was impressed with the song itself. The words, the music and the imagery. Such a shame.

P.S. If you think that song is "CCM" then you must still be listening to chamber music.


Just because some of us don't think about the music in the same way that you do is no reason to try to put us down. BTW..I love chamber music! :)

The reason I don't listen to Ray Boltz is because when I discovered him years ago he was a long-haired hippy looking guy who was into the Contemporary movement. He may very well be a Christian who has fallen into deep sin (and if he is saved, the Lord will chastise him).

I have heard "I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb" sung by many church groups in a non-contemporary way....however that doesn't change the author who wrote it.

I understand that you and lots of other Christians may not think it's important who wrote the song as long as the lyrics are okay. There are just as many other Christians on the other side who do care. That's no reason to try to put down the other side.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members

As a side note, the way I stand is that the lyrics AND the music have to be ok before I'll sing a song....the only CCM artists that I'd use their music are probably the very old ones from years back.

I don't know the "Pledge Allegiance" song... but if its good and non-contemporary sounding and Biblical words, I don't see that this suddenly makes it bad. (Of course, if Ray had long hippie hair, he was always "bad" really, unBiblical at the least).

This is highly controversial though and I doubt many will agree on ANY facet of it. LOL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members
As a side note, the way I stand is that the lyrics AND the music have to be ok before I'll sing a song....the only CCM artists that I'd use their music are probably the very old ones from years back.

I don't know the "Pledge Allegiance" song... but if its good and non-contemporary sounding and Biblical words, I don't see that this suddenly makes it bad. (Of course, if Ray had long hippie hair, he was always "bad" really, unBiblical at the least).

This is highly controversial though and I doubt many will agree on ANY facet of it. LOL.


So true...I know we've had these kind of discussions before on this board. In knowing that we all disagree to some extent we can at least be happy that everyone has put some thought into it and isn't just accepting everything that comes down the pike without thought and prayer.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


Just because some of us don't think about the music in the same way that you do is no reason to try to put us down. BTW..I love chamber music! :)

The reason I don't listen to Ray Boltz is because when I discovered him years ago he was a long-haired hippy looking guy who was into the Contemporary movement. He may very well be a Christian who has fallen into deep sin (and if he is saved, the Lord will chastise him).

I have heard "I Pledge Allegiance to the Lamb" sung by many church groups in a non-contemporary way....however that doesn't change the author who wrote it.

I understand that you and lots of other Christians may not think it's important who wrote the song as long as the lyrics are okay. There are just as many other Christians on the other side who do care. That's no reason to try to put down the other side.


I'm quite content to agree to disagree! I love chamber music, classical, bluegrass, southern Gospel, hymns, easy listening, etc.......but I still don't see that song as being in the same league as today's "CCM."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Members


I'm quite content to agree to disagree! I love chamber music, classical, bluegrass, southern Gospel, hymns, easy listening, etc.......but I still don't see that song as being in the same league as today's "CCM."


Perhaps I'm just looking at it from the point of view from when I first discovered it. At that time the way Boltz put it out there it was rather contemporary. Compared to today's contemporary it probably isn't nearly as bad.

Anyways yeah..agree to disagree. :smile Agreeably! :P lol
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...