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In that case why use the term without qualification? It was you who said 'hey check out these tracts by a Calvinist'. If what you wanted to do was refer to beliefs that aren't distinctly Calvinist, such as dispensationalism, then that seems an odd way to do it. A bit like me saying 'Dave is a Calvinist' when what I want to convey is that Dave is a Trinitarian. And I still think that coming onto an explicitly KJV-only and non-Calvinist forum and saying 'I recommend X,Y,Z to you because it is not KJVO and is Calvinist' sounds bit too unwitting. ;)
Apologies. I try and stay united in the essentials of the faith and use tracts by both Calvinist and Arminian. Think of it this way. As I write letters to the false churches do you think they care about this in house debate? No they do not as they preach heresy. Sometimes a Calvinist ministry has a better tract for the false teacher, other times it's a non Cal ministry like Chic tracts that does the jOB. Churches like the gay homosexual churches, the New Age churches, and the Unitarian Universalist churches preach pure heresy. I have no beef with non Cal and KJVO just as long as they respect me and my views. Yes I can work with them as long as they respect me. The fight is not them but the false teachers. Granted I will see in general it's the non Cal types that are more evangelistic so if they can respect me we can work together. Edited by evangelist6589
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New guy enters a forum for fans of Ford motorcars: "Hey, I want to recommend an article to you. It's a really good article by a guy who hates Fords."

Forum regular: "But this forum is about enjoying Fords, so why would we want to read an article about hating them?"

New guy: "The article isn't about hating Fords, it's about liking McDonalds. The guy loves eating McDonalds and has written an article about it. He may happen to hate Fords but that doesn't mean he can't also be an enjoyer of McDonalds."

Forum regular: ...


No one said I hate non Cal and the KJV but you.
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We have actually had some pretty extensive discussions on the subjects-maybe seek them out in the archives.

The main issue is that there tends to be a lot of emotion in them with some, and the discussions inevitable lead to name-calling and generally un-Christian-like behavior. So we try to avoid it anymore. No offense to you.


I agree. I should never have mentioned it.
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Lol, if the analogy was to be taken that literally then I'd have to be saying you hated Ford motorcars, not Cal or KJV. OBviously I'm saying none of those things.


As I said I have no beef with non Cal nor KJVO just as long as they can respect me. All too often however this is not the case. I actually have 3 KJV Bibles and many verses memorized in it.
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We have actually had some pretty extensive discussions on the subjects-maybe seek them out in the archives.

 

The main issue is that there tends to be a lot of emotion in them with some, and the discussions inevitable lead to name-calling and generally un-Christian-like behavior. So we try to avoid it anymore. No offense to you.

Is avoiding sin the right response or should we confront the sin and deal with that?

 

Whatever the topic, is some folks getting emotional (allowing the flesh to reign) and name calling (there's the flesh again...not to mention giving room for the devil) a reason to limit or halt discussion? Or, should we perhaps view such as a serious heart matter that's worthy of dealing with, both as a group of brothers/sisters in Christ and individually?

 

There are a few who routinely make personal attacks in a variety of threads, and most often this is done when an actual biblical response would be potentially very helpful at that point, yet other than sometimes being called on a particular post, they proceed at will.

 

Please don't anyone misconstrue this as me advocating for another discussion or debate regarding Calvinism or anything else because that's not my point at all. My point is, just as some IFB churches emphasize outward appearance (which includes hiding certain sins), to avoid certain discussions here because we know some will respond sinfully, is doing much the same thing. We need to confront our sins, help one another in this (in love, one for another), cast off the old man, put on the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

It would be much better to totally detour a thread that devolves into fleshly posting for the sake of helping one another recognize our sin, repent, and take the necessary steps to subject our flesh to Christ. In this we could all benefit and grow in Christ.

 

Avoiding things so our sin remains hidden hampers our growth.

 

Again, to be very clear, I'm not at all advocating any particular topic to be brought up for discussion for the sake of confronting our flesh. I'm only saying that when our flesh does rise up, in whatever topic thread it may be, we should lovingly and helpfully tend to that sin prOBlem for the benefit of all.

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Or, should we perhaps view such as a serious heart matter that's worthy of dealing with, both as a group of brothers/sisters in Christ and individually?

 

I think the elephant in the room, John, is that folk don't think they are talking with brothers in Christ. Some have made it plain that they don't think others are saved and some have made it plain that their foremost desire is to see others booted off the forum. Can someone regard as a brother in Christ a person they don't believe is a Christian? Can someone regard as a brother in Christ someone whom they are calling to be excommunicated (for want of a better term)? Just off the top of my head, I recall such things being said or strongly implied in discussions on calvinism, eschatology, dispensations, drinking alcohol, worship music and women wearing pants.

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I think the elephant in the room, John, is that folk don't think they are talking with brothers in Christ. Some have made it plain that they don't think others are saved and some have made it plain that their foremost desire is to see others booted off the forum. Can someone regard as a brother in Christ a person they don't believe is a Christian? Can someone regard as a brother in Christ someone whom they are calling to be excommunicated (for want of a better term)? Just off the top of my head, I recall such things being said or strongly implied in discussions on calvinism, eschatology, dispensations, drinking alcohol, worship music and women wearing pants.

Indeed, that is a prOBlem with some. That would be another prOBlem we should deal with openly, biblicaly, and not emotionally (fleshly).

 

If one has a scriptural testimony of salvation in Christ then we should accept that since we don't live with or among them to be able to see the actual walk of their life. Scripture doesn't say if one is saved they will have perfect understanding of all of Scripture and/or they will agree with and abide by these 119 key points someone had determined are fundamental to proving one is saved.

 

Yet even if one believes a person to be unsaved, that's no excuse to allow sin to reign in responding to them.

 

We see in Scripture that Paul often spent a great amount of time reasoning with Jews and Gentiles. Look at how long he did this in some places! What great patience and love for others in service to Christ!

 

Salvation doesn't come with instant Christian maturity. How many of us today hold to the exact same views and beliefs we did on the day we were saved? Or even five or ten years ago; or longer for some of us? We start as baby Christians and the rest of our lives is spent in maturing (hopefully we are all pursuing growth in Christ!).

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Okay, apparently folks don't think they need to heed when a moderator says get back on topic.  This discussion has gone astray long enough.  Get back on topic or the thread will be locked.  Jordan started this thread to get feedback about his tract. Not for people to argue about everything under the sun.

 

:11backtotopic:

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I am not going to lie ,for a while I used Ray Comforts tract "Are you good enough to go to heaven" because it used the ten commandments, but Ray Comfort is not KJO, I think he uses NKJV or his own updated KJV, For me it was a trade off because he used the ten commandments in the tact, which by conviction I believe is the correct method for evangelism.

 

For me I'd rather use a NKJV tract that uses the Law, than a KJV tract that has a quick gloss over sin that lends itself more to easy believism, does not that mean I approve of other translations? No way! 

 

Which is why I made my own tract anyway :)

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Jordan, even Paul used different methods depending on whom he was dealing with.
To limit yourself to a single approach is to miss opportunities, although you may find yourself more comfortable with a particular style.
By all means use a "10 commandments " approach, and of course people have to understand sin, Saviour, sacrifice etc, but do not discount other approaches.
At least you are trying to get it done, so good on you for that. ;)

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I am not going to lie ,for a while I used Ray Comforts tract "Are you good enough to go to heaven" because it used the ten commandments, but Ray Comfort is not KJO, I think he uses NKJV or his own updated KJV, For me it was a trade off because he used the ten commandments in the tact, which by conviction I believe is the correct method for evangelism.

For me I'd rather use a NKJV tract that uses the Law, than a KJV tract that has a quick gloss over sin that lends itself more to easy believism, does not that mean I approve of other translations? No way!

Which is why I made my own tract anyway :)


Fellowship Tract League has a 10 Commandments tract and they use the KJV.
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Okay, apparently folks don't think they need to heed when a moderator says get back on topic.  This discussion has gone astray long enough.  Get back on topic or the thread will be locked.  Jordan started this thread to get feedback about his tract. Not for people to argue about everything under the sun.

 

:11backtotopic:

I did not see your post #45 until just now. I just wanted to let you know I hadn't ignored you, I simply hadn't "heard" you.

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I use fellowship. Amoung others. Its got KJV. Which I only use. True the law is taskmaster. However I don't use that. Haven't used it that much. When I did got not much of a response. I use salvation verses. I feel uncomfortable asking people about their sins. Jesus died for their sins. Thats more than enough.

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I use fellowship. Amoung others. Its got KJV. Which I only use. True the law is taskmaster. However I don't use that. Haven't used it that much. When I did got not much of a response. I use salvation verses. I feel uncomfortable asking people about their sins. Jesus died for their sins. Thats more than enough.

In some cases people already realize they are sinners and don't need to have that pointed out to them.

 

In some cases, we will encounter those who have hearts already prepared to hear the Gospel; or they've heard the Gospel, been watered and are ready for harvest.

 

There is no one "cookie cutter" method of helping to bring souls to Christ. Christ is the only Way, but as we see in the New Testament, there are various means of application.

 

I try to keep myself open to the Spirit's leading as I speak with different people so I will know how best to reach them.

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