Jump to content
  • Welcome to Online Baptist

    Free to join.

2bLikeJesus

Christmas Tree Or No?

Recommended Posts

Can you believe it will be OctOBer this week?!  With the "Christmas season" only 8 weeks away, I thought I would get opinions on this issue which I have found no two churches have the same opinion on.  At the base of the issue are these verses in the Bible.  

 

Jeremiah 10:2-5 (KJV)
2  Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3  For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4  They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5  They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good. 

 

Sure sounds like a Christmas tree to me.  Though, at least in American culture, no one puts up a Christmas tree as an idol to bow down and worship, and therefore I don't think having one in your home would hurt your testimony with your neighbors.  In fact it might hurt or confuse your neighbors if a Christian doesn't appear to them to be celebrating Christmas.  What are your thoughts on this?  

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Those verses are speaking of idols made by men which men then have to adorn to try and make them look like something but even when they have decorated their idol to look like a "proper" false god and have it standing upright, it can still do nothing.

 

As to Christmas trees, in America today they are a generic holiday decoration. Beyond being a traditional holiday decoration, most don't think anything about them at all.

 

There are pagan traditions and Christian traditions attached to the trees and much debate upon which is most accurate, which came first, what it really means and all that. Outside of a handful who really get into searching out such things, a Christmas tree to the vast majority of folks is nothing more than a fun decoration and something to pile presents around, the more the merrier.

 

As far as I can tell, folks are at liberty to have one or not depending upon their conscious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh Christmas tree, O Christmas tree
Your branches green delight me...

Could be seen as idol worship, imo.

ftr, i don't put them up.

People sing and say the same thing about trees in a forest, mountain ranges and beautiful sunsets. There is much to delight in but outside those who worship nature, most people delight in such in a healthy manner, not worshipful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We neither hug nor worship our tree at Christmas time.  But we do enjoy decorating the house with it.  We have a 4-foot fiber optic tree.  It's the biggest we can fit in our house.  :nuts:

 

In the past, we attended a church where the pastor taught against trees and so we did not have one (being on staff, we felt it was respectful of his teachings not to).  However, leaving aside a lot of things I could say about different things he taught bogusly about that time of year, I found out something that kinda made me angry...

 

As I was OBeying instructions to teach my class that trees are wrong to have (something I emphatically disagree that teachers should be doing - it's not the business of teachers or school personnel whether families have trees or not), the pastor's oldest grandson (who was in first grade at the time) spoke up and said that his aunt (the youngest of the pastor's kids who was still at home) had a tree in her bedroom...and I found out he was telling the truth.  Needless to say, we weren't happy about that.

 

If someone strongly believes that they shouldn't have a tree, then they shouldn't have one. But it's wrong to present it as absolutely totally unscriptural.  Because it isn't.

 

This is, as John said, totally a liberty of conscious area.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I have one in my home every year, with loads of presents under it for my kids and grandkids.  Of course since I live in Douglas County , OR where "Douglas Firs" (the most common and most fragrant Christmas tree) gets it's name, we go out and chop our own tree down out of the vast "Christmas tree" forests around here.  That trip into the mountains with ax in hand, is one of the biggest highlights of the season, especially for the grandsons.  Give any boy between the ages of 6 and 16 an ax and tell him to chop down a tree...well you might as well give a girl the keys to the chocolate factory and tell her to have all she wants.   :nuts:

Edited by 2bLikeJesus

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have never agreed that those verses in Jeremiah were about Christmas trees, but as John said, about taking wood and carving it into an idol. I generally don't have a tree because these days its such a large part of the false Christmas traditions-really can't separate them. And I reject all about 'Christmas" such as it is celebrated. If I was to celebrate the birth of Christ, it would be because the Bible gave a clear madate to do so, or at least, as in His death, a date to OBserve it, rather than a date borrowed from various pagan sources. Honestly, I have alwaye believed its possible that, just as Jesus died as the Passover Lamb of God, so He would have been born at the season those lambs were born, in the fall, between September-OctOBer, which would have made the yearling lambs of a good size for eating come Passover. The shepherds being with their flocks in the field at night was usually because they were lambing and kidding, else they would have been locked in the fold.

 

I believe the origins of the tree in the house came from Egypt, where they brought small palm trees and palm fronds into the house during the winter to keep a semblance of life and green during the long cold season of winter. Don't know if they decorated them at all, but they used them AS decoration.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My wife and I decided a coupla years after getting married to not have anything 'christmas' in our home, and haven't since then, and will never, just because it is 'Roman' based traditions, and 'protestant' based traditions.

As for the 'christmas tree', we haven't had one for about 24 years.

And it hasn't hurt us or our children one bit. 

Now that is our conviction based upon what we feel we have learned through study of traditions of Baptists, and the scriptures.

There is a lot of whooplah about it, but I would like to say one thing, read Jeremiah 2, but read verse 2 thoroughly.

 

We aren't to 'learn the way of the heathen', and since IMO the catholic church is heathenism itself, and they started the Mass, I wouldn't do anything 'christmas' just based on that alone.

 

Years ago I read in 'The Baptist Challenge' out of Indianapolis, IN, that Baptists never celebrated Christmas, or had trees, till 1900, when the vast majority of 'churches' [all other denominations] brought pressure upon them in society as being unchristian for not.

Edited by Genevanpreacher

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I believe the origins of the tree in the house came from Egypt, where they brought small palm trees and palm fronds into the house during the winter to keep a semblance of life and green during the long cold season of winter. Don't know if they decorated them at all, but they used them AS decoration.

 

5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After reading Jeremiah 10:2-5, Alexander Hyslip's "Two Babylons" and Woodrow's "Babylon, Mystery Religion" I pretty well walked away from Christmas, and especially the tree. I have christian family who will have a tree, as do friends of mine who are good Godly men. I go all Romans 14 on the deal and I don't fault them on it, i don't get offended or bent about it, I just don't have one myself.

 

I realize that the little girl who shows up at our door on Halloween dressed like a fairy princess looking for candy is just innocently participating in what is now a traditional family holiday, and she is sure not worshiping Satan. I still won't let my children participate because of it's origins. And I feel the same way about Christmas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of good comments here.

 

As a pastor, I know the difficulty in the line we walk when we teach about such things. On the one hand, we need to teach the truth, and the hard facts about the origins of Christmas, yet on the other hand, we need to realize that some will still hold to some of the traditions, and we don't beat them up for it, or make them feel unwelcome. Not everyone is in the same place, in growth and maturity and discernment.

 

During the Resurrection time, I teach against Easter, and often do a version of Christ in the Passover, showing where Christ is seen clearly in the various Passover traditions, and as well, teaching where we got the Lord's Supper, as many, amazingly, don't realize it came from the Passover, from the Cup of Redemption, (His blood), and the afikomen, (His body), both aspects of the meal.  I had a man in my church for many years-in fact, he was there before I was. He sat in this teaching many times, and sometimes, skiped out to go to take his kids to easter egg hunts at other churches.  Well, he and his wife have moved a few years ago and this last year, they came out to visit and were at service when I did this Christ in the Passover, and he was amazed, and declared that he had never heard such things and he and his wife just gushed over how they loved it and how it opened their eyes up more than before. And yet, he had heard it before, but wasn't willing or ready, apparently, to receive it until then.

 

So with any of the traditional holidays-they tend to hold so many dear and precious family memories, it can be very difficult to hear the truth and give them up. So we need to be patient, give the truth, love them, and keep giving the truth, until they decide to take heed unto the doctrine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I go to a church that is wide open Christmas, puts up a fake tree, puts on a big play. We have a huge crowd that night, people we never see again until next year. If we had preaching instead of playing they wouldn't come to church. 

 

Its a stumbling block to me. I'm trying my to accept christians are taking a worldly holiday and making it Holy. Put Christ back in christmas. 1st the Catholics tried, now us regular Christians are trying. Good, good people in my church and other churches are trying to make leaven holy. 

 

I find myself thanking God I'm not in a place of authority so I'm not responsible. I need to pray more for you men who are in leadership. I can see the pickle you men are in. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Our church does decorate - and, honestly, it's beautiful, to me.  On the Sunday before Christmas Day, the kids in grades 3-6 present a 10 minute program that is saturated with the birth of Christ and why He came.  But after, we always have a message. Our church runs a lot of buses, and we do have a lot of family members who come to see their kids in the presentation.  And there've been several saved over the years.  Just as with a lot of things, we use the time of year as a tool to reach others for Christ.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why should we celebrate a pagan holiday?  It was invented by and early pope, and the Catholic church is a pagan religion.  When I read minutes of local Baptist Churches for 1850 to 1870, they never mention the word. They only mention Dec 25th.  One even had a members meeting on Dec 25.  Our church unfortunately celebrates the festival, but we have managed to do away with the tree.

 

Of course, even the word is blasphemous.  A mass or Christ.  

And you say you didn't come from Rome?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The more I reflect on the Jeremiah 10 passage, the more I have to wonder if it is speaking of carved idols at all.

For this reason: it is not in them to do harm or good. (paraphrased )

according to Ezekiel 20, idols pollute people. I would say thay is harm.

Seems to me the idol is put on the tree. Jeremiah reveals that the image is molten, in other words , made from melted silver or gold. They deck it with silver and gold.

There is no harm or good in the tree itself. But they put their molten images in its branches.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's speaking to the fact that one can pray all day to an idol and that idol can't grant you a blessing or shoot a bolt of lightening at your enemies. This goes along with what's mentioned elsewhere about taking a tree, cutting some for firewood, some for another use, and then using some to make a "god". It's all the same wood and nothing but wood! Yet men fashion it into an image, decorate it, and fasten it to something so it won't fall over, and the people bow before that block of wood and worship.

 

No doubt, a lot of harm is being done, but it's not being done by the idol. The idol, their "god", is an inanimate OBject which can do nothing at all on its own.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why should we celebrate a pagan holiday?  It was invented by and early pope, and the Catholic church is a pagan religion.  When I read minutes of local Baptist Churches for 1850 to 1870, they never mention the word. They only mention Dec 25th.  One even had a members meeting on Dec 25.  Our church unfortunately celebrates the festival, but we have managed to do away with the tree.

 

Of course, even the word is blasphemous.  A mass or Christ.  

And you say you didn't come from Rome?

 

Actually, Christmas was not invented by the RCC - they simply integrated their version of christianity into earlier pagan holidays. Either way, the modern OBservance of Christmas by... anyone... does not mean they have a history in the RCC. Try telling that to an atheist! 

 

That being said, the above comment is inflammatory and off topic. Why don't we go back there? :wink

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My church decorates for Christmas with greenery and decorations, but does not put up a tree. I'm glad of that - don't particularly care for trees in churches now that I know a bit more about their history. I still put one up myself, though. :wink  Most of the families in our church do celebrate Christmas; we might have one or two that don't and a couple others that will celebrate but not put up a tree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually, Christmas was not invented by the RCC - they simply integrated their version of christianity into earlier pagan holidays. Either way, the modern OBservance of Christmas by... anyone... does not mean they have a history in the RCC. Try telling that to an atheist! 

 

That being said, the above comment is inflammatory and off topic. Why don't we go back there? :wink

Yes, Salyan, I shouldn't have said that, I apologize. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Who's Online   1 Member, 0 Anonymous, 28 Guests (See full list)

Article Categories

About Us

Since 2001, Online Baptist has been an Independent Baptist website, and we exclusively use the King James Version of the Bible. We pride ourselves on a community that uplifts the Lord.

Contact Us

You can contact us using the following link. Contact Us or for questions regarding this website please contact @pastormatt or email James Foley at jfoley@sisqtel.net

Android App

Online Baptist has a custom App for all android users. You can download it from the Google Play store or click the following icon.

×
×
  • Create New...