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Christmas Tree Or No?


2bLikeJesus

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A lot of good comments here.

 

As a pastor, I know the difficulty in the line we walk when we teach about such things. On the one hand, we need to teach the truth, and the hard facts about the origins of Christmas, yet on the other hand, we need to realize that some will still hold to some of the traditions, and we don't beat them up for it, or make them feel unwelcome. Not everyone is in the same place, in growth and maturity and discernment.

 

During the Resurrection time, I teach against Easter, and often do a version of Christ in the Passover, showing where Christ is seen clearly in the various Passover traditions, and as well, teaching where we got the Lord's Supper, as many, amazingly, don't realize it came from the Passover, from the Cup of Redemption, (His blood), and the afikomen, (His body), both aspects of the meal.  I had a man in my church for many years-in fact, he was there before I was. He sat in this teaching many times, and sometimes, skiped out to go to take his kids to easter egg hunts at other churches.  Well, he and his wife have moved a few years ago and this last year, they came out to visit and were at service when I did this Christ in the Passover, and he was amazed, and declared that he had never heard such things and he and his wife just gushed over how they loved it and how it opened their eyes up more than before. And yet, he had heard it before, but wasn't willing or ready, apparently, to receive it until then.

 

So with any of the traditional holidays-they tend to hold so many dear and precious family memories, it can be very difficult to hear the truth and give them up. So we need to be patient, give the truth, love them, and keep giving the truth, until they decide to take heed unto the doctrine.

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I go to a church that is wide open Christmas, puts up a fake tree, puts on a big play. We have a huge crowd that night, people we never see again until next year. If we had preaching instead of playing they wouldn't come to church. 

 

Its a stumbling block to me. I'm trying my to accept christians are taking a worldly holiday and making it Holy. Put Christ back in christmas. 1st the Catholics tried, now us regular Christians are trying. Good, good people in my church and other churches are trying to make leaven holy. 

 

I find myself thanking God I'm not in a place of authority so I'm not responsible. I need to pray more for you men who are in leadership. I can see the pickle you men are in. 

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Our church does decorate - and, honestly, it's beautiful, to me.  On the Sunday before Christmas Day, the kids in grades 3-6 present a 10 minute program that is saturated with the birth of Christ and why He came.  But after, we always have a message. Our church runs a lot of buses, and we do have a lot of family members who come to see their kids in the presentation.  And there've been several saved over the years.  Just as with a lot of things, we use the time of year as a tool to reach others for Christ.  

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Why should we celebrate a pagan holiday?  It was invented by and early pope, and the Catholic church is a pagan religion.  When I read minutes of local Baptist Churches for 1850 to 1870, they never mention the word. They only mention Dec 25th.  One even had a members meeting on Dec 25.  Our church unfortunately celebrates the festival, but we have managed to do away with the tree.

 

Of course, even the word is blasphemous.  A mass or Christ.  

And you say you didn't come from Rome?

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The more I reflect on the Jeremiah 10 passage, the more I have to wonder if it is speaking of carved idols at all.

For this reason: it is not in them to do harm or good. (paraphrased )

according to Ezekiel 20, idols pollute people. I would say thay is harm.

Seems to me the idol is put on the tree. Jeremiah reveals that the image is molten, in other words , made from melted silver or gold. They deck it with silver and gold.

There is no harm or good in the tree itself. But they put their molten images in its branches.

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It's speaking to the fact that one can pray all day to an idol and that idol can't grant you a blessing or shoot a bolt of lightening at your enemies. This goes along with what's mentioned elsewhere about taking a tree, cutting some for firewood, some for another use, and then using some to make a "god". It's all the same wood and nothing but wood! Yet men fashion it into an image, decorate it, and fasten it to something so it won't fall over, and the people bow before that block of wood and worship.

 

No doubt, a lot of harm is being done, but it's not being done by the idol. The idol, their "god", is an inanimate OBject which can do nothing at all on its own.

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Why should we celebrate a pagan holiday?  It was invented by and early pope, and the Catholic church is a pagan religion.  When I read minutes of local Baptist Churches for 1850 to 1870, they never mention the word. They only mention Dec 25th.  One even had a members meeting on Dec 25.  Our church unfortunately celebrates the festival, but we have managed to do away with the tree.

 

Of course, even the word is blasphemous.  A mass or Christ.  

And you say you didn't come from Rome?

 

Actually, Christmas was not invented by the RCC - they simply integrated their version of christianity into earlier pagan holidays. Either way, the modern OBservance of Christmas by... anyone... does not mean they have a history in the RCC. Try telling that to an atheist! 

 

That being said, the above comment is inflammatory and off topic. Why don't we go back there? :wink

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My church decorates for Christmas with greenery and decorations, but does not put up a tree. I'm glad of that - don't particularly care for trees in churches now that I know a bit more about their history. I still put one up myself, though. :wink  Most of the families in our church do celebrate Christmas; we might have one or two that don't and a couple others that will celebrate but not put up a tree.

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Actually, Christmas was not invented by the RCC - they simply integrated their version of christianity into earlier pagan holidays. Either way, the modern OBservance of Christmas by... anyone... does not mean they have a history in the RCC. Try telling that to an atheist! 

 

That being said, the above comment is inflammatory and off topic. Why don't we go back there? :wink

Yes, Salyan, I shouldn't have said that, I apologize. 

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My church decorates for Christmas with greenery and decorations, but does not put up a tree. I'm glad of that - don't particularly care for trees in churches now that I know a bit more about their history. I still put one up myself, though. :wink  Most of the families in our church do celebrate Christmas; we might have one or two that don't and a couple others that will celebrate but not put up a tree.

 

You make me curious with the statement saying you are glad the church doesn't put one up because of what you know, yet you still put one up yourself?

I am not judging you at all, I condemn no one in what they do with christmas, I am just wondering, why is it 'bad' (my word) for the church, yet not bad (my word) for you?

All things being equal, you being one that makes up the church you attend, and the church you attend. Where is the dividing line? And should there be a dividing line?

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I guess... The church is supposed to be about God. Trees - if pagan and therefore to be avoided - are putting a pagan thing in a central location in God's house - and if fine - are still a distraction from the 'real' meaning of Christmas. Guess that partial shunning of trees is the result of me being unsure whether or not I should avoid Christmas trees altogether. :-P
Also, not having a tree in church helps to avoid offending any that are against them. And that's always a good thing - the whole not causing a brother to stumble bit.
And I guess my house is not the same as the house of God. Kinda like I'll play certain classical music or soundtracks or watch old movies in my house but would not consider them appropriate for use in the church.

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Salyan,

 

I am curious to know what you meant by, "distracted from the real meaning of Christmas". What do you consider the real meaning of Christmas?

Here's the thing -- if a Christian says the "real meaning" of "Christmas" is Jesus THEN it AIN'T about trees, holly, mistletoe, colored lights, garland, tinsel, egg nog, and a song written about the 2nd coming (Joy to the World).

 

If a Christian seeks to "celebrate" the Lord's birth on 25 Dec, dispense with the worldly trappings (akin to using colored eggs and bunnies at Easter, light and laser show during a song service or psychology mixed with Bible in Christian counseling).

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Here's the thing -- if a Christian says the "real meaning" of "Christmas" is Jesus THEN it AIN'T about trees, holly, mistletoe, colored lights, garland, tinsel, egg nog, and a song written about the 2nd coming (Joy to the World).

 

Very true OFP.  But that doesn't change the fact that it ain't about Jesus either. You know, sorta like calling a duck by another name, but.....  "A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump" may just come into play here.

 

Has God ever told His people that they can entertain a little heresy? Just because someone says Christmas is about Christ doesn't make it so.

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