Opportunity Or Not

[John81]

Your last portion there is especially interesting to consider. If there is a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture, is that, or is that not, the same as the return of Christ which you refer to? If the same, that would seem to indicate that at least those who thought they were ready for His return, but were not, can never be saved after His return.

 

If we look at the other thing you mention, which if I understand you is that you believe there will be no rapture so whatever comes with regards to tribulation, Christians will be here for that (as well as non-Christians) so in such a case it would still be possible for the lost to be saved because Christ hasn't yet returned.

 

If the first is true, then that would seem to argue most for a need to get saved today since we don't know when He might return and it be too late, at least for those who have heard the Gospel.

 

If the second, some could possibly argue (as those who believe anyone can be saved after rapture) that if/when they see things going bad (tribulation, mark of the beast, that sort of thing) they will then get right with God. Indeed, not a good argument even if that version were correct because still, none of us know how long we have.

[Genevanpreacher]

Your last portion there is especially interesting to consider. If there is a pre-trib or mid-trib rapture, is that, or is that not, the same as the return of Christ which you refer to? [Yes] If the same, that would seem to indicate that at least those who thought they were ready for His return, but were not, can never be saved after His return. 

 

If we look at the other thing you mention, which if I understand you is that you believe there will be no rapture [No] so whatever comes with regards to tribulation, Christians will be here for that (as well as non-Christians) so in such a case it would still be possible for the lost to be saved because Christ hasn't yet returned. [ IMO the rapture does occur, as per Matthew 25:1-13.]

 

If the first is true, then that would seem to argue most for a need to get saved today since we don't know when He might return and it be too late, at least for those who have heard the Gospel.

 

If the second, some could possibly argue (as those who believe anyone can be saved after rapture) that if/when they see things going bad (tribulation, mark of the beast, that sort of thing) they will then get right with God. Indeed, not a good argument even if that version were correct because still, none of us know how long we have. [Agree. But will the lost see these things the way we will? He comes as a thief in the night to them, but not us. We wouldn't suffer our house to be broken through.]

Wait a minute before you read, more editing...

There, tried to make sense of what I was saying.

[John81]

How do we deal with those who see these movies, such as Left Behind, and walk away with the belief they can continue to live as they want, and then if they ever see what they saw in the movie (millions disappearing, mass chaos, etc.) they will know it's time to call out to Jesus and they will be okay?

[Covenanter]

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10

[HappyChristian]

John, I knew such a person. Some friends had invited him and his (saved) wife over to watch the movie in the hopes that it would make him stop and think. He was already under conviction as he had been witnessed to multiple times and had heard the preaching at church a few times.

 

The (first Left Behind) movie, however, backfired.   He made the statement upon seeing the movie that he didn't need to get saved now, he would have the opportunity to do so during the Tribulation.

 

Well, my friends were kind of taken aback because that is not what they had expected, of course. But they did answer well...

 

They assured him that the Bible teaches us that we each have an appointed time to die and that our lives are as a vapor.  So none of us are assured of a tomorrow, let alone survival into the Tribulation period.  They had a good, biblical discussion about salvation.

 

Well, he began coming to church on a regular basis. In fact, he came for a couple of years. But he never got saved.  Was it because of that movie?  I don't think so, but I don't think it helped him any.

 

Personally, I think movies like this can be interesting. But I don't think they are good to use for the lost.  JMO.

[John81]

I agree such movies can be interesting for the saved to consider, especially if they do so in light of Scripture. Like you, I don't think they are best for the lost. Unfortunately, what often passes for witnessing these days is inviting lost friends to watch a Christian movie like this.

 

Your friends conversation was good. That's typically the approach I take. It's amazing that not many people seem to really get it or they simply don't care they will die one day and it could be today. Most have an extreme false confidence they don't have to worry about death until they are really old and can see death when they look out their doors peephole.

[John81]

2 Thessalonians 1:4-10

Good verses but they still leave us with the question of timing. Do these verses leave room for one to get saved later or not?

 

Much of the prOBlem comes down to the lost wanting to (they think) have all the fun they can now, and put off things like death, where they will spend eternity and God until much later in their life.

 

For many, perhaps most, so long as they think they can wait until they are almost dead or wait until they see what they believe is the end of the world to get right with God, they are going to reject the call to salvation with the false hope there will be plenty of time to deal with that years or decades later.

[John81]

Too many in America have a warped view of "religion". It's not seen as being so important so as to dominate ones life. It's often viewed as a private matter, even to the point where people believe it shouldn't be discussed or lived too much in public.

 

These help to make matters that much more difficult in trying to talk with people, and more-so when they've had their minds further misdirected by poor preaching, faulty "christian" movies, and the examples of lackadaisical professing Christians.

[Genevanpreacher]

I think you hit the nail on the head, John.

Prayer changes things, I know, but it seems we need a real miracle

to out do what the world has done over the last century to the

'truth' of God's word.

 

Satan will not prevail, but he has perverted the view, of what the church

that Christ established, has believed, and believes still today.

He and his minions are professionals.

[MountainChristian]

Romans 11:29 

The Holy Ghost is a gift from Jesus in the book of Acts, so wouldn't that gift be here on earth for the mostly Jews and a few gentiles when they get saved? I've always thought the Jews who get born again if they refuse the mark 666 and are killed enter Heaven the same as anyone alive today. The Jews who are lost must refuse the mark 666 and stay alive until Jesus returns to be saved. Then they get saved like doubting Thomas. 

 

I can see how my logic would blow up in my face like the people who invited that man to watch the movie. 

[Covenanter]

Good verses but they still leave us with the question of timing. Do these verses leave room for one to get saved later or not?
 
Much of the prOBlem comes down to the lost wanting to (they think) have all the fun they can now, and put off things like death, where they will spend eternity and God until much later in their life.
 
For many, perhaps most, so long as they think they can wait until they are almost dead or wait until they see what they believe is the end of the world to get right with God, they are going to reject the call to salvation with the false hope there will be plenty of time to deal with that years or decades later.

None of the second coming passages allow time for repentance. Except Mark 12:9 but that refers to the AD70 destruction, when Jesus' coming was veiled with clouds.

The popular religious fiction has had no more Gospel impact than disaster movies.

Why do they think life is fun without Christ ? Whatever happened to the promised more abundant life of the Good Shepherd? John 10:7-11

[John81]

None of the second coming passages allow time for repentance. Except Mark 12:9 but that refers to the AD70 destruction, when Jesus' coming was veiled with clouds.

The popular religious fiction has had no more Gospel impact than disaster movies.

Why do they think life is fun without Christ ? Whatever happened to the promised more abundant life of the Good Shepherd? John 10:7-11

This is an argument I've heard pastors have over the years.

 

A. There are many verses which speak of the Lord returning at a time no one expects. In these many are caught unprepared and will not be with Him. Just what do these verses speak to?

 

B. If there is a pre or mid trib rapture, can or can't certain folks be saved afterward?

 

C. If there is no pre or mid trib rapture, doesn't that mean people should be all the more urgent in getting saved and making their calling and election sure?

 

D. If we believe there will be a pre or mid trib rapture and those who heard the Gospel but rejected it will automatically be unable to ever be saved after the rapture, are we perhaps helping to condemn millions of souls to hell knowing that if we share the Gospel with them most will reject it and if the rapture occurs soon they will be doomed?

 

E. If when Christ returns it's at the end for this world, doesn't that add to the reasons why today is the day of salvation (since we don't know when He will return) and present another clear reason why folks need to get saved now rather than risking later?

 

There are more points to this, and these could be expanded, but most have prOBably heard them (at least some of them) before.

 

One of the prOBlems with much of modern preaching and evangelism, with regards to why people are more interested in fun now than eternal abundant life, has to do with them telling people they can be Christians and live like the world. So many today preach an easy christianity where God wants them to be happy now, to have the good life now, and then God will also give them great things in heaven after they are finished living it up here on earth.

 

That message easily fits into the worlds message of postponing adulthood, responsibility and maturity as long as possible for the sake of entertainment, pleasing oneself with the things of the world, and the constant seeking of perpetual happiness.

 

These messages combine to give people the false idea that what really matters in life is entertainment, happiness and goodies here and now. No need to worry about the future because they government will take care of you when you get old and God's a real softy, all about love and non-judgmental so as long as you're not an evil dictator or serial killer you can be sure of heaven as your final home.

[Genevanpreacher]

Curiouser and curiouser...

[woolysheep]

Curiouser and curiouser...

 

I agree.

 

This is an interesting discussion.

[EKSmith]

brother John I 'm not trying to change the topic but when speaking of movies and there influence on the Mind this came to thought , I was listening to a radio talk show a few years ago and the subject was about science fiction movies one thing that was very interesting was that all the calls coming into the show was from people (adults) whom believed in this fiction many whom believed that Jesus would come back in a space ship along with the other Gods in the universe to save mankind from destroying themselves. Wo!

I recently watched a clip of Clint Eastwood taking about preserving the old movie films before they are all lost in this clip he made a statement that'' Movies are apart of our lives and the development of one s thoughts and imagination '' and these films need to be preserved to keep up the spirit and love we have for them. Wo!

 

I was still in the youth ministry when the  first left behind movie came out , a brother from the church and I went to see the movie after setting through it twice taking note of every word and action and then afterwards seeing the awl in which many where caught up in after seeing the movie, I refused to entertain the minds of the youth to such false teachings that perverted the Word of God. as a youth pastor I was NOT to entertain the hearts and minds of the youth but to teach discipleship to the youth building them up in the word of God to go out unto the lost of this world this I believed in doing so until the day I retired.

Yet I was shocked when the pastor made the announcement one Sunday morning encouraging the Adults to see the movie left behind, my thoughts was how could one encourage the hearts and minds of the adults to see a movie not inline with the word of God even though they haven't even seen the movie and are going along with what they have read or heard about the movie  Wo! 

of course they were all adults and their minds could not be subjected to such imaginations or perversions  it's just entertainment. ''Very Not True ''

 

God bless Brother