Way Of Life - Millennial Glory And The Final Rebellion

[No Nicolaitans]

But a millennial time-frame would certainly accommodate... 

 

Isaiah 65:20
There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

[Ukulelemike]

The Kingdom ruled by Messiah is taught in the OT, not clearly a millennial kingdom. The question is "to what extent is the present Gospel age the prophesied Kingdom, where such prophecies are fulfilled by the salvation of many from the nations before the perfect fulfilment in the resurrection? Does Scripture require a further intermediate kingdom age?"

 

We need to see how Jesus & his Apostles understood OT prophecy. After the Jewish leaders rejected the Apostolic Gospel, the true, heavenly Jerusalem was the focus.  (Gal. 4, Heb.12) And even before, Jesus explained to the Samaritan woman that true worship was wherever believers worshipped in Spirit & in truth. (John 4) We do see a spiritual understanding of OT prophecy.

 

True Israel comprises believing Jews, together with grafted in believing Gentiles, generally understood as the church - as the Pentecostal Jewish converts were called. (Acts 2) The church certainly never excludes true Jews. Nor are the people of God, my people, exclusively Jews. (Hosea 1, 2 Cor. 6, Rom. 9)

Except we are not grafted into Israel, but into God. Israel was God's chosen nation, God's people, but because of their rejection, they were brances cut out of the root, God. Gentiles becamse believers and were grafted into that root, as new people of God, and some of the originals remained, because they believed and were born again. Israel is not the root, they were just branches.

[Covenanter]

God made a glorious "kingdom" promise to Israel:

Ex. 19:5-6

 

Peter claims that very same promise fulfilled for the churches he was addressing (miixed Jew & Gentile)

1 Peter 2:9-10

Compare the OBedience of Ex. 19 with 1 Peter 1:2

 

John claims the same fulfilment :

Rev. 1:5-6

 

Jesus words to the Jewish leaders are relevant:

Mat. 21:43

[beameup]

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:  Rom 15:8

 

The Kingdom of Heaven was at hand and ready to be established on the earth - but was rejected.

The Body of Christ (ie: the "new man", the Church - composed of Jew & Gentile) wasn't even revealed until

Acts 9 when Jesus himself revealed this "mystery" (which had been hidden) directly to the Apostle Paul.

[Ukulelemike]

Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:  Rom 15:8

 

The Kingdom of Heaven was at hand and ready to be established on the earth - but was rejected.

The Body of Christ (ie: the "new man", the Church - composed of Jew & Gentile) wasn't even revealed until

Acts 9 when Jesus himself revealed this "mystery" (which had been hidden) directly to the Apostle Paul.

Then why did Jesus tell the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature? He wasn't just speaking of Jews, but every creature-yes, starting in Jerusalem, but then Judea, Samaria and the uttermost parts of the earth. Do you suppose He wanted them to only seek out Jews in those places? What did Peter preach to Cornelius, particularly when Peter had had no discourse with Paul to hear the gospel supposedly hidden until then? Indeed, Jesus made clear to Peter that there was NO difference bwteeen Jew and Gentile, but, in his own words, "God is no respecter of persons, but in every nation he that feareth Him and worketh righteousness is accepted of Him."

 

Later, in Acts 15, Peter says that the Gentiles were saved the same way as they, (the Jewish believers) were saved. "And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith...But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, we shall be saved, even as they." (Acts 15:9, 11).

 

In Acts 2, this is the beginning of the expansion of the church in Jerusalem-there was already a church in place, because those who were saved on Pentecost were 'added unto them". The church.

[beameup]

Then why did Jesus tell the apostles to preach the gospel to every creature?

It's prophetic.  During the Tribulation (dispensation), the Gospel of the Kingdom will once again be preached... by believing Jews (Israeli's).  There will be Jews that are saved after the Rapture, and they will study the New Testament.

 

Right now, we are in the dispensation of grace, where the Gospel of Grace (through Faith, without Works) is being preached; and souls added to the Body of Christ.

 

Catholics, of course will tell you that there are no "dispensations", that everyone has always been saved the "same way", and that there is no future for Israel because the Church is "spiritual Israel",and that there is no "Tribulation" or "Rapture", etc. etc. 

There may even be some Catholics on this board who are "posing" as IFB. and posting strange emoticons...

[John81]

 

[DaveW]

 

 

 

That is the strangest interpretation of the Great Commission that I have ever seen.......

 

And calling people catholics is no valid argument.

 

The plain fact is that the Gospel preached by John was the same as the Gospel preached by Peter, which was the same Gospel preached by Paul, which was the same Gospel preached by Jesus. 

 

NN in particular has done a wonderful jOB of presenting this by using SCRIPTURE which you basically ignore, re-interpret, and then non-answer by making catholic accusations which have absolutely no bearing on the issue.

 

Just because the Catholics have always preached a wrong Gospel is no argument against an everlasting Gospel.

[MountainChristian]

The article shows the way human logic can go way beyond Scripture. He ignores many OBvious questions:
When does/did the millennium begin?
How did Jesus and his Apostles handle OT prophecy?
Who comprise Abraham's seed? Aka "Israel"?
What do Jesus and his Apostles teach about the future of Israel as a nation, as distinct from Israel as the believing people of God?
Is Psalm 2 for future fulfilment? See Rom. 1 & Hebrews 1.
When is the resurrection? Bear in mind that the LAST enemy is death.
Why is a yet future millennium NOT taught in Gospels nor Epistles?

When Jesus returns, the dead will be raised to glory and the wicked condemned. John 5, 2 Thessalonians 1. The millennium is now. Look around. Can we see the final rebellion after 2 millennia of the Gospel? God is gracious, but his patience will end, with resurrection and judgment and the NH&NE, not with another millennium culminating in the same world-wide wickedness we see today.

2 Peter 3:3-15

 

Covenanter, what did the 7 thunders say in Revelation 10:4?

       And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

 

Who was the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3?

     And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

[Covenanter]

Covenanter, what did the 7 thunders say in Revelation 10:4?
       And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
 
Who was the two witnesses in Revelation 11:3?
     And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

Why are there more questions than answers????

Thunder is usually God speaking from heaven. At Sinai the people were terrified, so God spoke through Moses. In Deuteronomy 18 God promises that the Messiah will be one of them, so as not to terrify them. When God answered Jesus from heaven in John 12, some heard the voice, others heard thunder. At Pentecost, some heard the wonderful works of God, others dismissed what they heard as drunken babbling.

Revelation 11 makes it very clear that the prophecy predates the destruction, and relates to it. Jesus gave explicit warnings, spelled out in the last week. Do they need a voice from heaven? They have God's word spoken by Moses and the Prophets, and by Jesus and the Apostles. They have rejected every word from God, and persecuted and expelled his servants. What remains but final destruction, as prophesied by Moses, Jesus and Peter. Acts 3.

The 2 witnesses are symbolically Moses and Elijah - the Law and the Prophets. Persistently rejected by the Jewish leaders. They even rejected the resurrection of the Son of God. Luke 16:29-31 They can reject and burn the word, and reject and stone the Prophets, but the Word stands, and witnesses against them. The glory they can give is to acknowledge the righteous judgment of God, though there was even yet time to repent, though not to avert the prophesied destruction.

The Word of the Witnesses was vindicated by the accuracy of the prophecy.

Remember the great tribulation would afflict the generation that rejected Jesus before the destruction.

[Standing Firm In Christ]

I believe the two witnesses to be Enoch and Elijah... the only two men in the history of the human race that never died.

Hebrews 9:27 (KJV) 27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

[DaveW]

Rev 11:3  And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. 

Rev 11:4  These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth. 

Rev 11:5  And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. 

Rev 11:6  These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will. 

Rev 11:7  And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them. 

Rev 11:8  And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. 

Rev 11:9  And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves. 

Rev 11:10  And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth. 

Rev 11:11  And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them. 

Rev 11:12  And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 

Rev 11:13  And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven. 

 

 

Hmmm - doesn't look to me like they are "the Law and the Prophets", but two actual men who "shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth".

 

And the events recorded earlier in the book of Revelation don't appear to have happened either......

[MountainChristian]

Why are there more questions than answers????

Thunder is usually God speaking from heaven. At Sinai the people were terrified, so God spoke through Moses. In Deuteronomy 18 God promises that the Messiah will be one of them, so as not to terrify them. When God answered Jesus from heaven in John 12, some heard the voice, others heard thunder. At Pentecost, some heard the wonderful works of God, others dismissed what they heard as drunken babbling.

Revelation 11 makes it very clear that the prophecy predates the destruction, and relates to it. Jesus gave explicit warnings, spelled out in the last week. Do they need a voice from heaven? They have God's word spoken by Moses and the Prophets, and by Jesus and the Apostles. They have rejected every word from God, and persecuted and expelled his servants. What remains but final destruction, as prophesied by Moses, Jesus and Peter. Acts 3.

The 2 witnesses are symbolically Moses and Elijah - the Law and the Prophets. Persistently rejected by the Jewish leaders. They even rejected the resurrection of the Son of God. Luke 16:29-31 They can reject and burn the word, and reject and stone the Prophets, but the Word stands, and witnesses against them. The glory they can give is to acknowledge the righteous judgment of God, though there was even yet time to repent, though not to avert the prophesied destruction.

The Word of the Witnesses was vindicated by the accuracy of the prophecy.

Remember the great tribulation would afflict the generation that rejected Jesus before the destruction.

 

I thought you would know what was said, being you say it happened in 70AD. 

[Covenanter]

I thought you would know what was said, being you say it happened in 70AD.

I wasn't there, and John wasn't allowed to write it down. Why should I know?
What do you think of my post?

[MountainChristian]

I wasn't there, and John wasn't allowed to write it down. Why should I know?
What do you think of my post?

 

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.

5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

 

Did that happen in 70 AD?