Members RSS Robot Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Established in 1974, Way of Life Literature is a fundamental Baptist preaching and publishing ministry based in Bethel Baptist Church, London, Ontario, of which Wilbert Unger is the founding Pastor. View the full article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted August 28, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 28, 2014 Interested in reading the discussion this will bring. I'm going to hold off on any other comments for now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MountainChristian Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Has anyone ever heard that before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Has anyone ever heard that before?Yes, often. It is the "reductio ad absurdum" of premil teaching. He makes an excellent case for amil teaching and covenant theology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted August 28, 2014 Members Share Posted August 28, 2014 Mike, I'm looking forward to your input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 The article shows the way human logic can go way beyond Scripture. He ignores many OBvious questions: When does/did the millennium begin? How did Jesus and his Apostles handle OT prophecy? Who comprise Abraham's seed? Aka "Israel"? What do Jesus and his Apostles teach about the future of Israel as a nation, as distinct from Israel as the believing people of God? Is Psalm 2 for future fulfilment? See Rom. 1 & Hebrews 1. When is the resurrection? Bear in mind that the LAST enemy is death. Why is a yet future millennium NOT taught in Gospels nor Epistles? When Jesus returns, the dead will be raised to glory and the wicked condemned. John 5, 2 Thessalonians 1. The millennium is now. Look around. Can we see the final rebellion after 2 millennia of the Gospel? God is gracious, but his patience will end, with resurrection and judgment and the NH&NE, not with another millennium culminating in the same world-wide wickedness we see today. 2 Peter 3:3-15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 The article shows the way human logic can go way beyond Scripture. He ignores many OBvious questions: When does/did the millennium begin? How did Jesus and his Apostles handle OT prophecy? Who comprise Abraham's seed? Aka "Israel"? What do Jesus and his Apostles teach about the future of Israel as a nation, as distinct from Israel as the believing people of God? Is Psalm 2 for future fulfilment? See Rom. 1 & Hebrews 1. When is the resurrection? Bear in mind that the LAST enemy is death. Why is a yet future millennium NOT taught in Gospels nor Epistles? When Jesus returns, the dead will be raised to glory and the wicked condemned. John 5, 2 Thessalonians 1. The millennium is now. Look around. Can we see the final rebellion after 2 millennia of the Gospel? God is gracious, but his patience will end, with resurrection and judgment and the NH&NE, not with another millennium culminating in the same world-wide wickedness we see today. 2 Peter 3:3-15 Abraham's seed is not = to "Israel". Abraham's seed includes : Arabs Edomites Israel All who have faith in God JacOB's seed = Israel. Rightly divide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 The Millennium is not now..... The Bible plainly lays out a number of things that occur before the millennium, and there is no historical record of these things being fulfilled. That is aside from the OBvious attributes of the Millenium that are not present today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 Can anyone point me to the references in the Gospels and Epistles where a millennium is taught? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members No Nicolaitans Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 I agree with the events described; I don't necessarily agree with some of the flowery literary artistic license added to it. Such as... Â Â The malcontents, afraid to express their lusts and longings openly, will begin to congregate at the far reaches of the planet, as far from the central Glory as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 Can anyone point me to the references in the Gospels and Epistles where a millennium is taught? A separate 1,000 year "Millennium" was not revealed until Revelation, however a restoration of the earth with Messiah ruling from Jerusalem is throughout the Old Testament. The need for a Millennium is a "final solution" to the prOBlem of sin so that God can dwell with man and the universe be filled with righteousness.  Peter's sermon to Israel in Acts 3:18-21 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 Can anyone point me to the references in the Gospels and Epistles where a millennium is taught? A separate 1,000 year "Millennium" was not revealed until Revelation, however a restoration of the earth with Messiah ruling from Jerusalem is throughout the Old Testament. The need for a Millennium is a "final solution" to the prOBlem of sin so that God can dwell with man and the universe be filled with righteousness. Peter's sermon to Israel in Acts 3:18-21But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. That is extraordinary. The millennial teaching is given a central place in today's "end times" teaching, yet has no place in Gospels nor Epistles. There is no space for sinners to exist in the Kingdom after Jesus' coming for resurrection and judgment. Read to the end of Acts 3:22-26 and see there is no future for unrepentant Israel. Only the believers now comprise the people of God. The glorious OT prophecies concern only God's redeemed people. "All families on earth." All nations. Galatians 3:26-29 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Ukulelemike Posted August 30, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 30, 2014 That is extraordinary. The millennial teaching is given a central place in today's "end times" teaching, yet has no place in Gospels nor Epistles. There is no space for sinners to exist in the Kingdom after Jesus' coming for resurrection and judgment. Read to the end of Acts 3:22-26 and see there is no future for unrepentant Israel. Only the believers now comprise the people of God. The glorious OT prophecies concern only God's redeemed people. "All families on earth." All nations. Galatians 3:26-29 Â The Gospels are the completion of the OT and beginning of the New, and the milennial time is not in focus. Â The Epistles were written primarily concerning the 'here and now' of the churches-how to live, salvation, OBedience. There is some prophecy, but that is never the primary focus. Â The Revelation is just that: a book of prophecy, the only prophectic, (completely) book of the New Testament. That s the primary place the future reign of Christ needed to be dealt with. It is in agreement with many OT books, the best and clearest example I believe to be Zechariah, particularly Ch14. That's why we take everything together-we can't pick the Bible apart-the Lord gave us all He wanted us to have, in ther proper places and contexts, and that is how we take it. If there is no menton of one thing in some places, that's no big deal, because its still in scripture, right where the Lord wants it. Â As for sinners in the new kingdom, no place for them? The same kingdowm where we read that Jesus rules with a rod of iron? No need for an iron rod for a kingdom full of OBedient believers. And why do we see many rebel againt Christ, to be destroyed by the Lord? Apparently there will be sinners there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members beameup Posted August 30, 2014 Members Share Posted August 30, 2014 That is extraordinary. The millennial teaching is given a central place in today's "end times" teaching, yet has no place in Gospels nor Epistles. There is no space for sinners to exist in the Kingdom after Jesus' coming for resurrection and judgment. Read to the end of Acts 3:22-26 and see there is no future for unrepentant Israel. Only the believers now comprise the people of God. The glorious OT prophecies concern only God's redeemed people. "All families on earth." All nations. Galatians 3:26-29 The Millennial Kingdom is alluded to in the Old Testament. For example, in an earth that is still occupied by sinners, Micah address that as follows:  And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of JacOB; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of [ie: from] Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4:2  OBviously this is before the New Heavens and New Earth, wherein dwells righteousness.  Now, those of the 4th Century Catholic "Replacement Theology" will say this has "already been fulfilled" (preterism), or that it is "allegorical or symbolic" (aka: Augustine of Hippo and Adamiticus Origen), not to mention the doctrine of "spiritual Israel" (where the Church replaces O.T. references to "Israel", and true Israel is forever cut-off from God). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Covenanter Posted August 31, 2014 Members Share Posted August 31, 2014 The Millennial Kingdom is alluded to in the Old Testament. For example, in an earth that is still occupied by sinners, Micah address that as follows:  And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of JacOB; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of [ie: from] Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Micah 4:2  OBviously this is before the New Heavens and New Earth, wherein dwells righteousness.  Now, those of the 4th Century Catholic "Replacement Theology" will say this has "already been fulfilled" (preterism), or that it is "allegorical or symbolic" (aka: Augustine of Hippo and Adamiticus Origen), not to mention the doctrine of "spiritual Israel" (where the Church replaces O.T. references to "Israel", and true Israel is forever cut-off from God). The Kingdom ruled by Messiah is taught in the OT, not clearly a millennial kingdom. The question is "to what extent is the present Gospel age the prophesied Kingdom, where such prophecies are fulfilled by the salvation of many from the nations before the perfect fulfilment in the resurrection? Does Scripture require a further intermediate kingdom age?"  We need to see how Jesus & his Apostles understood OT prophecy. After the Jewish leaders rejected the Apostolic Gospel, the true, heavenly Jerusalem was the focus. (Gal. 4, Heb.12) And even before, Jesus explained to the Samaritan woman that true worship was wherever believers worshipped in Spirit & in truth. (John 4) We do see a spiritual understanding of OT prophecy.  True Israel comprises believing Jews, together with grafted in believing Gentiles, generally understood as the church - as the Pentecostal Jewish converts were called. (Acts 2) The church certainly never excludes true Jews. Nor are the people of God, my people, exclusively Jews. (Hosea 1, 2 Cor. 6, Rom. 9) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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