Members DaveW Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 If I meet someone and say to them "Ford is better than Chevy because Ford made the car available to the average man, they beat Ferrari at Le Mans, they had the fastest accelerating car in the world in 1967, they made the fastest four door sedan in the world in 1971, and if you say otherwise then you are wrong", what sort of reaction do you think I will get? Those are all facts by the way - they are true. But there will not be discussion and the other person will walk away not having learned but thinking I am mean and unwilling to discuss. It gets worse if when they try to answer me, I just say "No you are wrong and I am right". You may not see it this way, but that is the way you come across. And again - it has nothing to do with being right or wrong. In fact, I have never taught the tithe as a burden on the saved, but you blanket accuse "Baptist preachers" of preaching something I personally have never taught and in fact never personally heard anyone teach. I find it offensive that you make this charge which is not true of the majority of baptists, and then argue so vehemently against such people. I also think that to teach the tithe as a necessity is not biblical. You would have far better success by keeping you answers shorter and simply answering the points as they come up. You are not allowing people to question, to wonder, or to present an argument. You pre-empt arguments that people are not making. People learn better by asking questions and getting simple answers. I guarantee the vast majority of people don't read your posts on tithing. Which is a shame because you have some good information to share. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Or... the other person may present the facts about the Chevrolet and tell why he believes the Chevy to be superior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Actually, didn't name any certain denomination. I said many pastors. I didn't say "all" either. You are reading into my texts what isn't there, much like many preachers read into Malachi 3:8-10 what isn't there. And can you be certain that it is not true with with the majority of Baptists? Wouldn't you have had to visit every single Baptist Church in the world and calculate the percentage that teach God requires the monetary tithe? The fact is, I have researched many Churches from many denominations and that is why I say "many preachers." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 It is because of attacks like yours that threads end up getting locked, Dave. I never named a denomination in the thread. I never said "all pastors. Yet you come in accusing me of doing such. Please read my posts more carefully before you falsely accuse as you have done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members DaveW Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 I was trying to assist you to better relate your position....... Proverbs 9:9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 False accusations do not help at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 I had been conversing, allowing both Jordan, who started the thread, and Jim to share. And even wretched came in and shared. I did not tell them they couldn't. Nor do I think I sent a message that was saying they couldn't. I welcome anyone with opposing views to share Scripture. If I am wrong in my view, I am willing to change. Thus far, none have given any evidence to prove me wrong. Care to try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mat. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Your first verse is addressing Israelites, in Israel, before the death of the Testator. At His death, the earthly priesthood was disolved, the Law disanulled, and Hebrews 7 uses the Law of paying a tithe as an example of this. Your 2nd verse was written to a NT church, concerning collecting money to be given to destitute Saints at another church. Every single monetary cent, collected in the NT churches, was used to provide for the physical needs of Saints. Period. 1Co 16:1-3 1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye. 2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. 3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem. This was a one time situation, not a weekly ritual. Context is your friend. It is called "rightly dividing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Malachi 3 was not speaking of a monetary tithe. If it was then God proves Himself to be unfaithful to his promise associated with the commanded tithe. Sorry, but that tithe was agricultural, and was not to the Church. Read verse 6 to see who it was to. Further, the Church is not the storehouse. Mal 1:1 1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members prophet1 Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Yes, those "pastors" (another non-scriptural practice), who have ignored this: Act 20:33-35 33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel. 34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me. 35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive. And this: Eph 4:28 28 Let him that stole steal no more:but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. they, instead of labouring with their hands in a trade, so that they can give to the needy Saints, rather live off of money extorted from those needy through threatening with curses that do not apply to the Saints at all. Gal 3:10 10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse:for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. Gal 3:13 13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us:for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: And here the Law is given a definite timetable of effectiveness: from Hagar (Sinai), to the death of Jesus: Gal 3:19 19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Gal 3:24-25 24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. Teaching the Malachi curse to born-again Gentiles , after the Veil was rent in twain, is as blasphemous as teaching that Jesus' death was of none effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members John81 Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 From the beginning of Christianity we can look from Acts, to the Epistles, to Revelation, and there is no command at all to tithe; not modification of the OT Jewish tithe, no call to tithe. What we do so is Christians giving willingly, most often giving abundantly, and some even going to great effort to give. Â In the NT Christians are told to give cheerfully and not out of compulsion (a command to tithe would be a compulsion), and we see examples of the early Christians doing this. Â When Ananias and Sapphira gave a portion of land sale money, claiming they gave all, Peter pointed out that after the sale, the money was theirs to do with as they pleased. Peter didn't admonish them by saying they only needed to give a tithe and they could have kept the rest. No, he was clear the whole amount was theirs to do with as they wished. Their only violation in regards to their giving had to do with their deceit, lying about what they gave. Â God expects Christians to give out of hearts of love, not because they have to meet a specific requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mal 1:1 1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi.yes, I knew 1:1 would also show who was being addressed. I referred to 3:6 because it specifically says sons of JacOB and is closer to the verse commanding the tithe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Salyan Posted August 26, 2014 Moderators Share Posted August 26, 2014 I had been conversing, allowing both Jordan, who started the thread, and Jim to share. And even wretched came in and shared. I did not tell them they couldn't. Nor do I think I sent a message that was saying they couldn't. I welcome anyone with opposing views to share Scripture. If I am wrong in my view, I am willing to change. Thus far, none have given any evidence to prove me wrong. Care to try?  I don't want to try. I don't care to be lambasted over the head. Can't we just have a nice calm discussion on this subject? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 26, 2014 Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 I've been calm. Dave started with the attacks and false accusations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators HappyChristian Posted August 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 26, 2014 Sorry, SFIC, but his "accusations" are not what gets these threads closed (and they aren't false, either...).  You have been calm so far, but you aren't always, nor even usually (and I'm sure it's because you feel passionate about what you post).  Most of the time when these threads are closed it is simply because you become unnecessarily brusque - which is not a characteristic a teacher of scripture should have.   A "conversation" requires more than one person posting post after post after post...  Just sayin"...  So, let's see if we can have a discussion rather than a browbeating - everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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