Members Jordan Kurecki Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 is Tithing for the New Testament believer? Why or why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 It is weak to use Abram's tithe to Melchizedek as proof that we are supposed to tithe today. A diligent study of the Scripture will reveal that Abram is never said to have tithed his own property in the Word of God. Did he not tell Bera that he had lifted his hand to God, telling Him that he would not keep any of the spoils for himself? And did God not tell Abram after that meeting in Chaveh "I am thy exceeding great reward"? Abram cannot be used as an example that we should be tithing today, as that which Abram tithed was the property of anther person. A study of ancient history will uncover for you a possible reason why Abram tithed those spoils of war. As far back as 2200 BC, the ancient Babylonians were tithing war spoils to kings after a victorious battle. Abram was originally from Ur of the Chaldees, a region of Babylonia. He would have known the practice, since ity had been taking place as far back as 287 years prior to his meeting with Melchizedek at the Valley of Chaveh. As to JacOB's tithe, it was not done by him. It was done by his children who came out of Egypt and entered the Promised Land. Read Genesis 28 carefully. Pay special attention to verses 13-15 and then JacOB's vow . What JacOB vowed, was not to give a tenth of his income. It was to give a tenth of the land back to God that God promised to give him. And what did God command of the children of Israel? A tenth of the land. Leviticus 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. Leviticus 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. Leviticus 27:32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. Leviticus 27:33 He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. Leviticus 27:34 These are the commandments, which the LORD commanded Moses for the children of Israel in mount Sinai. Now, notice that God never commanded a tithe of income. He commanded a tithe of the seed of the land, the fruit of the tree, and of every tenth animal to pass under the rod. Remember Psalm 147:19-20, Acts 15:10,23-29, & 21:23-25. We are under no command, nor OBligation to tithe our money today. Since there is no command in the Word of God for man to tithe his money, who commands it. What did Jesus say of the Pharisees who were teaching man-made commandments as if they were doctrines from God? Matthew 15:9 (KJV) 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 Until someone produces Scripture that says the Church is authorized to teach and receive monetary tithes, they'll never convince me that it is to be so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted August 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 I am starting to rethink this whole tithing thing. While I do recognize that Abraham and JacOB are said to have tithed, it seems that they chose to do so out of freewill rather than OBligation, I do not believe it was because of any rule or law, I see Old Testament Tithing and have noticed that it was mainly livestock and stuff that was grown like fruits etc, it was almost never monetary, I see this as a ceremonial law that was done away with in Christ. But I do notice that the N.T. commands that God loves a cheerful giver, and that he sows bountifully shall reap bountifully in the area of giving, but it also says a giver should give as he purposes in his heart (these are all found in 1 Cor 9:6-7) and it also says NOT OF NECESSITY, this seems to me that to teach others a mandatory tithe of 10 percent is not right. With this being said I believe there are prOBably a good handful of people that use this as an argument not to give to the church, I believe the people ought to give what they can,as God leads, in order to pay for their pastor, support missionaries, and for the general ministries of the church. I do believe that the 10 percent tithe in the Old Testament Law is a good example for people to start, and I would be surprised if God did not call for individuals to go higher, I think there ought to be times where we give even though it may not make sense financially, Christians ought to be givers, I'm thinking it's prOBably better to preach about giving in general, explain the purposes for giving, and explain that because we are under grace, that there is no reason why anyone should not be able to start at 10 percent, but I don't know if I quite feel comfortable in telling people that if they don't give at least 10 percent that they are sinning.. these are not my definite final beliefs, these are just some early thoughts I am having as I am rehashing this and critically examining the mandatory tithe I have been taught. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 Actually Jordan, it was never monetary. Leviticus 27 says if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithe... The word redeem means to buy back. This indicates that tithing had to be OBserved, but the farmer had the choice of buying back the tithe if he chose so to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted August 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. it also seems to me that our giving ought to be in proportion to what we earn. Personally I have chosen a percentage amount. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 Jordan, notice the last place in the Bible where we see the tithe commanded... Hebrews 7:5-8. The command is not for the Church, it is for the sons of Levi. And it is still according to the Law. Agricultural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. it also seems to me that our giving ought to be in proportion to what we earn. Personally I have chosen a percentage amount.the word proportion is not in that verse at all. The word prospered is. Prospered Greek euodoo, is defined as, to help on the road. As God has helped us, we are to have the spirit of giving so as to help others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 If you have chosen a percentage because you feel that is what God has laid on your heart to give, wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted August 25, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 the word proportion is not in that verse at all. The word prospered is. Prospered Greek euodoo, is defined as, to help on the road. As god has helped as, we are to have the spirit of giving so as to help others. AS God hath prospered.. You give as or in proportion to God prospered to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 Had Paul meant proportion, he would have used the Greek for proportion... analogia. He did not. He used euodoo, which means to grant a prosperous and expeditious journey, to lead by a direct and easy way to grant a successful issue, to cause to prosper to prosper, be successful Prospered in 1 Corinthians 16 had absolutely nothing to do with proportion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted August 25, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 25, 2014 Mat. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Standing Firm In Christ Posted August 25, 2014 Members Share Posted August 25, 2014 Mat. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Exegeting Matthew 23:23 by Ronald W ROBey Woe to you, (sorrows, calamities) scribes (lawyers) and Pharisees (religious leaders) Hypocrites! (actors; those who put on a pretense) For ye tithe mint, and anise, and cummin (you give a tenth of your garden products) and have neglected (you've failed to OBserve) the weightier matters (more important things) of the Law (the Mosaic Law) Judgment, Mercy and Faith These (tithes of garden products) ought ye to have done (you should have done) and not to leave the others undone (Judgment, Mercy and Faith) The Mosaic Law stated that God's holy tithe was crops and livestock in the land of Israel. Jesus was commending the scribes and Pharisees for keeping the command concerning tithes (tithing mint, anise and cummin) and said they should be doing exactly what they were doing. Why? Because that is what the Law required, and as citizens of the land to which the Law applied, it was their duty to OBey the Mosaic Law given to Israel just as we are to OBey the laws in the state/county in which we live today. Leviticus 27:30-33 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD'S: it is holy unto the LORD. And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof. And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the LORD. He shall not search whether it be good or bad, neither shall he change it: and if he change it at all, then both it and the change thereof shall be holy; it shall not be redeemed. Deuteronomy 12:1 These are the statutes and judgments, which ye shall OBserve to do in the land, which the LORD God of thy fathers giveth thee to possess it, all the days that ye live upon the earth. Deuteronomy 12:6 And thither ye shall bring your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, and your tithes, and heave offerings of your hand, and your vows, and your freewill offerings, and the firstlings of your herds and of your flocks: The Mosaic Law commanded tithes of crops and livestock. (Notice in this verse God made a distinction between firstlings and tithes. So much for the claim that firstborn animals were tithes. LOL) Deuteronomy 12:8 Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes. Man could not do what seemed right in his own eyes. The tithe was crops and livestock, not money. Man was forbidden to tithe money. Jesus was not saying 'tithe money in Matthew 23:23. Not at all. He was saying continue tithing that which the Law requires. That is proper exegesis of Matthew 23:23. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Jordan Kurecki Posted August 26, 2014 Author Members Share Posted August 26, 2014 Mat. 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone. 1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. Jesus was speaking to people still under mosaic law. you cannot use that to teach N.T. tithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Jim_Alaska Posted August 26, 2014 Administrators Share Posted August 26, 2014 Of course each man must believe as The Lord leads him. I would never deny anyone their option of being led of the Spirit either to do, or not to do, regarding any spiritual matter. But speaking solely for myself, I choose to give according as God has prospered me. For that is my conviction according as I feel led by the Spirit. 2Cor. 9:7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. Again speaking solely for myself, I choose to support my local church and therefore the furtherance of the Gospel in this world. I take no offence at the word "tithe" and choose to believe that it is God's method of financing His work. In this context I see a wonderful blessing promised in this Scripture: Mal. 3:10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it. I know that this is O.T. but then the N.T. speaks in this manner: Rom.15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. For my part, I couldn't even imagine a conversation with Jesus wherein I am arguing against tithing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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